Raptor

[Missile=Awesome]

Naw.  Nosewheel up, but the mains didn’t break ground I don’t think.  Nice wheelie though...

 

[ChrisV]

They definitely got it off the ground, but you could only tell by the struts flexing later in the video.  I was so excited when I saw the title to the video, only to be disappointed after watching it.  I have high hopes for the raptor, but doubt it will get over 240kts TAS.  

 

[gsxrpilot]

Yeah the left main vibrated pretty good when it touched back down and there was a puff of smoke off the right main. They're taking bets over on Beechtalk if the test pilot will actually ever fly it.

[rainman]

I remain hopeful that this project will progress to flying planes for customers. My number in line is 97. The good news is I can keep flying my Mooney until that happens. I’m not an engineer, so someone tell me if that gear shimmy looks O.K.? Ray

[Hank]

1 hour ago, rainman said:

I remain hopeful that this project will progress to flying planes for customers. My number in line is 97. The good news is I can keep flying my Mooney until that happens. I’m not an engineer, so someone tell me if that gear shimmy looks O.K.? Ray

It shouldn't shimmy in flight.

          —BSME, MSE  [not an AE]

[The Other Red Baron]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

Like the Spruce Goose.., the Raptor has flown....

A few inches above the runway, for a few feet...

 

[Hank]

12 hours ago, ChrisV said:

They definitely got it off the ground, but you could only tell by the struts flexing later in the video.  I was so excited when I saw the title to the video, only to be disappointed after watching it.  I have high hopes for the raptor, but doubt it will get over 240kts TAS.  

 

Any idea why he reduced power before lifting the nose? Or why it was so long from advancing the throttle?

Although he did say he was going out for a short hop . . . . 

[carusoam]

Cut the throttle before raising the nose....

He expected to run out of runway if he stayed on the throttle past the halfway point, marked by the wind sock....

Also has noticed some inaccuracies in the air speed indicator, adding to the riskiness...

Has two test pilots on retainer... that seem to be a month out in the schedule...

Last time they visited... they requested reworking the entire yoke system...

Surprisingly, he didn’t just go to an existing plane, and borrow an existing system....

 

Colder days might make a better selection for initial test flights... best for engine and lift characteristics...

PP thoughts after watching the video...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

He's at a little airport with just one 5000 ft runway. Not ideal for testing airplanes. I'm sure there is a reason he chose this place, but it escapes me. There are lots of airports with almost no traffic but miles of runway. KAFW is just one example. 

If I'm a test pilot, I can't think of a much worse place to be flying an experimental, new design, for the very first time. But best of luck.

[The Other Red Baron]

I really want to see this guy succeed but... 3200lbs? It is a chunky munky for sure.. A Velocity XLRG  isn't that much.

[Pasturepilot]

23 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

He's at a little airport with just one 5000 ft runway. Not ideal for testing airplanes. I'm sure there is a reason he chose this place, but it escapes me. There are lots of airports with almost no traffic but miles of runway. KAFW is just one example. 

If I'm a test pilot, I can't think of a much worse place to be flying an experimental, new design, for the very first time. But best of luck.

 

I think it boils down to not having a ton of great airports on the north side of Atlanta. I live within the PDK class D ring, but cannot justify hangar rent there so I drive an hour west of ATL to my Mooney's home. 

If the guy lives north of Atlanta, the balance of airport/topography/hangar cost probably drove him up there. 

I have multiple friends and acquaintances with deposits down on the Raptor. While I'm always happy to cheer for the underdog, I've seen too many "too good to be true" airplanes fail to deliver - or worse - after promising low cost and astronomical performance. The Commuter Craft Innovator also comes to mind, and it ended with disaster several months ago. 

Here's hoping to see more good news from Cherokee County soon, though. 

[gsxrpilot]

38 minutes ago, Pasturepilot said:

I think it boils down to not having a ton of great airports on the north side of Atlanta. I live within the PDK class D ring, but cannot justify hangar rent there so I drive an hour west of ATL to my Mooney's home. 

If the guy lives north of Atlanta, the balance of airport/topography/hangar cost probably drove him up there. 

I have multiple friends and acquaintances with deposits down on the Raptor. While I'm always happy to cheer for the underdog, I've seen too many "too good to be true" airplanes fail to deliver - or worse - after promising low cost and astronomical performance. The Commuter Craft Innovator also comes to mind, and it ended with disaster several months ago. 

Here's hoping to see more good news from Cherokee County soon, though. 

Yeah, I wish him all the best as well. And I enjoy watching the videos and following along.

I know Peter is from Australia and I wasn't under the impression that he was "from" the Atlanta area. Maybe he has family/wife in the area that is tied to that location for work or something. But I was under the impression that he could have done this anywhere in the country. And there are lots of better places for sure.

