PIREP request for KRAP or KCUT?

[ragedracer1977]

My son is off to the Marine Corps end of next month.  He really wants to take a father/son trip before he goes and has decided he would really like to see Mount Rushmore and the Black Hills.  

We're looking at going 10NOV for a couple days.  Has anyone been up that way?  We would have to make one fuel stop, probably near Moab at KCNY.   

What is the weather like this time of year up there?  Snow, no snow?  Obviously weather is going to play a part, but I'm curious if this is an acceptable time of year for touring that part of the US.  I know it's usually pretty windy up there, but it looks like KRAP has nice crossing runways so crosswind shouldn't be too much of an issue.  

Thanks!

[peevee]

I usually skip krap and go into spearfish kspf. Fuel and hangars are real reasonable and you can stay in Deadwood and truck it down to Rushmore.

Snow would be unusual that early but not impossible.

[Danb]

My hats off to your son, I'm assuming west coast and San Diego vs Parris Island.

Go Corps.

[ragedracer1977]

5 minutes ago, peevee said:

I usually skip krap and go into spearfish kspf. Fuel and hangars are real reasonable and you can stay in Deadwood and truck it down to Rushmore.

Snow would be unusual that early but not impossible.

I had also looked at KCUT, but it seems a rental car is difficult to procure there.  Does KSPF have easy access to rentals?  That was my primary factor for looking at KRAP

[ragedracer1977]

Just now, Danb said:

My hats off to your sun, I'm assuming west coast and San Diego vs Parris Island.

Go Corps.

Yes, San Diego.  Which is much more convenient for us to go visit. 

I'm very proud of him.  

[Hank]

We flew into KRAP several years ago. The FBO had rental cars and got us a great room rate at the big hotel with an indoor water park (nearly half price; Great Wolf Lodge or some such). I didn't reserve anything ahead of time.

It's always windy there, and was my strongest crosssind landing at the time. But the runway is plenty long, no problem. Transient parking was on pierced metal, and the tie downs had chains.

As soon as you mention KRAP, people will start warning you to not land at the Air Force base, KRAP is to the south . . . Don't know how many times I was told that . . .

Congrats, have a great trip, and Semper Fi!

[peevee]

1 hour ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I had also looked at KCUT, but it seems a rental car is difficult to procure there.  Does KSPF have easy access to rentals?  That was my primary factor for looking at KRAP

Yeah, the fbo will handle it.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I've stopped at KRAP a few times and had good service there.  

Canyonlands is a great place to visit, under-appreciated by USA citizens compared to other parks. Rental cars at the airport.  Extraordinary beauty in Arches National Forest.  

Southern Utah is not likely to have much snow in early November. Ice aloft along your route further north is a near certainty unless you stay strictly VMC.  

Have fun: It is starkly beautiful country between AZ and ND.  

[peevee]

SD.....

[gsengle]

I had very good service including rental car a KRAP.


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[EricJ]

I just did this trip in my buddy's Cherokee for the eclipse, and then in my Mooney at the end of Sept/early Oct.  Rapid City is my original home town, and I travel there fairly regularly.   Moab (KCNY) is an excellent place to stop as it is roughly half way, and has a very nice terminal building with a pilot lounge with a kitchen, computer, etc.  The terminal dog's name is Rusty, and he's very nice.   Rangely, CO, is on the other side of the halfway mark and also has a lounge, etc., but isn't nearly as nice as Moab.

Whoever you rent a car with, talk to the local office about either picking you up at the FBO (Rapid Fuel if you're doing the self service) or having the car there for you.   If you're on Avis' preferred status they'll have the car there for you.   Tell them ahead of time what you're doing and you can leave the car there when you depart.

Ramp parking at KRAP can be a little confusing as the controllers and the locals may tell you two different places to park.  There are tie downs in the grass behind Rapid Fuel, and there are spots on the concrete ramp.   You will probably need your own tie downs at either.  The controllers try to send you to the grass behind Rapid Fuel/L&D Aviation, but the RF/L&D folks will send you to the ramp (just south of and in front of L&D).    I've parked in the grass and it's not a big deal, but apparently parking on the ramp is fine, too.   No fees either way.

Western South Dakota is part of an area called the "banana belt" because the weather is wildly variable and difficult to predict.   It can be 70s and gorgeous this time of year or blowing snow and miserably cold.   It will likely be a bit nippy, but also very likely to be sunny and nice.  Just keep an eye on it ahead of time.   I've had very good experience with ADS-B wx feeds along that route, so that should help.   I'm personally very cautious about flying there through the winter months because of the variability in the wx.

