MAPA speaks about Mooney

[MooneyMitch]

From Trey on MAPA List:

Yesterday I had the chance to talk with Solomon Mayer, MAC President and
CEO, about the status of Mooney.  He was very upbeat about how the
discussions with potential partners have been progressing.  "The market
outlook for new planes in the US is showing signs of improvement and we are
starting to see increased interest from potential customers who are
questioning when they will be able to place an order for new planes" said
Mr. Mayer.  "Internationally we are also seeing increased interest led by
the developments in China which in turn is boosting interest in Asia
generally.  The future growth of the Chinese market and the development of a
true GA environment has significant potential for us.  The recent
acquisitions of US GA companies by Chinese companies demonstrate how
seriously they view the development of their domestic GA industry."



He also said that while Mooney is not currently producing new planes we
continue to focus our resources on maintaining our certifications and
supporting the existing fleet.  This support includes the provision of
service parts and the technical help desk.  "We are in the process of
sourcing parts with local vendors so that we can maximize parts availability
to our customers" he said.  "The continued support of Mooney owners, Mooney
Ambassadors, Mooniacs, and our pilot associations MAPA. has contributed
significantly to our ability to weather the market downturn over the past
two years.  This will allow us to emerge stronger than ever."



Regards,

Trey Hughes=

[flight2000]

I'm going to take that with a grain of salt and call it good.  To many open questions right now to get too excited, but at least there is a small sliver of hope they will emerge from the downturn.  Wonder if the furloughed workers will be willing to come back if they start production again and at what rate?? Lot's of questions out there still.

[1964-M20E]

That is great I heard from another source that Mooney was trying to outsource some parts but in the mean time there are parts that are still made of unobtanium.

[PTK]

I take this as a sale to China is coming up.

[John Pleisse]

I was happy to see Cirrus and part of Cessna go to China. The Chinese will bludgeon these brands and put lives at risk. Would you buy anything your life depended on from China? Piper would be a great pick-up for the Chinese.

If Mooney goes that way, it would clearly be the end of an era and the end of a brand.

 

[scottfromiowa]

Hey Mr. Happy...didn't you tell me to lighten up in a PM?

[John Pleisse]

Matter of fact I did....if you are feeling advisarial and confrontational enough, why don't you publish it for everyone to see?

[FlyDave]

Quote: N4352H

I was happy to see Cirrus and part of Cessna go to China. The Chinese will bludgeon these brands and put lives at risk. Would you buy anything your life depended on from China? Piper would be a great pick-up for the Chinese.

If Mooney goes that way, it would clearly be the end of an era and the end of a brand.

 

[John Pleisse]

Quote: FlyDave

I commented on this on a thread about 4 months ago on the purchase of Continental by a Chinese company.

In answer to your question, NO! I would NOT (knowingly) trust my life to an airplane or part made by the chinese. They would need to prove their on-going high quality products and manufacturing for 5-7 years for me to feel comfortable. If it came down to buying nothing but Chinese made parts for my airplane, I'd have to sell and buy something manufactured and supported by a company from a country known for better quality. If I couldn't afford it, I'd have to stop flying.

If price is the primary deciding factor in aviation, then the Chinese will win hands down....but that's not the only thing the will be down.

[DaV8or]

Quote: Mitch

From Trey on MAPA List:

Yesterday I had the chance to talk with Solomon Mayer, MAC President and

CEO, about the status of Mooney.  He was very upbeat about how the

discussions with potential partners have been progressing. 

[scottfromiowa]

No thank you.  I'll save my feelings for you on PM's...Simply pointing out the hypocritical nature of comments made.  You know, short and sweet.

[scottfromiowa]

The Chinese make rifles that will kill you just as efficiently as a U.S. made M4.  Drop them in the dirt, mud in the action.  They function.

[John Pleisse]

One thing is for sure.....MAC won't make themselves profitable long-term bolting big bore Continentals on old airframes. Where is the Jet A? Six place? Maybe the old Mite Type Cert could some how be resurected for LSA? You are dead on Dave..they'll have to innovate.

[Kwixdraw]

I read the BS where Mooney said they were failing because they were trying to over produce a hand made Rolls Royce quality airplane and sell it to the masses. Shoot if no one flys the damned thing how is anyone going to get interested in buying one? It all boils down to percieved value. Back in the 201 days the J was the most bang for the buck and the 231 was for the high flying guys. If they can't produce enough to enjoy an economy of scale and drop the price to regain that cost-benefit profile they had back then, they had better be designing something to get them there or selling to the highest bidder because they are done.

