Landing without landing light

[Mooneymite]

For me, the question is moot.

Unless there is operational necessity (i.e. an emergency) I choose not to fly single engine at night with, or without lights.

That's for private pilots and the young and/or bold pilots.  

 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

For me, the question is moot.

Unless there is operational necessity (i.e. an emergency) I choose not to fly single engine at night with, or without lights.

That's for private pilots and the young and/or bold pilots.  

Same here.  I haven't been single-engine night current since 1999 or 2000.  I don't see anything wrong with it, but it's just not for me anymore.  I'd rather be home or at a hotel drinking beer at night. 

[Raptor05121]

This is hilarious. I just did this last night. Landing light blew on my flight before last. Yesterday I tookoff at 5, and flew an hour away, started hangar flying with some old timers and came back during nighttime. No landing light AND landing from the right seat (let a friend get used to the J bar) and was a beautiful landing. Non envent if you've trained for it (my CFI insisted on it during primary).

My new LED landing light is sitting at the house right now

[Raptor05121]

Being on nightshift, my 'morning' is around 2-3pm and I go to bed at 6am. So during my 'day', the sun has already set. 50 of the 150 hours in my plane are at night. AND I'M OVER TBO

[Raptor05121]

8 hours ago, madjano said:

When I got home had LANCECASPER order me up a Parmetheus Plus from ACS.  Now the things I see during my early morning "laps" scare me. Literally a standoff on the taxi way with a coyote (thought it was the aiport dog at first).  I'm sure with havest that the deer will be thick right now too. But nice to be able to just keep the light on all the time.

4

How does the Parmetheus compare to the old 250W halogen?

[HRM]

Mooneys have landing lights?

[Hank]

Almost forgot about my first non-motivated start to instrument training. Went out with the CFII after work, wearing my sunglasses. Coming back home to land just after sunset, my freshly-installed landing light wouldnt stay on, and the switch was very hot.

So I had to land over the trees, after dark, with no landing light, while wearing my sunglasses because my regular glasses were still in my car . . . .

That was my second no-light landing over the trees, and my first in the Mooney. It has not been my last. At the CFII's urging, I added those details to the writeup in my logbook.

Then there was my nighttime BFR with High Performance Endorsement in a rental 182 with a bad alternator . . . at a towered field. Hey, the light gun works really well! But taxiing is quite difficult, at least that CFII knew the airport well.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Hank

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Same here.  I haven't been single-engine night current since 1999 or 2000.  I don't see anything wrong with it, but it's just not for me anymore.  I'd rather be home or at a hotel drinking beer at night. 

You sound retired.

- Robert

[HRM]

Not a Mooney story, but on my solo long cross country I lost a mag on the first leg. My instructor sent a mechanic out with one and by the time he got to me and fixed the 172 I was off a bit late. Leg two took me to either Ft. Pierce or Stuart, I can't recall which one. Anyway, the one I was supposed to be at was untowered, but as I came down for my T&G I saw a tower and wondered what it was doing there. That also explained why no one was on the radio and it did seem like other planes were avoiding me.

Because of the gators in Lake Okeechobee I decided to skirt it and that added a bit of time to my flight. I wound up landing in KVNC after nightfall. It was my first use of pilot controlled lighting, so cool. Anyway, I flew back the next morning and I think I overflew one of the MacDill restricted zones because an F15 flew right under me.

When I landed back at KSFB my instructor ran up and said something like "Where the hell..." and I said "Has the FAA called yet?".

Then I said, "You should have seen my night landing!"

Then he said "But you don't know how to land at night."

"I do now."

We can add "student pilots" to the old saw: "God looks out for fools and babies." 

[Andy95W]

33 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You sound retired.

- Robert

Not yet.  My job requires multi-engine night currency, but since it's not the same category and class, it don't count for the Mooney.

[Bartman]

As some of you may have suspected, I took off and landed last night without a landing light a couple of days ago. My 77J has a single light and it died away from home. Taxi before departure was slow, but no problem. Takeoff no problem and great smooth flight at 9K. Landing was a non-event but I did a full approach and cancelled on the ground since it was not a controlled airport. Landing was a non event and although I have landed both without a light and no runway lights but not both simultaneously, it had been a while.. If this were anything other than VMC then I probably would think twice, but that night was awesome weather and easy peasy lemon squeezy. 

I am replacing with LED

[cloud116]

When I did my XC night dual, my instructor and I landed at a small nontowered airport. It was one of those very dark nights with no moon. After we touched down, he asked if I remembered everything. I thought I had and was feeling relieved that I made a smooth landing. Then he told me to taxi, and giggled when we turned onto the black hole of a taxi-way. “Forgot to turn on the landing light,” I said as his giggle erupted into laughter.

