Used serviceable IO-360-A1A?

[Stephen]

9 hours ago, ABCDEF said:

Saw this add on barnstormers... He is on here too..... 

LYCOMING IO-360-A1A 1285 REMAN • $9,950 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • IO-360-A1A 1285 SINCE FACTORY REMAN. NO PROP STRIKE • Contact Jerry Pressley, Owner - located Canton, NC USA • Telephone: 423 231 3491 • Posted January 23, 2018 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad
 

Thanks, I'll look into this one....history is key for sure. 

[tigers2007]

That name - “Jerry Pressley” sounded familiar. I know I’ve read that name on Mooneyspace before. I did a google search and began typing that name and Google AUTOMATICALLY populated “Jerry Pressley Mooney”. This is the thread that came up:
https://mooneyspace.com/topic/2807-its-back-buyer-beware/

Caveat emptor


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[MIm20c]

6 hours ago, Stephen said:

Thanks, I'll look into this one....history is key for sure. 

I don’t want to throw stones but I hope that’s not the engine from the Mooney that was sitting on the rims rotting away a few months back.  

[AlexLev]

Yeah not sure I'd want to pay 10k for god knows what when I can fix what I have going on inside my engine for about the same price, maybe even 1AMU less...unless Stephen knows something we don't about his engine?

Edited February 17, 2018 by AlexLev

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

Your in good company. The truth is your never going to be right side up on these old girls. It has to be that your pre- buy was great and,very good luck. With that there are so many goodies not to mention ADS-B mandate to add to your laundry list. Most of us are upside down. So with that either your going to bite the bullet or get out of the game completely. It’s always best if you buy one very cheep to begin with. Keep the faith and if you love her get a Reputable overall engine.


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[bradp]

On 2/13/2018 at 8:46 PM, M20Doc said:

It doesn’t look like they add the oil relief groove above the centre cam bearing.  A common source of leaks at the backbone of the engine.

@M20Doc can you point out and elaborate on what the groove is / does?  

@Stephen - how many hours / years on the engine?  If low / low seems like IRAN could be fine rather than full overhaul and you can decide in a rational way which accessories need to be IRAN'd or overhauled.

That you are close to Jewell is a benefit.  They have a decent reputation.  Pull the engine with your A&P, stick it on the back of a truck and drive it out to Jewell.  Too many unknowns to assume the worst and most expensive.  The ownership jitters and expenses will get better with time.  The first year or two is historically the worst and the most likely time to find big ticket items.

One "strategy" if you're on a budget (like me and most of us) with the new plane purchase is to fly it a few annuals with some different / new eyes on it find out what the big ticket maintenance items are going to be.   Once you get into a "groove" in terms of maintenance items - - and you kind of know what's coming - - then you can start putting your airplane budget into upgrades / wants.   I'm not saying anything about your choice to upgrade to the EDM / CiES - IMO it's negligent to not have some sort of an engine monitor - it's a brilliant purchase and will hopefully keep your newly repaired engine running for a very long time.  Between engine monitoring and preventative inspections like oil filter inspections we should hopefully have many fewer windmilling props as problems are anticipated before they are emergencies.  So there's always that bright side :-)

Stick with it -- it'll get better. 

[Stephen]

6 hours ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

Your in good company. The truth is your never going to be right side up on these old girls. It has to be that your pre- buy was great and,very good luck. With that there are so many goodies not to mention ADS-B mandate to add to your laundry list. Most of us are upside down. So with that either your going to bite the bullet or get out of the game completely. It’s always best if you buy one very cheep to begin with. Keep the faith and if you love her get a Reputable overall engine.


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Hi Mj, I absolutely expected to be upside down, just not to outlay almost 2/3+ cost of the aircraft in reparative MX (assuming 30AMU fully burdened OTD costs for overhaul) out of pocket in the first year.... and I still haven't had the first annual.... yikes! I don't think this is remotely typical... at least from what I have read. 

