Aircraft Brokers

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

Didn't want to put a name on them but such "self proclaimed Mooney specialists"  are indeed used car/plane salesmen.  AAA is probably the worst!  They manipulate and pump up the market and thus inflate their asking prices.  Buyers and sellers don't need these middlemen.  They are self serving and are not there for neither the buyer nor the seller.  The seller realizes less for their airplane and the buyer pays more than they should! They only confuse the process which in the end costs more for all involved

[fantom]

Couldn't agree more, Parker.

There are probably more PIA, cheapskate, know nothing, blowhard, time wasting, tire kicking shoppers around, than decent, value added brokers, like AAA, who are by almost all accounts, the best in the business.

[flyboy0681]

My approach is totally different. I can't recall ever wanting something so bad that I wasn't willing to give it up (OK, maybe my wife). With this in mind I don't make it a policy to put deposits down. If I lose the opportunity then I lose the opportunity. Another one will come along given enough time. If the seller is serious then they will proceed without a deposit. The only exception to this rule is obviously real estate.

Like Cris said, a handshake should suffice.

[Becca]

We bought our Mooney brokered through AAA after a long time searching planes.  Honestly we had been mostly looking at private party purchase, but AAA had the right plane at the right price.  The usual negotiation was required and somewhat annoying, but in the end, I was left feeling like we were dealt with completely fairly.  Feel free to pm me if you want more details. 

[gsengle]

Quote: Becca

We bought our Mooney brokered through AAA after a long time searching planes.  Honestly we had been mostly looking at private party purchase, but AAA had the right plane at the right price.  The usual negotiation was required and somewhat annoying, but in the end, I was left feeling like we were dealt with completely fairly.  Feel free to pm me if you want more details. 

[Barry]

I bought my Mooney from AAA and it was a great experience. I had a down payment on a plane which failed the pre-buy. They found me another plane that was in exceptional condition and a much better plane than the 1st.

I could not be happier with the quality of service  I rec'd from AAA. They are (IMHO) a great bunch of stand-up guys.

[PTK]

Quote: fantom

Couldn't agree more, Parker.

There are probably more PIA, cheapskate, know nothing, blowhard, time wasting, tire kicking shoppers around, than decent, value added brokers, like AAA, who are by almost all accounts, the best in the business.

[N601RX]

I've never dealt with a broker before, but perhaps someone who has can share what percentage of the sale their comission would be? 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Plenty of buyers will deposit a "refundable deposit" with a reputable dealer because they know it's refundable.  Then they will waffle and waffle and waffle on a purchase because they were not mentally comitted to buying the plane.  In that case, I have no problem with a broker releasing the plane to someone else (serious buyer) who puts a deposit on the aircraft.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: N601RX

I've never dealt with a broker before, but perhaps someone who has can share what percentage of the sale their comission would be? 

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Plenty of buyers will deposit a "refundable deposit" with a reputable dealer because they know it's refundable.  Then they will waffle and waffle and waffle on a purchase because they were not mentally comitted to buying the plane.  In that case, I have no problem with a broker releasing the plane to someone else (serious buyer) who puts a deposit on the aircraft.

[fantom]

Well, I think we certainly DON'T have the complete story ~

[Becca]

Quote: allsmiles

I agree Parker100%.  How about in the case where a reputable buyer places a deposit proceeds to AND pays for prebuy, sets up a date to close and pickup the airplane,  buys an airline ticket to get there, arranges for a safety pilot to fly home with, purchases an airline ticket to fly safety pilot back,  only to find out the night before the airplane isn't available!  And then takes a year and the threat of legal action to get "refundable"  deposit back!  What do you think in that case?  

[PTK]

Quote: fantom

Well, I think we certainly DON'T have the complete story ~

[PTK]

Quote: Becca

I agree Parker100%.  How about in the case where a reputable buyer places a deposit proceeds to AND pays for prebuy, sets up a date to close and pickup the airplane,  buys an airline ticket to get there, arranges for a safety pilot to fly home with, purchases an airline ticket to fly safety pilot back,  only to find out the night before the airplane isn't available!  And then takes a year and the threat of legal action to get "refundable"  deposit back!  What do you think in that case?  

[fantom]

"Somehow it had to be the buyer"

Only in this one case.

[Barry]

Well, your situation certainly would have me boiling, too. It is difficult to know what the broker had going on in the background. Perhaps the purchase of the plane from the former buyer had some issues and fell through. Perhaps the paper work was screwed up. Perhaps the broker had trouble getting the money to payoff the plane as he expected. Shit happens ... however, the inability to recoup your deposit for an extended period of time is very had to expain and seems inexcusable with the limited knowledge we have of what went on.

As mentioned in this thread, AAA is mostly a pretty good place to deal with. What happened here is certainly out of normal operations for them.

