Insurance comparison M vs Ci

[Mcstealth]

The guys over at the Cirrus board say it is more expensive to insure a new Mooney than a new SR22 because of the complex landing gear. 

True or false?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Mcstealth

[LANCECASPER]

True - For most Cirrus Pilots.  It would be more expensive to insure a new Mooney since many of them have little or no retractable time. If you don't have retractable time the first year is going to be expensive in most cases.

Once you have some time it evens out. Usually +/- one per cent of the hull value is what people pay to insure the airplane. Then liability is additional to that. For Cirrus owners with some time I would think that their premium is very close to a Mooney owner with some time. Even if it was a little less on a Cirrus, once you factor in the "once every ten year" parachute expense any savings are gone.

[aviatoreb]

Cirrus is a lot of commendable things but less expensive is not one of them.  Noting insurance AND  maintenance.

Edited March 12, 2018 by aviatoreb

[carusoam]

Oddities in insurance costs...

A 30amu M20C and a 200amu M20R... cost about 1amu difference per year to insure the same way...

Both cost about the same to repair a GU landing... belly, prop, engine teardown...

Both cost the same to replace an errant pilot... and passengers... millions.

Maybe Mooney passengers cost more to replace?

The planes aren’t any less forgiving around the traffic pattern.  An errant stall from base to final is going to be disastrous... or does that cuffed wing save a few we don’t hear about?

Cirrus has the same porpoise problem in the landing phase. The third bounce, buries the nose wheel while completing the prop strike.

Cirrus has the same engines that Mooneys use...

Cirrus has the same humans that Mooneys use...

Whats the one difference... GU landings?

@Parker_Woodruff is our MS resident insurance expert from the short stint with USAA?

Mooneys are built to withstand a basic GU landing.  

Mooney pilots discuss and train the best ways to avoid GU landings.

Cirrus pilots discuss the price of insurance and how wonderful their world is...? 

Did they leave out the other issues that do effect the health and wellness of their pilots?

I know nothing about the prices of insurance for new Mooneys or new Cirri.

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

14 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

True - For most Cirrus Pilots.  It would be more expensive to insure a new Mooney since many of them have little or no retractable time. If you don't have retractable time the first year is going to be expensive in most cases.

Once you have some time it evens out. Usually +/- one per cent of the hull value is what people pay to insure the airplane. Then liability is additional to that. For Cirrus owners with some time I would think that their premium is very close to a Mooney owner with some time. Even if it was a little less on a Cirrus, once you factor in the "once every ten year" parachute expense any savings are gone.

Thanks. Makes sense. 

[Mooney in Oz]

My mechanical told me he has worked on a number of SR 22's that have suffered from serious overheating (cylinder) problems due to poor ventilation under the cowl basically caused by a very tight engine installation resulting in big $$ and offloading in the end.  I do not personally know any SR 22 owners to ask whether they have this problem and I'm not sure if they would admit to it.

 I would like see data comparing maintenance costs over say 1000 hours or 10 years between a SR 22 and an Acclaim.  That would be more realistic than irrelevant insurance comparisons.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Well I did work as an agent with Falcon, though not in the USAA department...

Now I'm on the underwriting side of the business.

Honestly, comparable rates for both aircraft can be found across the aviation insurance market.  Some companies have their various underwriting preferences, so one might be more expensive on C vs. M or vice versa.   Rates are historically low right now.  Not an utmost consideration when owning and operating a $150,000 to $750,000 ship.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Parker_Woodruff

[Mcstealth]

2 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Well I did work as an agent with Falcon, though not in the USAA department...

Now I'm on the underwriting side of the business.

Honestly, comparable rates for both aircraft can be found across the aviation insurance market.  Some companies have their various underwriting preferences, so one might be more expensive on C vs. M or vice versa.   Rates are historically low right now.  Not an utmost consideration when owning and operating a $150,000 to $750,000 ship.

So the Ci folks are stretching the truth Ala MSFOXCNMBC.  Just joking. No Politics allowed.

[KLRDMD]

On 3/11/2018 at 8:00 AM, Mcstealth said:

The guys over at the Cirrus board say it is more expensive to insure a new Mooney than a new SR22 because of the complex landing gear. 

True or false?

My data is about 10 years old now but I owned a Cirrus SR-22 and Mooney Bravo back to back. They had the same hull value. I paid about 50% more to insure the Cirrus than the Mooney. And the Cirrus cost much more in maintenance. The Cirrus was four years old with less than 500 hours total time when I bought it and the Mooney was 17 years old with 2,500 hours total time.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

My data is about 10 years old now but I owned a Cirrus SR-22 and Mooney Bravo back to back. They had the same hull value. I paid about 50% more to insure the Cirrus than the Mooney. And the Cirrus cost much more in maintenance. The Cirrus was four years old with less than 500 hours total time when I bought it and the Mooney was 17 years old with 2,500 hours total time.

The difference being, Ken, you had complex time when you insured the Mooney . . . . and Time In Type, which the typical new Cirrus pilot does not have. But 50% is a large margin! Similarly, the insurance on my little C fell by 50% the second year, after I put 100 hours on her the first year as a newbie, wet-certificate owner. Wonder how much it goes down for new, wet-certificate Cirrus owners with 100 hours in type?

[LANCECASPER]

Famous pilot Bob Hoover said "If you’re faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible."

I would guess that the average Cirrus claim is much more than a Mooney claim since when they pull the chute they lose control of where they are gong to put it down. If the airplane is not totaled, the chute itself is very expensive. Plus fixing the composite is more expensive and fewer shops are capable. I don't think I'd want one with damage history.

Most Mooney drivers that keep flying the airplane into the crash to an off airport landing have some control where they put it. A lot of these airplanes, especially J's and newer, end up getting fixed.

Even on gear-ups on a Mooney, which won't happen to a Cirrus, there usually isn't a lot of airframe damage. The prop and the engine teardown are much more expensive than the belly.