I paid for a 1.7AMU, Pre-purchase, which definitely could have been better (see "MSC" stuff below),  but the  more expensive issues that have caused the financial MX expenditure bubble are post purchase component failures and now the metal in the oil filter. I tried to buy conservative... wanted a "J" but went for an "F" with a lower time engine and solid IFR including ADS-B panel etc etc....precisely so I wouldn't have to eat the install price of new upgrades...also had almost 2x the recommended 10AMU in MX budget allocated. The MSer's recommendations on Jewell super helpful... I hope that will ultimately be more affordable. I very much appreciate. your guys help, advice and encouragement. Engine aside, and as someone who loved to fly my F...when it flew,  I do think that getting a deal by buy an older model is becoming increasingly (read *VERY*)  risky/dicey,  with overall airframe systems wearing on these 40-50 year old airframes. The economics to repair (items that may/may-not get caught in pre-purchase) can quickly put you into and beyond the price of aircraft that are much newer, better equipped and in better repair. Those considering any aircraft purchase....particularly the older modes, would be best advised to take @gsxrpilot 's model and take a year plus to research *every option on the market*...save even more $$$ all the while and have more like a $30K mx stash fund...definitely not 10K...I thought that sounded low, budgeted more, and I still got hosed!  I think, that it is almost impossible for a buyer to really understand the mx state of an aircraft in which they were not personally, intimately involved in its history, w/o taking it to a very reputable MSC. A seller not wanting to do a reputable MSC for a pre-purchase would be a trip wire and instant walk away point for me. Run and don't look back. Are there independent ... highly Mooney savvy .... A&P's Absolutely (@sabremech @M20Doc,) but if you haven't (as a new buyer, new to the Mooney environment) taken that  "year" (per above) to acquaint yourself with them, it is too expensive to not mitigate risk by having a ringer MSC to do the pre-buy. You may  get lucky (lol, PT Barnum moment about to happen), but it is absolutely your financial (_!_) if you aren't. And consider, even the best pre-buy wound't (necessarily) protect you from some (practically) un-inspectable gotchas like post-purchase <expensive system> failures like making metal after the x oil changes, deep spar corrosion under fuel tank sealant. etc etc..... One thing is absolutely for sure, MS is gold. ..

 

 

SH

[Stephen]

6 hours ago, bradp said:

@M20Doc can you point out and elaborate on what the groove is / does?  

@Stephen - how many hours / years on the engine?  If low / low seems like IRAN could be fine rather than full overhaul and you can decide in a rational way which accessories need to be IRAN'd or overhauled.

That you are close to Jewell is a benefit.  They have a decent reputation.  Pull the engine with your A&P, stick it on the back of a truck and drive it out to Jewell.  Too many unknowns to assume the worst and most expensive.  The ownership jitters and expenses will get better with time.  The first year or two is historically the worst and the most likely time to find big ticket items.

One "strategy" if you're on a budget (like me and most of us) with the new plane purchase is to fly it a few annuals with some different / new eyes on it find out what the big ticket maintenance items are going to be.   Once you get into a "groove" in terms of maintenance items - - and you kind of know what's coming - - then you can start putting your airplane budget into upgrades / wants.   I'm not saying anything about your choice to upgrade to the EDM / CiES - IMO it's negligent to not have some sort of an engine monitor - it's a brilliant purchase and will hopefully keep your newly repaired engine running for a very long time.  Between engine monitoring and preventative inspections like oil filter inspections we should hopefully have many fewer windmilling props as problems are anticipated before they are emergencies.  So there's always that bright side :-)

Stick with it -- it'll get better. 

Thanks Brad, great advice. Here are my engine/airframe times at time of purchase:

3856-TTAF

1330-SMOH / TTE Unknown (1990 Firewall Fwd overhaul)

179-STOH w/New Factory Cylinders (2009) 

81-SPOH / TTP Unknown (2012 – Overhauled Hub)

[Guest]

7 hours ago, bradp said:

@M20Doc can you point out and elaborate on what the groove is / does?  

@Stephen - how many hours / years on the engine?  If low / low seems like IRAN could be fine rather than full overhaul and you can decide in a rational way which accessories need to be IRAN'd or overhauled.