[Becca]

Quote: allsmiles

Why did you pay the mechanic for a prebuy in advance of the actual inspection?  I didn't think this was SOP (regardless of the broker, I would not pay a mechanic before he actually did the work).

[M20F]

I just bought a M20F from AAA and here are my findings from primarily dealing with Dave M.

1.) I called expressed interest in the plane and got some various good/bad points on it.  Full log books sent no problem.  Was clear that until deposit was paid the airplane was for sale.

2.) I had a friend visiting San Antonio who stopped in and saw the airplane and they detailed things like Com #2 worked but was squeaky and some other issues

3.) Called and offered basic deal of purchase price + Don Maxwell annual as tentative offer which Dave advised worked in theory.

4.) Went down, saw the airplane, flew the airplane, had an appraiser (Paul Whetstone highly recommend) come out and look at the airplane.  All good and issues were openly discussed and clarified.

5.) Worked out a deal which had a minimal shift down on the price as I felt the purchase price was in line with what aircraft was worth to me (does any other price really matter??).  Included in the deal was an annual with Don Maxwell with them paying all squawks and a 20hr prop pulled off a plane they took in trade that was priced at a steal into the deal.  Shook hands/wrote a check.

Without getting into a lot of details the annual worked up a fair amount worth of issues some known some unknown at the hand shake (wrong bolts in elevator, Ford truck parts used in unique ways, plumbing fixtures in vacuum system, all new pucks, brakes, tires, rerigged, new rheostats, bunch of other stuff), they paid for it no questions.  The prop required STC and due to back plate issues a new spinner which was shipped from Hartzell the day I arrived to pick the plane up.  I felt pretty bad (though liked the deal I got) for Jimmy and Dave on the prop deal because they lost on that no question in my mind but carried through on their word with no problems.

Whole deal took about 6 weeks.

I have about 30hrs in the plane now and everything works great aside from some rigging issues due to bent flaps which couldn't easily be fixed but are not a huge deal.  I have been up to 17500 on a ISA +++ day at 26/26 with room left in the turbo, radios work great (comm #2 antenna replaced), auto pilot works great, no oil burn, no fuel leak, no problems.

I can't comment on other people's deals only my own.  While my deal turned out a lot better in theory than I thought it would that is more through circumstances (stuff being broken) and AAA keeping true on their word and paying for it.  If everything would have been perfect and it had been a flawless annual would have been just as happy.  I felt Don and his team did well by me as did Jimmy & Dave (and Paul Whetstone pointed out some concerns which turned out not to be concerns but he gave some good sage advice for a reasonable appraisal fee).  I would definitely recommend all of them to anyone.

The only word of advice I would offer is Dave, Jimmy, and Don are all Texan's and they are a different breed which you need to adapt to.  They definitely don't like to deal too much on price (see other posts and I picked this feeling up doing the deal), but if you are fair to them they in turn are fair to you.  I would think if you try to stick it to them they are going to stick it back a bit and they probably are smarter on Mooney's than you are.  This isn't to imply that any of the people who felt wronged on this thread did this; I am just giving my small opinion (this paragraph) and the facts (all the preceding paragraphs) out of my deal.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: M20F

I just bought a M20F from AAA and here are my findings from primarily dealing with Dave M.

I have been up to 17500 on a ISA +++ day at 26/26 with room left in the turbo, radios work great (comm #2 antenna replaced), auto pilot works great, no oil burn, no fuel leak, no problems.

[PTK]

Quote: Becca

Why did you pay the mechanic for a prebuy in advance of the actual inspection?  I didn't think this was SOP (regardless of the broker, I would not pay a mechanic before he actually did the work).

[M20F]

Quote: KLRDMD

[Skywarrior]

allsmiles:  "There is nothing else to the story!"

Yes, there is more to the story, Peter.

 

Chuck M.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: M20F

[Ksaunders]

Wow!  I'm working with a broker right now in MN that is helping me find my first Mooney.  He seems to have found me a great plane that totally meets my expectations.  He obviously listens very well.  I realize he is working for the seller but how does a working stiff like me dedicate the time to search the world over looking for that perfect bird?  It would take months to find, travel to, arrange inspections, etc to qualify a plane for purchase.   

There needs to be someone out there we can trust with a database of assets, connections, and the appropriate service people to "qualify" the machine before we "Show them the Money".  We should also have a checklist (Checklists Save Lives) of items to research on our brokers and their backgrounds before we approve them as "Trusted for Hire".

I am the Sales Director of a major manufacturing company.  Our best asset when closing deals are satisified customer referrals.  Maybe a quick check on some references before we get too deep in the sack would ease our concerns.

You have all opened my eyes to the evils that want access to my hard earned cash.  As a sales person myself, I am obviously too trusting of the brotherhood. 

So now I ask, feedback out ther good/bad/ugly on the services provided by Tim Lundquist at Strategic Aircraft??????  He seems to be outstanding.