Mooney Insurance

[Justin938]

Hey Mooney Pilots, I was curious if anyone else was getting hammered with increases to their mooney polices and who folks are with.

 

I have a Starrlink / Starr Aviation policy that was for $160,000 Hull  and 1M liability on a M20K. I was paying $3100 for 2 lower time VFR pilots. 

 

Now its looking like the cheapest is close to $5k / year. Thoughts

[jaylw314]

My annual rates the last 3 years for $125k hull value:

$2200 - New owner, no time in type, VFR

$1700 - 120 hours time in type (Starr)

$1300 - new IFR rating (Global)

All rates came through AOPA Insurance as the broker, and I just got the Global quote for this year.  I can't remember the carrier for the first year. So no, I haven't seen a sudden increase, and the rates sound typical for my time-in-type and IFR rating

[jrwilson]

Holy cow...for a K, with slightly less hull (140) I'm at $1100.  Granted I have some Mooney time and over 2k hours total time, but still....  I went through Falcon.

[TTaylor]

Welcome to MS Justin,

Just renewed with U.S. Specialty Insurance Company at one of the lowest rates I have seen.  We have a partnership of VFR pilots.   Are you using a broker that is shopping your policy around each year?  There are several threads here on recommended brokers. The search engine in MS is not that good for some reason.  Use Google and search the key words plus MooneySpace.

I recommend Pat Costello at Costello Insurance Associates if you don't have a broker yet.  He got me a quick replacement policy after AOPA screwed mine up a few years ago. He has been good about finding the best policy over the last few years as the market has fluctuated drastically for some insurance underwriters.  Partnerships will pay a little more but it should not be outrageous.

 

 

 

 

[warren.huisman]

2K / year for 120k hull value for a J Model. I have around 450 hrs total and but only about 10hrs complex time with zero in type. I am instrument rated commercial pilot. I received this quote going through AOPA. They require 10 hrs transition training with a qualified instructor before I can fly solo.


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[KLRDMD]

Be sure to compare apples to apples. A $1MM/100k policy will be a fair amount cheaper than a $1MM smooth policy. Also, look at the "extras" the more expensive policies offer, it may be worth it. For example, I could have chosen a policy with these extras for a higher premium. Might be worth it some and not others.

+    Open Pilot Clause waiver for FAA authorized repair facilities +    Bahamas & Caribbean extension (excluding Cuba and Haiti) +    Unearned Premium Insurance +    Spare Parts Coverage +    Emergency Landing Expense Coverage +    Trip Interruption Coverage +    Portable Avionics Coverage +    Hurricane Protection Coverage +    Aircraft Value Appreciation +    Baggage Liability Coverage +    Liability Coverage For Sale of an Owned Aircraft +    Damage to Non-Owned Hangars and Non-Owned Contents Coverage +    Airport Premises Liability Coverage +    Search & Rescue Expense Coverage +    Temporary Use of Other Aircraft Expense Coverage +    Non-Owned Hull Coverage

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Justin938 said:

....Now its looking like the cheapest is close to $5k / year. Thoughts

(1) Get your instrument ratings. 

(2) Shop around a bit.  

[CaptRJM]

Falcon has always done right by me. I’m paying 1.25% on a 1MM smooth policy. Instrument Commercial rated with 2000+ hours, about 900 in Mooney and about 600 turbine time.

Instrument rating, complex high performance time and time in type will significantly affect the rate.

In my experience,  there are only a few companies underwriting aviation insurance.  Brokers will not get vastly different quotes from the underwriters. Doing a lot of shopping around may not buy you anything and might even complicated matters. 

[RobertGary1]

My rate was pretty low last year. Always amazed at how inexpensive it is. My broker says that there is a lot of competition right now for high time pilots driving down rates. Low time pilots not so much. Most companies are trying to balance their portfolio with more high time pilots right now. That seems to be accurate from what I’ve seen. 

-Robert

[Justin938]

would like to add a bit of color:
For those with a 120k hull. how much liability coverage do you have with that?  

I am a 450hour pilot with over 100 hours of complex time w and same type. 

I'm actually working on instrument rating, but even still would only swing it down 5%.