That trip is *super* scenic through N AZ and UT.   It's worth it just for that.

[carusoam]

Go before it gets incredibly cold...

The arctic air comes down across Canada dips into SD before heading back up to Canada in the east....

I visited with a Customer in Rapid City, SD.  The OAT indicator of his caddy was showing -12°F or so... and the wind on the ground was blowing 20mph or more... (flew in commercial, giant X-wind for the 19seater I was in...)

You get a good feeling what wind chill factor really means in those conditions.

Minneapolis gets a similar treatment, but much less remote.

Some of my favorite workmates came with a USMC background...

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye]

We love South Dakota.  We go there every year after Oshkosh.  I prefer KRAP rather than Spearfish because it is central to Mt. Rushmore and the Badlands.  Of course you have to stop at Wall Drugs on the way to the Badlands.  The FBO at Rapid City is great and we got the rental car there.  They have a new terminal.  It takes about an hour and a half to drive out to the Badlands.  It's a 45 minute drive up to Hill City and then another 20 minutes to Mt. Rushmore.  The train through the Black Hills is closed for the winter.  We took it last summer.  The Drive up Spearfish Canyon is beautiful with a stop for lunch and walk through Deadwood.  The FBO recommended the Cambria Suites and we really liked it.  

There have been some pretty good crosswinds in the summertime, but they always use Runway 32 and 14.

Have a great time!

[L. Trotter]

I am based KRAP and live in Rapid City-past 20 yrs.  I agree with everything that has been stated above. There is plenty to see and do in the local area. It is the off-season so some businesses, like the city of Keystone, will be closed. There's a Local saying this time of the year… 'If you don't like the weather wait a few minutes, it will change'.  The first week of November should be reasonable. It will be cool (mid 40-50's) in the early mornings and the evening. The days usually aren't too bad. It's highly unlikely you will need any pre-start heating. Statistically, you should not have troubles with snow. However, it's unpredictable. If it does snow, it won't last long. If you brush your wings off, by late morning you're good to go. If you want to hanger you'll need to do so through WestJet, the only staffed FBO . If you're OK with tie-downs most Single engines typically prefer behind L&D Aero on the grass (just west of the self-serve tanks-Rapid Fuel). Just taxi between the large hangers and you will see a large open area for perhaps 8 planes. It's never full and it's free. There are tires at each of the tie-down points. There should be chains inside the tires for your use.  This area is a little more sheltered then out on the tarmac where no tie downs are provided. 

It can get windy in Rapid City. I wouldn't worry too much about this. It is typically straight down the runway or close to it. Unless a system is passing through, it's typically VFR conditions. If there is a low layer overcast some of the other airports can be a little tricky to get into. With the hills the approaches are not very forgiving. The ILS into Rapid makes it easy. As previously mentioned the airbase is a few miles to the north. Recently, a commercial carrier landed on the airbase with a load of passengers. If you want an exciting trip you will never forget, make an impromptu visit to Ellsworth, AFB flight line. 

As an alternative for a rental car try the the FBO service Enterprise has 877-421-3722. This little secret Enterprise offers has works well for me. At other locations I have never been charged a delivery fee. (no, I have nothing to do with car rentals) 

If you decide on Rapid City send me a PM and we can talk-I may be able to hook a fellow mooniac with a place to stay.

 

[Cyril Gibb]

We went to KRAP last year.  Ramp tiedown with your own ropes is free at the Rapid Fuel end of the ramp, or you can use the grass. When you get self serve fuel, the code to get through Rapid Fuel building is on the bill.

Check with Rapid Fuel to make sure that’s still current info.  If I did it again I’d use the grass to get some protection from the screaming wind that damaged my paint with the slapping canopy cover.

 

[donkaye]

Sometimes it's better to pay the price for service.  Last year 2016, after Oshkosh we again stopped in Rapid City.  When I'm traveling in the summertime I ALWAYS have my plane hangared no matter the cost (Usually reasonable).  As we passed the airport on our way to the hotel after spending the day out at the Badlands, one of the fiercest storms I have ever experienced crossed our path.  The rain and hail and lightning was so strong that I had to pull over and was afraid the windshield was going to crack.  It lasted nearly 15 minutes. Thank goodness the plane was hangared!  I'll gladly pay for good service and WestJet gives it.

