IO-360 A1A Oil pressure

[Guest]

Just now, MikeOH said:

Perfect!

Thank you!

Do I have to drain the oil to inspect, or is it above the oil level in the sump?

Yes, you have to drain the oil sump first.  Then you’ll need an MS35769-21 gasket when you reinstall the screen and end cap.  Safety wiring it is a challenge at times.

Clarence

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Yes, you have to drain the oil sump first.  Then you’ll need an MS35769-21 gasket when you reinstall the screen and end cap.  Safety wiring it is a challenge at times.

Clarence

Thank you!

I'll work with my mechanic on this on the next oil change if running at 7 qts doesn't change anything.

[1964-M20E]

10 hours ago, M20Doc said:

This picture is from someone on MS.  I circled the suction screen.  It is under the 5/8” nut on the back right side of the oil sump.

Clarence

Doc

It's not that hard to get to look it is right out there in the open.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Doc

It's not that hard to get to look it is right out there in the open.

Removing the engine certainly makes it easier, something I hadn’t thought of before!

Clarence

[DaV8or]

On 9/25/2018 at 9:23 AM, M20Doc said:

Removing the engine certainly makes it easier, something I hadn’t thought of before!

Clarence

You know, the more I work on my Mooney, the more I realize how much somebody has to invent a quick release engine mount system!  It is painfully (literally) obvious that Al Mooney loved efficiency, but hated mechanics.

Edited September 27, 2018 by DaV8or

[Guest]

8 hours ago, DaV8or said:

You know, the more I work on my Mooney, the more I realize how much somebody has to invent a quick release engine mount system!  It is painfully (literally) obvious that Al Mooney loved efficiency, but hated mechanics.

I think the screen was put there to keep owners away from their engines and guarantee work for maintainers.

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

I think the screen was put there to keep owners away from their engines and guarantee work for maintainers.

I thought it was a relict from the days before they had oil filters?
I only have it pulled at annual, and by trained mechanics who I assume can do this blindfolded since it appears in some cases that’s what they have to do.

[jetdriven]

the older engines have a filter screen on the accessory case, instead of a filter. But the sump screen has larger openings and is meant to keep larger pieces out of the oil pump. 

[DaV8or]

5 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I think the screen was put there to keep owners away from their engines and guarantee work for maintainers.

Clarence

Well, it doesn't work because it's such a PITA that all the MSCs I've taken it to haven't bothered with it and when I mentioned it, they all say- "Don't bother. It's a lot of work and nothing is ever in there, but we can do it if you really want us to."

I checked my logs for the engine since it was last rebuilt, which goes back before I owned it and no shop has ever logged checking this screen. Maybe it was done and they didn't log it? Either way, I don't think shops are making much money off this thing.

[FastTex]

Ok. Here is another chart of my OIL P and T. I think the OIL P is better after setting the regulator higher. Do I need to be concerned about the high OIL T during take off and climb?

Does it look similar on yours?

CHT looks great (MAX 353F).

Note: this was not a typical flight since I flew with a CFI to complete my IFR approached for the semester and did a few stalls and other maneuvers...

 

[takair]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 2:20 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

I have found if it twitches, you are drawing air into the pickup. Whenever a bubble is sucked in it causes the twitch. Try adding more oil. If that doesn’t stop it inspect your inlet screen.

In one extreme situation, I had a customer who reported oil pressure going near zero on occasion, then back to normal.  The details escape me at the moment, but as I recall, someone had previously removed the accessory housing while engine was on aircraft (not a Mooney).  The oil passage transitions from the sump to the housing through the sump gasket (this is where my recollection is not perfect).  Anyway, they had used RTV in an attempt to reuse the gasket.  I noticed RTV squeezed out and we realized the RTV would allow air into the passage at high power causing the pump to cavitate.  This is an extreme situation, but might be a consideration if work was done on the accessory case and oil pressure pulses.  

[powder_hounder]

Mine stays in the 65-70 range until the oil gets hot, once it's up to 185-195 range for 20 mins or so, it settles down to right north of the yellow arc which I think is about 60-62 psi, see photo below.  Again this is the steam gauge I'm reading so not super accurate. But I know the gauge works well because when I blew a ring on #4 cyl at night over northern WI 5 years ago, when it dropped to about 30 psi it started the engine started doing funny things, lol. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by powder_hounder

[Cyril Gibb]

One more data point.  This has been a hot summer and I've been concerned with oil pressure near the bottom of the green and temps near the top of the green, particularly (obviously) on a long climb.  In cruise, less of an issue.