[Niko182]

A lancair IV-P has a gross weight of 3550lbs and from memory they are 270 to 280 knot airplanes with the TSIO-550 350HP continental. My mind doesn't comprehend how
this will do 300 knots when its empty weight is 3200 lbs and by the looks of it is a lot more "draggy" than the IV-P. I don't think this will be faster than an Acclaim.

[mike_elliott]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:53 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah the left main vibrated pretty good when it touched back down and there was a puff of smoke off the right main. They're taking bets over on Beechtalk if the test pilot will actually ever fly it.

Elliot may show up on Monday if his schedule can allow. Peter is an interesting guy, I had a great conversation with him a couple of years ago at SNF. I applaud his out of the box thinking and willingness to dismiss "thats the way we have always done it" to find better ways. My concerns are 1) the belt drive system where the engine is mounted in a dampened mount, while the redrive is fixed. This might need to undergo extensive testing for belt longevity and integrity. 2) the ME in me says "I dont like what I saw" in the main strut vibration from such a delicate touchdown. 3) I would like to see him develop the leading edge cooling system instead of kicking that can down the road.

full disclaimer = position 155 but most of you know that I am not afraid of technology. Personally, this is an ideal position for me. Im too old to take on a build project and may be able to treat this as a stock option if successful, or pass it to my Instrument rated son. Downside is I lose $65 escrow fee, but I have received way more than that already in enjoyment watching this project for 5 years.

 

[afward]

Whelp, it flew.  I imagine Peter needs to buy a new pair of underwear after that first wing drop and subsequent oscillations, but otherwise he's safely back on the ground with an undamaged prototype.  BT has more colorful commentary...

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, afward said:

Whelp, it flew.  I imagine Peter needs to buy a new pair of underwear after that first wing drop and subsequent oscillations, but otherwise he's safely back on the ground with an undamaged prototype.  BT has more colorful commentary...

Video??? Without pictures, it didn't happen . . . .

[afward]

@Hank good point!

Here's Peter's post:

And one from someone with access to the tower cams:

Enjoy!

[gsxrpilot]

Yeah I watched the video within minutes of it being posted by Peter. That "airplane" has some serious issues. It took over 3500 ft to get off the ground, is unstable in pitch AND roll, and only made it 1/4 of the way around the pattern and 600 ft. AGL, before overheating. 

I feel for the guy, but I think he's in over his head on this one.

[carusoam]

What a blast!

I waited all day to have enough free time to take in the whole video...

Best regards,

-a-

[chriscalandro]

Thermals?  C’mon man. 
 

glad the gear didn’t collapse. I now owe someone 20$ for losing that bet. 
 

seriously though, I’ve been following this since the beginning and watching mis-step after mis-step. If you put your money into this I feel bad for the people that just watched it. 
 

I don’t know anybody, but I know people that know people. From what I hear, if you aren’t telling him what he wants to hear, he isn’t listening. There have been a few knowledgeable people I’ve heard that can’t deal with him. 
 

congrats on making a flying machine, but anybody hoping to own one and not die, good luck to you. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by chriscalandro

[carusoam]

Upon review...

I send nearly 50% more FF through my 310hp engine near 29gph 100LL than the Raptor was burning, 21gph...

Sure diesel has a higher energy density than gasoline does... a few percentage points... to get great fuel mileage out of a Diesel engine it takes a team of engineers working extra hours... And even the VW guys couldn’t do it like they said they could... (oops)

The short distance between the centers of lift, kind of make that type of configuration interesting...

So... I left Peter a message regarding typical power, fuel flow, and cooling relationships, and what I measure to make sure I can leave the ground...

Cooling shouldn't be that difficult... you either have it or you don’t... increase the mixture, when you don’t...
 

It Would be wise to check his FF numbers based on the IO550’s logic... 

What I noticed... he landed just after the numbers, with the centerline between the mains, and didn’t bury the nose wheel... no porpoising...   

Looked pretty successful to me... 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic or CFI....
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Mark89114]

Is this the Peter from Flying magazine about 20+ years ago?  He seemed knowledgeable this project i am not sure of....

[TonyK]

Cudos to Peter for chasing his dream and making it fly.  That said after watching this process from the beginning I feel like he is going to end up with a very expensive one off aircraft that will never see production.  I also hope the Raptor doesn't kill him before he figures that out.

[buddy]

After seeing the first flight I’m glad I got out last year and only lost $65.

[afward]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

That "airplane" has some serious issues.

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

It took over 3500 ft to get off the ground, is unstable in pitch AND roll, and only made it 1/4 of the way around the pattern and 600 ft. AGL, before overheating.

In fairness to Peter, he did accelerate well beyond his stated rotation speed before yanking it off the ground, almost as if the pitch trim was set too nose-down.  The ground-effect tests haven't taken that much runway to lift off.  That said, I only saw 420' AGL max (early in the "base->final" turn).  The overheat was likely due to having the scoop closed, which is a "WTF?!" kind of decision to me...

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

he's in over his head on this one.

That's the understatement of the whole project, sadly.