That you are close to Jewell is a benefit.  They have a decent reputation.  Pull the engine with your A&P, stick it on the back of a truck and drive it out to Jewell.  Too many unknowns to assume the worst and most expensive.  The ownership jitters and expenses will get better with time.  The first year or two is historically the worst and the most likely time to find big ticket items.

One "strategy" if you're on a budget (like me and most of us) with the new plane purchase is to fly it a few annuals with some different / new eyes on it find out what the big ticket maintenance items are going to be.   Once you get into a "groove" in terms of maintenance items - - and you kind of know what's coming - - then you can start putting your airplane budget into upgrades / wants.   I'm not saying anything about your choice to upgrade to the EDM / CiES - IMO it's negligent to not have some sort of an engine monitor - it's a brilliant purchase and will hopefully keep your newly repaired engine running for a very long time.  Between engine monitoring and preventative inspections like oil filter inspections we should hopefully have many fewer windmilling props as problems are anticipated before they are emergencies.  So there's always that bright side :-)

Stick with it -- it'll get better. 

Lycoming Engines tend to leak oil from the backbone above the centre camshaft bearing.  To correct this a very small groove is milled in the case above the bearing.  As the case half sealant breaks down oil will work it’s way up between the case halves and seep out, sometimes from the bolts as well.  The groove provides an escape route for the oil, while still in the case.

Clarence

[Yetti]

with 180hrs on the cylinder, they should be fine.   So that is $8k of an overhaul if new $2K if reconditioned.   Now it is just removal, split case, fix, hang it.   So maybe $10K   You might want to make friends with your A&P and harbor freight.   You can pull the engine yourself get someone to fix it and then work with your A&P to rehang.   Why do you think the Annual is $5K?

[carusoam]

For an example of a CB getting an engine OH...

I recall Aaron posting a picture of his engine in the back of a VW golf(?) on its way to be OHed.

See if that helps...

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

The Bearhawk experimental plane was created to move engines around

[Stephen]

19 hours ago, Yetti said:

with 180hrs on the cylinder, they should be fine.   So that is $8k of an overhaul if new $2K if reconditioned.   Now it is just removal, split case, fix, hang it.   So maybe $10K   You might want to make friends with your A&P and harbor freight.   You can pull the engine yourself get someone to fix it and then work with your A&P to rehang.   Why do you think the Annual is $5K?

I'm thinking 5 K on the annual, because I know I need: LG Shocks, LG re-build per recent thread about having castle nut hitting one of the links, rigging, Nose gear truss is bent due to someone using a tug (not me, but bent over tolerance), I have an oil leak in the back accessory...who knows what that is going to be, but the rebuild may make that moot, needed new hoses, landing lights are apparently non-TSO "KC" lights...and who knows what else they will fine. I guess I'm paranoid a bit on pricing, but maintenance bills seldom seem to disappoint in my experience. The annual flat fee where I started it at first is $1700, then + for any MX. I figured that between the show disks, nose gear truss and annual, I am already almost to 5 K+

Edited February 18, 2018 by Stephen

[Stephen]

On 2/17/2018 at 7:12 AM, AlexLev said:

Yeah not sure I'd want to pay 10k for god knows what when I can fix what I have going on inside my engine for about the same price, maybe even 1AMU less...unless Stephen knows something we don't about his engine?

No, I don't know any gotchas about my engine.  Just when I looked at the higher end engine shops... assuming overhaul is done completely with the full accessory treatment etc... It looked to consistently be comping about > 30K when considering the engine removal/install. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Stephen

[Yetti]

GE official landing lights are $5.00  Change those out yourself which is legal as an owner pilot.  A Set new hoses are $1100 for the good ones with internal firesleeves.  Call PHT hoses in Tulsa.  Make sure your oil cooler is stock.  You said landing light(s)   If not you need shorter oil cooler hoses.   Also if you have a fuel flow meter the fuel line will be different. 