We then flew back to our home airport, which was towered. As I was about to turn on the landing light, he said, “It just burned out, leave it off.” The landing was a non-issue.

A few years ago, I flew to an unfamiliar airport in order to go to an Eagles concert. I had called ahead because the only FBO advertised they closed at 10pm and I would not be taking off until about 11pm. The FBO said, “No worries. We have some VIPs who will not be leaving until about 11:30, so we’ll be here.” My response was, “I’m guessing I’m going to the same event as them, only facing a different direction.” Silence for a moment, and then she started laughing and just said, “Yup!.”

When I Landed, I was taxied up to the only other plane parked at the FBO; a beautiful Gulfstream.

The concert was fantastic. Glad I got to see and listen to Glenn Frey before he passed. 

I wanted to beat the crowd so bugged out when there were only a couple songs left. It was a dark, moonless night. When I discovered the taxi/landing light was burned out, I fiddled around trying to find if it was a loose wire or something else I could fix. While I was doing that, the black Suburbans pulled up and the band hopped out and entered the Gulfstream. I was jealous. They were gone within a minute or two.

After contemplating whether to spend the night, I recalled the dual XC, and had been lately flying at night a lot. I told the tower my light was burned out and they cranked up all the lights. It was great. I flew home to my non-towered airport, landed without incident, and gave thanks to God that I am so fortunate to have a great life, great wife..., and a Mooney.

[TargetDriver]

Interestingly enough, I was taught to land without using landing lights !  My first flight instructor who also happened to be my (ex) wife's uncle had a bajillion hours and was just one of those cool older guys that had flown everything. His unspoken claim to fame was flying A LOT in Vietnam. Low level recon ops, rocket support, AFASC, white plane supply runs...you get the idea. He had me doing waaay more than PPL req's when I took my practical at 42 hrs. My examiner (who knew my "uncle" well)  got a kick out of me doing extreme slow flight 360's with the stall warning horn blaring...in both directions...and then doing stall recovery. I bet him a sodie I could touchdown within 20 ft of any place he picked on the runway for my last full stop.  One of the best Dr Peppers I ever had...right after he signed me off !

When it came time for my night flight early in my PPL training we took off just before sunset and did some maneuvers until it was dark. He said go home. I did. We got in the pattern and he showed me how to turn on the PCL...walaaa, runway, taxiways, so cool to see our little 2800 ft small-town airport like that.  On final I asked about some landing lights so I could see the ground. He said Nope. That was my first attempt at pinching a hole in the left seat upholstery!  You're kidding right ??  Nope, just listen to me and do exactly what I tell you.  I did, we landed and I thought I had just slayed a giant.  I landed a plane in the dark !  The world was mine !  

That was our norm for weeks as my training progressed. He was very serious when he told me under no circumstances are you to turn on the landing lights. Okay.  One night short on final at maybe 3-400 feet he reached over and flipped on "that switch". I was like OMG I could do this with my eyes closed !!!!  Couldn't believe what the runway actually looked like at night with headlights on !   After that I actually preferred landing without lights !!  I eventually crept to the lighted side.

I love flying at night, always have always will. When I got my precious new 1980 K model two years ago, I let us get used to each other for about 30 hours then took her out for possibly her first ever (prob not really) lights out landing. Didn't want to scare her too bad too soon so she'd love me forever... She handled it like a pro and now she loves it as much as I do.  I'm going to reward her with new Alphabeams next month when I get back from my AFG deployment so me, my beautiful wife and my mistress can light up the world together at night.  

All of the times I have landed lights out were of course with very good airport lighting systems and good knowledge and familiarity of the intended runway. I do believe every pilot should practice this once in a while with a qualified right seater if you're not accustomed to doing it.  There are a hundred scenarios one could ponder but the worst of the worst - land at night no electricity...  whacha going to do when you get close to the ground?  Some may have no idea. Heaven forbid that ever happens to any of us but in our line-of-work or hobby, we practice for all sorts of emergency conditions so its not unknown to us when some level of shock, fear or anxiety could possibly overtake your emotions and bodily reactions. 

R

 

 

[Yetti]

Last annual in Feb I re aimed the light because I thought it was high.   Last night when I was on short final I saw the  Wheelen LED TRactor light lighting up the numbers.  Thinking wow that is a pretty good  light. And I got it aimed right.

[Mooneymite]

When I used to instruct in the P-3, the new pilots were relatively low time.  Everyonce in awhile I'd get a guy who tended to crash land at night.  The cure was to just turn off the landing lights on short final and remind him to look way down the runway.

With the lights on, they tended to look at the area of illumination and "spot the deck".

