M20C Panel Redo: EGT rotary switch too BIG.

[0TreeLemur]

J.P.I. EDM900 Installed and tested.  Works great!   It sure makes leaning the engine a snap.   Seeing everything in one place in vivid color is awesome.

The Lycoming manual says to run the O360 at peak EGT.   I can't bring myself to do it, remembering stories about burned exhaust valves.  Kind of like being told "Go ahead- run with scissors."  or "Go swimming right after you eat a big meal."   75F rich of peak is what I was taught, which gives about 10.8 gph at 5500-6500 ft and 24 sq.  Should I run at peak?  (note I forgot to hit "Refill?  <yes>")

[carusoam]

Having so much data, you are now able to operate in places the original documents wouldn’t allow.

Not quite like running with scissors, but equally fun...

 

Reviewing the data, you can look for anomalies...  stuff you can’t really pick-up while flying.

Download the data, graph it and review how well you did.

can you improve your start-up to take off time while touching all the bases?

 

Now consider updating your checklists to include all the electronic gizmos... reset and turn on fuel, WiFi, BT, batteries in portable stuff, flightplan things, unplug things...  that kind of stuff.   

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

9 hours ago, Fred_2O said:

The Lycoming manual says to run the O360 at peak EGT.   I can't bring myself to do it, remembering stories about burned exhaust valves.  Kind of like being told "Go ahead- run with scissors."  or "Go swimming right after you eat a big meal."   50F rich of peak is what I was taught, which gives about 10.8 gph at 5500-6500 ft and 24 sq.  Should I run at peak?  (note I forgot to hit "Refill?  <yes>")

Running peak is ok if you are below 65 percent power. 24 squared is in the 75-80 percent power range and I would think 80-100 ish ROP might be a little better.  The JPI looks great. 

[0TreeLemur]

When we calibrated the fuel tanks, I emptied the L tank in flight, then drained about 7 gallons from the right tank after landing by removing the sampling port.  Now said sampling port is leaking as evidenced by blue staining around its perimeter about 1/2 inch.  I didn't want to over tighten it.   Does anyone know the correct torque for that?   The maintenance manual doesn't seem to include that fact.

-Thx.

[carusoam]

Fred, that answer may be found around here somewhere...

It can be leaking in one or two different ways....

1) the spring loaded valve part might have dirt in it...

2) the sealing surfaces might have some dirt on them...

 

I was given a sump drain for my M20C by my mechanic... his last words were don’t over torque it...

Being familiar with compression fittings...  hand tighten then add 1/8 or 1/4 turn... seemed like a good idea...

Somewhere before the quarter turn the device snapped right off...

Tail between my legs, I sauntered back to my work overseeing mechanic to see if he had another sump drain and some better advice the second time... 

The size of the faceted nut shape made a large socket wrench the only tool I had available... way too much torque, Accidently available...

 

Lessons learned...

• let the mechanic do it... saves money.
• expect an expensive lesson to be learned along the way...
• Doing it yourself is better for you in the long run...
• clean the fitting threads inside and out side.
• clean the surfaces on both the tank and the sump drain.
• Is there a rubber like seal on the sump drain?
• if there is a rubber piece, it’s not large like an o ring... there won’t be a lot of compression needed for a seal.
• if the surfaces are clean, hand tightening without a wrench should work well.  It isn’t going fall back out in flight without a whole lot of warning...

Really old memory of a PP, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

J.P.I. EDM900 Installed and tested.  Works great!   It sure makes leaning the engine a snap.   Seeing everything in one place in vivid color is awesome.

The Lycoming manual says to run the O360 at peak EGT.   I can't bring myself to do it, remembering stories about burned exhaust valves.  Kind of like being told "Go ahead- run with scissors."  or "Go swimming right after you eat a big meal."   50F rich of peak is what I was taught, which gives about 10.8 gph at 5500-6500 ft and 24 sq.  Should I run at peak?  (note I forgot to hit "Refill?  ")

 

I typically run at 80° ROP on my fuel injected F. I can’t provide recommendations for your carb version but I am sure others will.

 

A couple of recommendations I can make if you haven’t done so already. Verify the % HP against the POH and make the adjustments in that factor to get it accurate.

 

Your fuel flow may be off until you dial in the k factor. I have spent a fair amount of time tweaking mine so that I am not off more than a few tenths on fill up. Not sure which senders you are using, but keep an eye out for the “fuel mismatch” error if you stayed with the factory senders. I was plagued with them with the factory senders and eventually resolved it with the CiES senders.

 

I also noticed your fuel to empty calculations are off. You may not have reset the fuel level when you filled up. If you have a GPS, the JPI can take your flight plan information and calculate out your fuel remaining to destination, etc.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[0TreeLemur]

Marauder,  shortly after I snapped that photo, my co-pilot (wife) noticed that the fuel remaining and tank indications did not agree.   I forgot to enter added fuel before t-o.  We got out the manual and figured out how to add fuel on the go.  The device and its interface seem really well thought out.

The K-factor for the fuel flow sensor was duly noted before installation of fire sleeve, and entered into the manual and device.

I did program the %power as described in the manual using values from the POH.   However, there are many factors that go into the power calculation,  Without a torque measurement, I see that indication as a "suggestion".  It says 100% on takeoff ;-)

[MIm20c]

You might just want to buy a new Curtis or similar drain valve. They are only $20-25. At the very least I’d check the oring to see if it looks damaged or aged. 