Unless the discs are cracked or split they can probably go another year

 

[Stephen]

Thanks Yetti; good to know on the GE's thanks for the tip. The disks are split so they need to get replaced. 

[75_M20F]

So what was the word on your engine?

[Nomad Pilot]

I'm guessing its too late for an oil  sample analysis, they could have tested the oil and determined the type of metal found. I use Blackstone labs. Anywho... These engines are simple to remove and install, I'm an A&P and I wouldn't have a problem with the owner doing the work a majority of the work to save money, especially the removal.      

[Stephen]

Hi ABCDEF,

 

I just have the plane stored in the hangar for now. Waiting till after taxes this year to see where I'm at. Sorry for not replying, I have been in India for a few weeks. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Stephen

[Stephen]

By way of update, while waiting for the engine story to play out, I used some parts on hand and removed my nose gear this weekend and installed a new upper truss that was bent by an over zealous tug driver. I have some feedback on that if anyone is doing one on an "F" model. Also, installed new shock disks. If I can get the main's done after work this week, I plan on getting a ferry permit and flying it Friday or Saturday to Jewell to have them remove and inspect the engine. Really want to thank all the MS'ers for your guidance and recommendations!

To do's on the plane are:

• Engine (IRAN/Overhaul) leaning toward the latter since Jewell makes it much more affordable.
• Annual Redux
• IFR pito/static cert
• Rigging at DMAX
• Main gear rebuild (deferred).

[FloridaMan]

Find the source of the metal before you go and get an engine. Mine was overhauled in the mid 90s and started making metal last year and needed an overhaul. It also had around 2200 hours on it. The lifters had spalled and it spun a bearing. However, you could just have a broken ring or something minor. Sending you a private message now. 

[Stephen]

Thanks Antares; I'll follow up via PM. 

[Stephen]

After I got back from intl travel and got the filter, notice that the metal is more consistent with a few "dust" particles (zoom way in to see) than flakes. I am getting a ferry permit to take the plane to get an annual elsewhere and have a jug pulled to allow borescope inspection. If it needs the rebuild we'll go Jewell. Also thanks to MS'er @Antares for the detail on his, similar experience over the phone. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Stephen

[moodychief]

Stephen,

PM me.  

I may be able to direct you to a reputable old school mechanic that won't try to bankrupt you.  He grew up in the business and has done several things for my Mooney and is located in Central Arkansas.

I had a leaky exhaust valve this year (plane currently in annual) and instead of suggesting to replace the cylinder he actually lapped and reseated both the intake and exhaust valves for a small fraction of replacing the cylinder.  Compression went from 30 cold to 75 cold.

Also,  did you check Dawson's Aircraft Salvage in Clinton?  Sometimes they have non-prop strike Mooney engines available.

[Stephen]

On 4/21/2018 at 11:37 AM, moodychief said:

Stephen,

PM me.  

I may be able to direct you to a reputable old school mechanic that won't try to bankrupt you.  He grew up in the business and has done several things for my Mooney and is located in Central Arkansas.

I had a leaky exhaust valve this year (plane currently in annual) and instead of suggesting to replace the cylinder he actually lapped and reseated both the intake and exhaust valves for a small fraction of replacing the cylinder.  Compression went from 30 cold to 75 cold.

Also,  did you check Dawson's Aircraft Salvage in Clinton?  Sometimes they have non-prop strike Mooney engines available.

Hi Moody!  Sorry I didn't see your reply until now.  @Antares had a similar recommendation and my plane is with Patty down at East Texas Flying Service. It should be out of annual mid June and so far there was nada in the screen and the "very short" .... maybe 4-5 hours oil analysis was completely clean and there was nothing in the filter. Once I personally examined the filter the metal in the filter elements was a few  (maybe 5-15 fish "dust" (far smaller than say glitter...literally dust size) metal bits per pleat per pics above. Patty thought that I might have just made some metal based on the plane sitting about 6 weeks and possibly got some cylinder wall rust that caused some minor scuffing. So far no more metal. Plan is to pull/cut the filter every 10 hrs for awhile. Fingers crossed.