[madjano]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:43 PM, Raptor05121 said:

How does the Parmetheus compare to the old 250W halogen?

I think it is a huge improvement over the GE, Seems to have a better wash on the sides and I like that LED 5K white light.  Seems to light up the reflective paint of the runway better.  I thought about getting the "non pma'd" 8 degree whelen, but I dont like to put undue pressure on my AP.  And yes I wired it wrong the first time, but fortunately I didn't put it all back together before I tested it.

[steingar]

I love flying at night, but rarely do.  I think perhaps 2% pf my hours are nighttime ops.  I rarely seek it out due to the extra risk involved.

 

All that said, if the stars align I'll finally start training for the IR soon, and if I want to fly after work I'll be doing it in the dark.

[Tommy]

Not sure if it's legal to take off knowing that you don't have a working landing light.

But legality is one thing, safety is another. Flying at night is already difficult and risky enough, why make it more than necessary?

Edited October 30, 2017 by Tommy

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I love flying at night, but rarely do.  I think perhaps 2% pf my hours are nighttime ops.  I rarely seek it out due to the extra risk involved.

 

All that said, if the stars align I'll finally start training for the IR soon, and if I want to fly after work I'll be doing it in the dark.

Instrument training is best done at night. Even with a hood or foggles the light and shadows, during the day, are enough visual clues to control the plane. Even if you don't think so.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

I love flying at night, but rarely do.  I think perhaps 2% pf my hours are nighttime ops.  I rarely seek it out due to the extra risk involved.

 

All that said, if the stars align I'll finally start training for the IR soon, and if I want to fly after work I'll be doing it in the dark.

I did much of my Instrument training after work, fall, winter and spring, in Huntington, WV. Worked well. My XC included Fairfield County (daytime) in December. HTW is ~35 Mooney minutes due south of CMH, so it should work for you as well.

[Shadrach]

On 10/26/2017 at 11:36 PM, Immelman said:

First things first: The correct answer is that the light was operational before you took off but it burned out in flight. Don't self-incriminate.

Second, landing (a nosewheel airplane) without one is a  good thing to practice once in a while. I like to use a soft-field technique and leave just a bit of power to let it settle down in case I mis-judge my height.

Unless the regs have changed, I don't believe it's required equipment. 

I actually preferred landing without the landing light as a student and practiced night landings with and without.

 Departing without a LL would not raise my pulse in the least unless I was going into a busy airport. I prefer to leave mine on full time for recognition and want to be as visible as possible.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Shadrach

[tigers2007]

My best performance was about a month ago landing with dark sunglasses (prescription) on and no runway lighting. I didn't bring my regular glasses as my trip was supposed to be over well before sunset. Well I lost track of time. I experienced my first "Mooney bounce" and also my first Go Around (Code Brown). It was much darker outside for my second approach and I could actually see the Whelen LED landing light to range the runway. Landing was smooth as silk that time. After the landing I then realized that I should have tried my second COMM to activate the runway lights ... and it worked. No WAY I would leave without a working landing light (nor clear eyeglasses).

[Shadrach]

13 hours ago, Tommy said:

Not sure if it's legal to take off knowing that you don't have a working landing light.

But legality is one thing, safety is another. Flying at night is already difficult and risky enough, why make it more than necessary?

I would never advise someone to do something they find difficult and risky without an instructor on board.  Many of us were trained to land sans landing light and in the days of incandescents, failures were the norm not the exception.  What exactly is it that you find difficult about night flight? I quite enjoy it. Not because I find it challenging, but because it's normally cooler, smoother and visibility (all other things being equal) is better. No glare in the cockpit; lighted instruments are very clear in the dark.  The only downside I see to night ops are associated with an engine failure and an off airport landing in the dark. That would certainly be more challenging than the same emergency in daylight, but it only adds difficulty if it happens.

The Regs leave no doubt as to the legality. A landing light is NOT required for night VFR flight unless the flight is a commercial operation. And even then, there is no regulation requiring its use.   

Sec. 91.205 — Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.

(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Approved position lights.

(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.

(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.

(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and radio equipment.

(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, that are accessible to the pilot in flight.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Shadrach

[gsxrpilot]

15 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Instrument training is best done at night. Even with a hood or foggles the light and shadows, during the day, are enough visual clues to control the plane. Even if you don't think so.

One peek is worth a thousand cross checks.

[bradp]

7 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I would never advise someone to do something they find difficult and risky without an instructor on board.

I wouldn’t advise doing anything you find risky even with an instructor on board if you are the PIC.  If not you’re a willing passenger. 

I did a BFR at night including unusual attitudes under the hood.  That was a valuable training experience.