I am working with a broker, they are saying everyone is more expensive then Starrlink. Do the brokers talk to everyone? Who don't they talk to, that I should look at going direct with.

Sounds like I am currently not looking at a 1M smooth (which seems like it would be more expensive) ?
 

 

[warren.huisman]

would like to add a bit of color:
For those with a 120k hull. how much liability coverage do you have with that?  

I am a 450hour pilot with over 100 hours of complex time w and same type. 
I'm actually working on instrument rating, but even still would only swing it down 5%.
I am working with a broker, they are saying everyone is more expensive then Starrlink. Do the brokers talk to everyone? Who don't they talk to, that I should look at going direct with.
Sounds like I am currently not looking at a 1M smooth (which seems like it would be more expensive) ?
 
 

I have a million liability. I think it should be enough. Now sure what others thoughts are on this amount?


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[ArtVandelay]

My rate was pretty low last year. Always amazed at how inexpensive it is.

Nice, if rates go up we’re blaming you.

[peevee]

Just now, warren.huisman said:

I have a million liability. I think it should be enough. Now sure what others thoughts are on this amount?


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a million is about all I can get, more important are the sublimits. I can't get 1mil smooth, but I can get 1mil/300k

[warren.huisman]

a million is about all I can get, more important are the sublimits. I can't get 1mil smooth, but I can get 1mil/300k

This may be a good educational point for me. Not sure what you mean by 1mil smooth. I was quoted 1mil combined single limit for an additional $400 / year. I opted for the cheaper option with 100k limit per passenger.


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[kortopates]

52 minutes ago, warren.huisman said:

This may be a good educational point for me. Not sure what you mean by 1mil smooth. I was quoted 1mil combined single limit for an additional $400 / year. I opted for the cheaper option with 100k limit per passenger.


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What liability coverage you opt to select has nothing to do with plane value but entirely to do with your personal assets/worth you are protecting. 1 mill with 100K sub-limits means the max your covered per person is only 100K. That's nothing in today's litigious society - if your worth many times that then you or your estate will be left paying for the remainder of the settlement. Smooth limits ensure you have the full million limit. Obviously a young person with little wealth accumulated doesn't yet have much to loose but as we acquire more wealth for retirement the more important smooth limits become to us recognizing one bad law suit could clean out a lifetime of savings.

[Jerry 5TJ]

58 minutes ago, warren.huisman said:

I have a million liability. I think it should be enough. Now sure what others thoughts are on this amount?

If you ever hurt someone with your airplane 1 million / 100K per person coverage won’t do much.

$1 million smooth might be enough. I carried $2 million smooth on the Ovation because that’s all that I could get without umbrella additional policy.  

Here’s my reasoning:  You hurt someone. They sue you. Your insurer offers to settle.

If you have 1M/100K the company offers $100K. The lawyer gets a third.  Plaintiff can have $66,000 if they settle. Or they can go to trial and several years later maybe clean you out.   $66K is not a life-changing sum for most folks, they may look at you, a rich airplane owner, and go for trial.  

If you have $1M smooth the company will likely offer that. The decision for plaintiff — take over $600,000 cash right now, or gamble on perhaps getting more years later after a trial.  I’m guessing lots more people will go for settlement given that figure.  

As the insured party I want them to settle soon and not to encumber my life with a lawsuit dragging on for years.  

My assertion: Fly safe, train often, and carry all the smooth coverage you can buy.  

If you have no assets whatsoever you have nothing to lose and the cheapest insurance matches your needs.  Otherwise you should probably insure at a level commensurate with your net worth.   

 

Flame away: I prefer medium-rare.  

 

 

[carusoam]

Summary for things that lower the insurance cost....

1) Second year of Mooney Flying is much lower in cost than the first.

2) MAPA Training And things like that lowers the cost.

3) IR cuts about 1amu off the price.

4) Usaa And Falcon gets you a decent price to begin with.

5) a lot of the price is related to the other things, not the plane...

6) a 200AMU Mooney vs a 100AMU Mooney may only be a couple hundred bucks different... So make sure you have an agreed value that will cover your actual cost if you get into a fender bender....

PP thoughts only, not an insurance pro...

Best regards,

-a-