[carusoam]

Side note...

Consider Adding a section to your Preflight procedures...

An ‘electronics’ checklist for all the electronic devices that have been added over the years, that includes things like...

• reset any flight timers and fuel levels...
• enter flight plans in all the GPSi
• turn on and plug in any portable devices
• connect all WiFi and BT devices.
• start up any flight tracking devices

Some electronic devices are better than others for starting up and resetting...

Others, you find out mid-flight, or after the flight is over...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

7 hours ago, MIm20c said:

You might just want to buy a new Curtis or similar drain valve. They are only $20-25. At the very least I’d check the oring to see if it looks damaged or aged. 

Thx.   Amazing that they are so inexpensive.   I'll take two at that price.   The other one drains slow when I sample fuel.

[0TreeLemur]

Anybody know the size of the threads are on the M20C tank drain valves?    I didn't measure it when it was out, and can't find it in the parts catalog.   If I had to guess, I would put my money on 1/4" NPT.   Can anyone confirm/reject this notion?

[MIm20c]

CURTIS DRAIN VALVE CCA-2800

[0TreeLemur]

While flying back from FFA last week northeast of ATL.   Took a/c to avionics shop in Mississippi yesterday to get GNS430W and Appareo xpdr installed.   I'll post photos after that is done in a couple of weeks.  Note empty holes for G106A CDI and Accu-Trak II.

[0TreeLemur]

We removed the weeping drain valve in my '67 M20C and replaced it with the Curtis CCA-2800.   It looks dissimilar to what was removed.   After doing some research it seems that a McFarlane p/n SA53S was installed.   Comparing the photos of the two, it seems that the SA53S drains liquid that passes the threads, while the CCA-2800 will drain from higher up in the tank, perhaps leaving some water sitting in the bottom of the tank.   The o-ring on the SA53S valve I removed is pretty smashed, that I think explains why it was weeping.   The parts manual does not give the details of this valve, but since the SA53S was in there, it should probably go back in.  Anybody know the o-ring dimensions or P/N?  -Thanks.

[0TreeLemur]

I'm going to partially answer my own question.  I just discovered the answer on LASAR's www site- the CCA2800 is used only for Monroy long range tanks.   Normal applications should use the SA53S.

Still need o-ring dims or p/n for the SA53S.

 

[Marauder]

I'm going to partially answer my own question.  I just discovered the answer on LASAR's www site- the CCA2800 is used only for Monroy long range tanks.   Normal applications should use the SA53S.

Still need o-ring dims or p/n for the SA53S.

 

 

Fred - I just had mine replaced due it starting to weep. The FA53S is a non thread sealing unit and relies completely on the O ring to make the seal. The Curtis valves require a thread sealant and the drain point is as you noted slightly above the threaded portion.

 

The FA53S is a McFarland valve. If you look on this page you will see an O ring application guide. Interestingly the FA53S is not listed. Perhaps because they don’t want you to replace it. At ~$25 per valve, it might make sense to just replace it. https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/products/product/SA53S/

 

I will look at my parts manual to see what your plane original came with. You can also see the part number stamped on the nut portion and see if the other side is the same.

 

I have bladders and replaced my original with a CCA-2500.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[carusoam]

How can we discuss WD-40 and not invite @Piloto...?  (just kidding piloto knows a lot about these valves as well)

Great pics, Fred!   That should start things off on the right foot.

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

After removing the o-ring from the 53S valve and making some measurements, I see by the Parker o-ring selector tool that they appear to be 2-014 size code o-ring.   That said, I believe Marauder speaks the truth when he says the entire valve should be replaced.   I just wish I had bought the right ones first.   Live and learn. 

[carusoam]

Fred,

Did we discuss the light torque required to install and seal the drain...?

It only takes a light amount to compress the oring and seal... it won’t be able to vibrate loose and fall out...

 

An Engineer fearing fuel leakage, following typical torque rules for fasteners, can tear the valve in half... with hand tools... 

Things you learn along the way... my mechanic said don’t over torque it.  I was clearly pre-warned.

 

Hope that helps keep you from buying a third set...

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

Thanks A.  I believe the torque spec is 80 in-lb for these.    I'll probably try 70 and see if that does it

[0TreeLemur]

I should say I'll suggest that my mechanic Dave try 70... 

[carusoam]

When you hand him the gift of a newly calibrated torque wrench....  

He probably has a few....

Best regards,

-a-

[0TreeLemur]

Done!!!  Still troubleshooting the Accutrak II, but everything is in place.  Compare with "before" photo on the 2nd page of this thread.   Another museum piece Mooney brought forward decades in terms of technology.

[Marauder]

10 minutes ago, Fred_2O said:

Done!!!  Still troubleshooting the Accutrak II, but everything is in place.  Compare with "before" photo on the 2nd page of this thread.   Another museum piece Mooney brought forward decades in terms of technology.

Doesn't look like you had the labels made. That still coming?

[0TreeLemur]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Doesn't look like you had the labels made. That still coming?

The labels are ready.   I haven't had good conditions to apply them- too sweaty in hangar!   Sweat dripping in eyes is not good for detailed optical work.  Man it has been HOT.