 

[DaV8or]

Quote: scottfromiowa

The Chinese make rifles that will kill you just as efficiently as a U.S. made M4.  Drop them in the dirt, mud in the action.  They function.

[N9937c]

Most gunfights only require less than 6 shells.

Chinese Manufacturing will no doubt make that endurance test.

larry

[scottfromiowa]

Bet you wouldn't let me take one shot off-hand at 200 yards Dave...

I'm just joking.  I agree that China is behind.  So was Japan at one point.  I am happy with my plane, I couldn't even afford a Chinese Mooney...new, much less a Texas version.  I hope Mooney does another Phoenix.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[sleepingsquirrel]

I'm late to the conversation but I suspect GA in China would be advanced twenty to thirty years with what we consider an old design (old technology). Some third world countries are using technology far advanced like cell phones and cell infrastructure because they NEVER had any land line technology to hold them back. They were able to jump directly into the future. Chinas' growing industrial complex and economic growth is probably in line with Japans' post war development. Chinas' parts for Mooney ,TCM,etc. would probably match my fifty year old Mooney in quality and durability just perfectly. Considering their economy of scale they could produce affordable Cessna, Mooney and Contential parts which match perfectly the U.S. machines of thirty years ago. Considering the average age of U.S. aircraft at about 40 years , it appears they will have a ready made market for parts as they grow their GA fleet with Mooneys ,Cessnas, and Cirrus.

The U.S. is probably maturing to resemble post war Europe. You know $10/gallon av gas, restrictive governmental regulation, somewhat flatlined for growth in industry, a more service oriented economy.

All things considered computer technology should cost far more than it does , it doesn't because  we can buy the finished product produced by cheap labor elsewhere. Ask yourself, has your kid never needed a newer computer ? They don't care where it came from! Maybe cheap affordable airplanes produced in China will be just as welcome here as the cheap electronic gizmos Japan produced after WWII. My first transistor radio was Japanese, and we all know what happened after that.

[Comatose]

Computer technology isn't as cheap as it is because of offshore labor. I know, my company manufactures electronics right here in the USA. It is as cheap as it is because the volumes are staggering and the whole thing is extremely automated. A PC motherboard, for example, is about a total of one man minute of human time.

If you could drop that level of automation onto Mooney (without the capital expenditure) then they might survive. Who needs jigs in an era of CNC cutting,positioning robots and welding robots? Companies running 1970 technology, that's who.  Heck, who needs welded tubes in a world of composites? However, a much more heavily automated Mooney line would probably cost a hundred million dollars, including engineering time and certification for a new airframe. Anyone care to pony up?

[Vref]

Well...to widen this topic! Look at the classical case Boeing versus Airbus....the heavily contested subsidising discussions ongoing for years! Where is the money is coming from to enable new technology with economical benefits later on..fare trade in aviation business etc..?

There are currently discussions ongoing between the US and Europe to maybe stop all this and cooperate in stead of fighting....Asia is moving forward very fast in the aviation field. China's growth in this field will be heavily subsidised by the state, you can be sure of that! The future will enable new alliances in aviation . We will have a couple of new players on the table soon requiring a reshuffle of the cards...

Nagging about it won't help, we are in a global market its up to the existing players in aviation to rethink there positions..and hopefully ride on the wave of change to benefit from it...

An OESO study showed that China's eduction system is Nbr 1 or so world wide.........

In order to stay ahead with technology that's where it all starts.......Jeeeeeee...I stop now...

Pisa Study very enlightening reading

 

 

[sleepingsquirrel]

 Anyone care to pony up?

 

Maybe the Chinese just did. Nothing like getting the old out of the way in a lower acuity setting (building by hand in a labor intensive market) to allow automation to move in here. I somehow see a win win . Mooney maintains solvency selling a tried and true design in a market I believe poised for expansion. Automated assembly with globally produced parts could be the new Mooney. That is until the U.S. produced composite Mooney replaces the steel , aluminum,  Mooney (all us old people) seem to love. The new U.S GA pilots will look back at this technology as we look at the wood wing A models.

[Newguy]

Interesting thread. I just returned from China and actually took some time to speak to one of the pilots on a domestic flight.  GA is almost non existent, currently.  All flights in China need to be approved by the government, no matter the weather, the flight level. This is supposed to change at some point in the future. When it does, Mooney or any other aircraft company would be nuts not to be there marketing their product.

Dan