TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update

[MBDiagMan]

On 6/6/2020 at 8:18 PM, MilitaryAV8R said:

Once the Dynon autopilot is approved for us (and I get the wife on board) I will be installing the full Dynon package.

Hon the off chance that Dynon is approved by the FAA during my lifetime, how  much will the Dynon cost installed?

[MBDiagMan]

Every time I check this thread to see if the Trutrak has been approved I show how much of a chump I am for thinking that it will EVER be approved.

 

[drapo]

7 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Don’t hold your breath.  Garmin is not known for open interface with non Garmin products.

And not even upward compatible with their own products, like GNS series vs GTN!

[231MJ]

Jesse, you probably have good (reliable) contacts at Dynon.  What are they telling you about the certification of the autopilot?  They post that the certification might be by the end of this year - do you think that's close?  I took a chance and I'm having the HDX system installed hoping that the autopilot will be available in the next year or so (I can fly without the AP for a while but not for ever).  Hope I didn't mess this up.

[Jesse Saint]

I don’t have any special inside information, but they are in development now, and hopefully the FAA approval process will happen faster than it has for TruTrak/BK. 

[Sandman993]

Just this week I heard a couple announcements regarding new aircraft certification completions.  Maybe someone should give them a call and find out. 
When the paperwork is turned in, thought the FAA was supposed to respond in a given time frame. Seems like I read 45 days. On another note, I thought they were here to help make flying safer. How does having a 35 yr old, works some or most of the time autopilot help us to be safer?
 

if I didn’t know better, I might be thinking that garmin has preferred consideration... as I doubt they would be made to wait like this. But I’m so cynical these days, I can barely stand to be in the same room with myself. Can anyone sense how bitter I am about the way these feckless government agencies operate? 
 

Oh wait! Those college kids are outside trying to tare down my statue of me and the cops are telling me they just peaceful protesters.

 

[Sandman993]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:23 PM, Wes said:

Will true track fly an approach?

Sure it will... but you have to turn it off at like 700’ agl. It won’t land for you either.

since it won’t fly an ils... you could request the tower allow you to fly the gps LPV approach which typically is the same overlay. Can’t imagine them saying no. Or, you could just fly the gps approach for that runway and they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

Im so used to hand flying at least the altitude part of an approach as long as the thing can do lateral guidance, I’d be happy. Hope they get one certified while I’m still young. Well, not very young, so they need get off their butts.

[carusoam]

MS word of the day Feckless...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feckless
 

Way to go Sandman!

Building vocabulary by MS!

-a-

[Baker Avionics]

BTW, just literally got an email back from Andrew....see below:

 

We are trying to get the Mooney finished and after that we are planning to get the .................................................... product line.  .............. is probably after that.

 

Just got this info today.  Thought I would share!!!!

[McMooney]

tru-trak, garmin or dynon, whichever is first get's my money; dont' really care at this point.

 

wish i hadn't been a jerk to the Trio guy

[cliffy]

What has been the outcome of the Trio system? I guess I missed that one.

[Lionudakis]

I spoke to the Trio guys a few years ago at KOSH about using mine as a certification prototype, we had several Conference  calls after, and then crickets.  I’d heard from another mooney guy he had the same results.
 

It seemed a little off to me, like they got a prospect, but didn’t know what to do with it. 

[MoonFlyer68]

2 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

BTW, just literally got an email back from Andrew....see below:

 

We are trying to get the Mooney finished and after that we are planning to get the .................................................... product line.  .............. is probably after that.

 

Just got this info today.  Thought I would share!!!!

While I know this thread is about the Trio product, we have been talking about other ones like Dynon and Garmin.  This "Andrew" is a representative of which company?

[231MJ]

Greg Baker is an authorized installer of Dynon products and he has spoken favorably about Dynon in the past.  I believe (and sincerely hope) that he is talking about Dynon.  Jump in here, Greg.

[Sandman993]

4 hours ago, cliffy said:

What has been the outcome of the Trio system? I guess I missed that one.

I had a couple phone conversations with him about the time he was here, mentioned I would give him $10,000 to help with development. He said it wasn’t necessary and went on to say he thought Mooney people are different. Hell, I thought the bo nanzer crowd was different. I use the term different in both cases to be kind.

at any rate... I fear the trio ship has sailed, unless @carusoam is willing to send a couple cute lesbian pole dancers and a case of French wine ( California wine kinda sucks I hear) and trio is a cal based company.

does carusoam know any lesbian pole dancers? Asking for a friend...

[steingar]

Two years....

[Jesse Saint]

Andrew was to owner of TruTrak before he sold to Bendix King. 
 

The Dynon auto pilot is being developed, but it’s still up to the FAA how long The approval takes.
 

The only approval that has happened since COVID is the Garmin. Not much of a level playing field, it would appear. 

[MIm20c]

4 minutes ago, Jesse Saint said:

The only approval that has happened since COVID is the Garmin. Not much of a level playing field, it would appear. 

