Is a CO Detector Superfluous in M20TN?

[exM20K]

The Acclaim draws its cabin heat not from the exhaust system, but rather from the intake system.  Is there any reason I'd want a CO detector other than to alert the normals taxi and high AOA CO levels from the exhaust? 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I've spent hundreds of hours in the flight levels with my Acclaim with the heat on and have never had a detector or any problems. Of course, I'm wearing an oxygen mask, which I'm guessing would afford some protection.

[mike_elliott]

Dan, 

A good CO detector is so cheap compared to the potential downside, why not just get one? While you make valid points about the TN drawing (what little) heat for the cabin from the intake, CO is not something to flirt with. You know that fire breathing TIO550 is making CO, and you would be well served to make sure you are alerted if it is getting to you via any path.

Here is a link, use discount code airport2017 for 20% off.

https://sensorcon-sensing-products-by-molex.myshopify.com/products/inspector-intrinsically-safe-carbon-monoxide-detector-co-meter?variant=4193484932

Disclaimer:

Sensorcon is a shameless sponsor of the Mooney Summit, where last year they supplied 5 of these for our raffle. Thanks Sensorcon. I understand Dan Bass is also speaking with Guardian CO to donate a few units this year.

[exM20K]

Thanks, guys.  Mike, I was actually going the other way: I have one of these that mostly sits in the seat back pocket unused and was considering selling it here.  Guess I'll keep it.  Safety Third is my motto!

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Safety Third is my motto!

I can't help but ask:  what in the world comes First and Second???

[mike_elliott]

4 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Thanks, guys.  Mike, I was actually going the other way: I have one of these that mostly sits in the seat back pocket unused and was considering selling it here.  Guess I'll keep it.  Safety Third is my motto!

Yea, I keep mine strapped onto my headset strap and fire it up every time I pull out the headset, especially when I am in an unfamiliar plane.

[carusoam]

Kind of like a seatbelt, no?

Two things come to mind, based on Bravo experience...

• where Mooney exhaust failures occur is the continuous thinning of the pipes that lead to the turbo...  high temp, high active chemical environment , under pressure...

-And-

• the Vband clamps that most everyone knows about... except the mechanic that worked on it last...

 

Of course there aren’t many Acclaim’s with high hours on the exhaust system... so it is difficult to point to exact situations and pics on MS....

Bill G. had the vband failure? Causing an open exhaust under the cowling of his ill fated Bravo ...

a CO monitor would start indicating such challenges before anything else, short of an inspection...

 

Of course, having the CO monitor on, where it can be seen, is better than in the back seat where it might not even get heard under some conditions...

 

Pp thoughts only.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

I bought my CO monitor as soon as Dan posted his story with the discount code. At my previous annual, I found I had been flying {for how long?] with a fist-sized hole in the bottom of the muffler . . . and of course my el cheapo "spot card" from Sportys never indicated anything . . . . .

[EricJ]

The motor and exhaust are still in front of the cabin, so there's still plenty of opportunity to get CO in the cabin.    Being in AZ, I don't use the heater that much, and the CO level never changes when I do.   It DOES change a lot sometimes though, and has alarmed on me on several occasions, all completely unrelated to the use of the cabin heat.   It goes off on the ground sometimes depending on which way the wind is blowing relative to the airplane, and if I'm going to be sitting there for a while it's a nice notice to change something (open a vent, the storm window, open or close the door, etc.), to change the circulation.   Usually that fixes it.   It's alarmed on me sevearal times in landing configuration, usually temporarily.    I still have no idea what's going on there.

Basically, in my experience it's a really nice thing to have for awareness and doesn't have that much to do with the heater.

 

[Stephen]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

I bought my CO monitor as soon as Dan posted his story with the discount code. At my previous annual, I found I had been flying {for how long?] with a fist-sized hole in the bottom of the muffler . . . and of course my el cheapo "spot card" from Sportys never indicated anything . . . . .

I just ordered one 5 minutes ago. 

[thinwing]

This annual ,one of the things we did was to reseal all three belly panels and replace missing grommet seal around tks overfill drain tube.This last item is directly in the exhaust flow which seems to adhere very closely to belly all the way to tail.This can be seen clearly by whitish lead deposits.This was cause of some fairly high CO levels especially on takeoff,cowl flaps fully open,full rich mixture ,high angle of attack.

[epsalant]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:38 PM, exM20K said:

The Acclaim draws its cabin heat not from the exhaust system, but rather from the intake system.  Is there any reason I'd want a CO detector other than to alert the normals taxi and high AOA CO levels from the exhaust? 

Crazy story, but CO detector saved my life (or maybe our nannies). I bought a new CO detector. Took it out of package, some Velcro on back, all set up for plane. Threw flight bag into laundry (HVAC) room.  Damn thing started alarming.  "Damn it ! I just bought it and it's going crazy."  Brought it into my office, it stopped alarming, I saw nothing wrong with it. Back in flight bag...flight bag into laundry room. Alarm say "High", meaning super high levels.  Repeated process.

Long story short...chimney totally clogged.

Now that's a good test !!!   

I read everything I could about CO poisoning (I had studied it in school and given a few lectures on it and how it relates to pulse oximetry etc).  Don't get too bent out of shape about an accurate CO monitor.  Just get one that can detect low levels.  Keep in mind OSHA lets people put in a 40 hr work week with levels somewhere in the 80 ppm level. In my plane I'm not scared of those levels IF I know where it's coming from (e.g. jet taxiing in front of me) and that it's getting better.  Shouldn't happen in flight.  Low levels during taxi with door open...ok...etc.

 

[carusoam]

We have had at least two MSers report finding CO since buying a sensor...

Some Stuff we learn on MS is truely usable in other parts of our lives... 

GO MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

Dan Bass will be at the Mooney Summit VI again this year following up on his "incident". Major Mari Metzler, flight surgeon for our F22 boys at Tyndal, will present on the physiology of CO. The Mooney Summit will have it's calibration kit at the Summit to calibrate your CO detector, (another deliverable of the Mooney Summit) and @Bob_Belville I dont know how to answer your question about your CO detector if it can be calibrated with our stuff, procedures would have to come from the mfrg of the unit.

 

[carusoam]

For Bob’s CO detector... bring it...

It may not be able to be calibrated, but there is a good chance it could be adequately tested....

PP Thinking out loud...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

On 5/21/2018 at 11:38 AM, exM20K said:

The Acclaim draws its cabin heat not from the exhaust system, but rather from the intake system.  Is there any reason I'd want a CO detector other than to alert the normals taxi and high AOA CO levels from the exhaust? 

For any G1000 Mooney including the Acclaim there’s a cool product from Guardian that can display on the G1000 or other MFD’s and might have the potential to save some lives.

https://www.guardianavionics.com/aero-455-panel-pulse-oximeter-co-detector-tso-certified-aircraft

[PeytonM]

Here’s a crazy story: I was sitting in my airplane in the hangar with my hangar and airplane door open, showing my friend my Sensorcon detector. Another airplane taxied from right to left in front of my hangar, about 30-40 feet away. My CO detector started to register CO within seconds, rising to over 30, beeping and flashing!