We (royal we) added 2 washers to the stack.  Oil pressure and temps are now consistently in the middle of the greens in all configurations (climb/cruise) once the temps stabilise.

One big surprise is that for any  given OAT and power setting, the CHTs on all 4 cyls are down about 20F.  More oil spray to the underside of the pistons?  More oil cooling the heads?

No change in oil burn.

[Ragsf15e]

On 9/22/2018 at 4:13 PM, MikeOH said:

Slight thread creep question:

Not sure if this has been going on since I bought my plane last year, but yesterday I was watching my oil pressure gauge for 5 to 10 seconds, rather than just a glance, and noticed it 'twitches' every few seconds, as does my Insigt G3; maybe a 3 psi change rather than a steady reading.

Normal? Anything to worry about?

Thanks!

Mike, did you ever resolve this?

[MikeOH]

34 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Mike, did you ever resolve this?

No, not really.  I suspect it's always been going on and it hasn't become any worse.

I was more concerned with low pressure (right around 60 psi), but that was addressed in February at my last annual; my A&P found that the G3 was picking up oil pressure at the FRONT of the engine rather than where the factory gauge picks up.  He created a tee at the factory location and relocated the G3's sensor.  Upped by 10 psi.

[A64Pilot]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:58 PM, DaV8or said:

You know, the more I work on my Mooney, the more I realize how much somebody has to invent a quick release engine mount system!  It is painfully (literally) obvious that Al Mooney loved efficiency, but hated mechanics.

For aircraft,that would even the Germans in the 1930’s with the ME-109. 

Supposedly they could exchange an engine that was already built up of course in less than 30 min, well less than 30 min.

‘For an Automobile that would also be the Germans with the old VW, the engine hung off the transmission on only three bolts, the fourth bolt doubled as one of the bolts that held the starter in, For years there used to be a competition to drive a VW like 50 ft, R&R the engine and drive it back. It used to be done in less than 5 min I think.

‘I had a 71 bug and a 71 Westfslia, I learned for anything difficult it was faster and easier to just drop the motor as opposed to trying to work under the car.

Guiness world record for R&R a VW air cooled engine 

 

And,how to change a fan belt on a VW air cooled engine 

 

[Raymond J1]

For issues of thermal runaway, it was BMW that imposed on Focke-wulf the supply of complete engines, with adjusted cowlings, to be installed on the airframe by its technicians (FW 190).

[carusoam]

Sensor location is everything...

When it comes to oil pressure sensor noise...

The OilP sensor has a calibrated hole in the line...  this hole is called the snubber...

The snubber is sized to minimize the pressure oscillations in the oil line...

There is a procedure to follow to make sure there is air in the line for the snubber to work properly...

So... if you get a moving needle when you expect it to be steady... check the snubber set up procedure on the OilP sensing system...

PP thoughts only, some snubbers are a device that is added right on the gauge where the oil line comes in...

-a-

[Guest]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:41 AM, MikeOH said:

No, not really.  I suspect it's always been going on and it hasn't become any worse.

I was more concerned with low pressure (right around 60 psi), but that was addressed in February at my last annual; my A&P found that the G3 was picking up oil pressure at the FRONT of the engine rather than where the factory gauge picks up.  He created a tee at the factory location and relocated the G3's sensor.  Upped by 10 psi.

New Cessna 172’s take their oil pressure reading from the front right oil gallery, where many of us install the JPI oil temperature probe.

Clarence

[MikeOH]

14 hours ago, M20Doc said:

New Cessna 172’s take their oil pressure reading from the front right oil gallery, where many of us install the JPI oil temperature probe.

Clarence

Yes, that's where my G3 temp probe is located.  The oil pressure sender was in the left front oil gallery; now it has a plug!

[A64Pilot]

I have tried on two different engines fo get one of those plugs out of the front of the engine and have stopped short when it felt like excessive force woud be required.

Is there a trick to it? a Hammer impact or heat or something?

[Andy95W]

Propane torch the aluminum case all around the plug good and hot.  Before the heat can transfer to the steel plug, tap the Allen wrench until it breaks free.

Id like to try the freeze spray on the plug after heating the case but don’t have any.