[ragedracer1977]

Well, our trip got canceled.  =(

The Marine Corps called yesterday and said "You're now leaving this Monday".  He was supposed to go the 27th. 

This being the first kid to leave the roost, I'm feeling a little sad to be honest.  

We're going to fly up to KCNY anyway on Friday just for a day trip.  One last day to spend with him while he's still my 'kid'.  

[EricJ]

That's a good, scenic trip.    Should be fun.

[Hank]

12 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Well, our trip got canceled.  =(

The Marine Corps called yesterday and said "You're now leaving this Monday".  He was supposed to go the 27th. 

This being the first kid to leave the roost, I'm feeling a little sad to be honest.  

We're going to fly up to KCNY anyway on Friday just for a day trip.  One last day to spend with him while he's still my 'kid'.  

Semper Fi!  Having grown up in the Marine Corps, it's a pretty good life. (Dad retired when I was in high school.)

[ragedracer1977]

Posted pics in the "today flight for 2017" thread.

Just a quick PIREP on KCNY.  First, if you aren't aware, the airport will be closed from Jan 1, 2018 - Apr 30, 2018.  They are widening and extending the runway.  

I was not impressed with the FBO.  AT ALL.  I called ahead and let them know I was coming and that I needed a rental car.  They don't do rental cars and we're actually sort of rude about it, so I called in to Enterprise and arranged for it to be dropped off Thursday afternoon so it would be there when I arrived Friday Morning. Here's how it went down.

I arrived and a 'follow me' car came out.  She tried to taxi me between 2 planes. See attached image for an example (just a screen capture off the 'net').  I'm not comfortable doing that.  Maybe I'm risk averse, but I just taxied around and we pushed it back in.  Much safer to me and the other planes.  

Told her I wanted the tanks topped off.  She said "Don't you just want to use the self serve?"  I said no, I'm fine paying the extra, I have limited time here and I don't want to spend it fueling the plane.  

I went inside.  Went to the counter and told them I needed to make sure the plane was topped off and put in a fuel order.  Asked for the keys and contract for the car.  What car?  We don't have a car for you.  

Call enterprise.  They say they dropped it off.  Go back the desk.  Enterprise says it's here.  Where is it?  "Oh, that was for you?  We thought it just didn't get picked up so we put the keys back in the enterprise lock box."  Me - what the hell?  I CALLED you and told you I was coming, when, AND how it was going to be arranged. Them - "we don't like dealing with rental cars."  So, I had to wait an hour for enterprise to drive out the field from Moab and get the keys back out of the lock box.  Enterprise was awesome.  Even knocked off a very significant amount on the rental fee for my hassled.  Redtail (FBO) didn't care.

Go spend our day.  Come back to the FBO before 5:30 so I can make sure my fuel is paid for before they close.  Get to the counter, let the lady know I need to pay for my fuel and get on my way.  "Ohh, we didn't fuel your plane.  Let me see if the lineman wants to do it, since it's almost time for him to go home."  IF HE WANTS TO DO IT?????  It should have been done already!!!

So, wait another 15 minutes for fuel.  

I was not impressed with their service or attitudes.  If I fly there again, I won't even bother talking to the folks at the FBO.  I'll just handle everything myself.  

[Cyril Gibb]

Make sure you post this pirep to AirNav and Foreflight (if you use that).

[carusoam]

RagedPilot, 

I was under the impression that flying was to improve some of the ordinary time spending activities...

If you didn't supply the pic, I would have thought you weren't actually at an airport...  

Sounds like you got the new hire of the week.

Thanks for sharing the details...

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Posted pics in the "today flight for 2017" thread.

Just a quick PIREP on KCNY.  First, if you aren't aware, the airport will be closed from Jan 1, 2018 - Apr 30, 2018.  They are widening and extending the runway.  

I was not impressed with the FBO.  AT ALL.  I called ahead and let them know I was coming and that I needed a rental car.  They don't do rental cars and we're actually sort of rude about it, so I called in to Enterprise and arranged for it to be dropped off Thursday afternoon so it would be there when I arrived Friday Morning. Here's how it went down.

Sounds like a bit of a clown show. 

There's an Enterprise desk in the terminal.   Is that where you were dealing with this?

I've been there several times for fuel but have only ever used the self-serve.   My experience in the terminal (I'm wondering if that's different than the FBO now...) has always been good, but I've never asked much of them.