Garmin has been spending the necessary money to do free installs and necessary maintenance on tons of aircraft. They are putting the money up to get the job done and have procedures in place to provide a top performing system the the FAA can rely on. They’ve done this on countless certified airframes. Compare that to other companies that promised certification but required potential customers to try to get a one off approval that the company could run with. 
 

I wished Garmin would expand the network to include shops like yours. I’d drop my plane off ASAP at your shop if you had access to the g3x and gfc certified. 

[Navi]

10 hours ago, cliffy said:

What has been the outcome of the Trio system? I guess I missed that one.

Not much Cliffy.. I don't think you missed anything.. (!)

Over on the Piper Forums, there have been thousands of TTs installed, a couple  hundred Garmins, (estimated by the group) and 3 Trio's that I know of.

I posted a question on there about how the Trios have worked out, no replies...  Several Trios have been removed from 182s and PA-32s, their one choice of servo  apparently struggles with the heavier airframes...  (TT delayed the intro of their AP on the PA-32 to upgrade the system with heavier gear and more powerful servo setup. (the TT servo has adjustable torque, set at the factory)

Some shops have informed up front that they will NOT install the Trio...

This is all 3rd hand info, but seems consistent among the forums..

FWIW! 

Nav.

[Lionudakis]

4 minutes ago, Navi said:

Not much Cliffy.. I don't think you missed anything.. (!)

Over on the Piper Forums, there have been thousands of TTs installed, a couple  hundred Garmins, (estimated by the group) and 3 Trio's that I know of.

I posted a question on there about how the Trios have worked out, no replies...  Several Trios have been removed from 182s and PA-32s, their one choice of servo  apparently struggles with the heavier airframes...  (TT delayed the intro of their AP on the PA-32 to upgrade the system with heavier gear and more powerful servo setup. (the TT servo has adjustable torque, set at the factory)

Some shops have informed up front that they will NOT install the Trio...

This is all 3rd hand info, but seems consistent among the forums..

FWIW! 

Nav.

That's good to hear we might not have missed much !

[cliffy]

It seems by outward appearances that the FAA is taking an unduly long time on the TT for Mooneys. 

Granted resources have been shifted toward the 737 MAX and cautions might be in place on any approvals of anything that attaches to control surfaces BUT this is not a NEW system and thousands have been installed on other airframes. Its a proven commodity. 

COVID aside, they still have a job to do for the public at large. It seems that some companies have more of an advantage on certification than others. I wonder if that is true?

AT one time I was having a problem getting a VOR Check Point surveyed for our airport. After a year of phone calls and promises I went to the FAA trouble shooting hot line office for help. It is set up to help break through the bureaucratic log jams  preventing getting things done. After I filed my complaint with them I got my survey in a couple of weeks. 

I wonder what the ramifications would be to go to that office trying to get movement on the Mooney approval?

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by cliffy

[Baker Avionics]

10 hours ago, MilitaryAV8R said:

While I know this thread is about the Trio product, we have been talking about other ones like Dynon and Garmin.  This "Andrew" is a representative of which company?

This is about the TruTrak/Bendix King Autopilot update. Andrew is with TruTrak/Bendix King

[Baker Avionics]

9 hours ago, 231MJ said:

Greg Baker is an authorized installer of Dynon products and he has spoken favorably about Dynon in the past.  I believe (and sincerely hope) that he is talking about Dynon.  Jump in here, Greg.

Unfortunately/Fortunately I am speaking about the TruTrak and not the Dynon.  I cannot WAIT for the Dynon to be approved for the Mooney!  Dynon is so wonderful as is TruTrak!!!!

[Baker Avionics]

1 hour ago, Jesse Saint said:

Andrew was to owner of TruTrak before he sold to Bendix King. 
 

The Dynon auto pilot is being developed, but it’s still up to the FAA how long The approval takes.
 

The only approval that has happened since COVID is the Garmin. Not much of a level playing field, it would appear. 

I totally agree Jesse.

[Navi]

50 minutes ago, Lionudakis said:

That's good to hear we might not have missed much !

  No sleep to be lost over this one ..

The Trio project imploded early with an unsustainable business model, but does seem to continue to some extent...  but seems hard to get a feel for their market penetration if there is any at this time... There are installs, but few, and no user groups of threads on how to use/enhance the system like there are on the TT/BK.  The TT installs are in the thousands, and owners are wringing performance out of these systems that  Mr. Barker and company  never imagined.

TT/BK are jammed up with parts supply issues by this Covid thing, like so many others...

Post a question on the TT operation or what ever, and get lots of replies, Garmin will get some replies, Trio, none lately... 

Kinda a straw poll, but is seems to be what is happening...

Love to see the Dynon, but it appears that for the AP portion approval/STC, it appears to be a "start over" as NO AP parts or products were installed / included on the STC approvals to date... with the possible exception being the 172 

Nav

Edited June 25, 2020 by Navi