Should I grab this abandoned Mooney?

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Dan at FUL said:

You can buy a pick set for a reasonable price, too: https://www.southord.com/     Check your state's laws, but they are often legal to own.  

Sure but then you are caught with burgler tools...there are always wiper blades around... and legal to have

[Bolter]

1 minute ago, Yetti said:

Sure but then you are caught with burgler tools...there are always wiper blades around... and legal to have

You already have burglar tools, didn't you know that? "... crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slide hammer, ... ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool..."  I especially like "or other instrument or tool"    Which includes a homemade lockpick that was configured from a wiper blade expressly for the purpose of getting into a locked airplane.  Felonius intent has to be proven.  I am not a lawyer, so this is just an opinion of a private pilot...  

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=466.&lawCode=PEN

California Penal Code - §s 466-469. Burglarious And Larcenous Instruments And Deadly Weapons. 
§ 466. Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slide hammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle …, , or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car, aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle …, without being requested to do so by some person having the right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty of a misdemeanor. 

[gitmo234]

On 8/3/2017 at 10:48 AM, Fookz92 said:

We did PM and we are starting over. I was just replying to the gentleman above. I read it as he was coming down on me for posting N#. Nothing negative meant here towards you.

Sorry man, I didnt mean it to sound like I was coming down on you. I was sympathetic. My apologies

Edited August 4, 2017 by gitmo234

[M20FanJesse]

Sorry guys its been a tough week for me. 

About the Mooney...The 98 year old gentleman is still alive and isn't giving it up as easily as the family hoped. He seems to go from wanting to sell it to deciding to keep it, daily. 

Until he officially decides to let it go, we will have to wait. 

[Raptor05121]

Any way to work out a deal to restoring it and him getting to fly it or hold a share of it?

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, M20FanJesse said:

Sorry guys its been a tough week for me. 

About the Mooney...The 98 year old gentleman is still alive and isn't giving it up as easily as the family hoped. He seems to go from wanting to sell it to deciding to keep it, daily. 

Until he officially decides to let it go, we will have to wait. 

He needs to meet you and see your enthusiasm about flying. Bring him a t-shirt . . lol

[Mr Bill]

Jesse,  Agree with Landscaper. He needs to see your enthusiasm, and yea, bring him a "T" shirt. I wasn't trying to be a "naysayer" with my previous post. I just don't want to see you get burned with a huge corrosion bill.  An airplane sitting in a hangar is an attractive home for critters, and they are usually hidden. If you can get the owner to deal with you and you get a SB-208B inspection that looks like this, I hope you can make this your bird.

By the way, N1018C registration just expired 7/31/2017  That needs to be taken care of by the owner ASAP.

http://www.mooney.com/en/sb/M20-208B.pdf

Regards, Mr Bill

[rbridges]

14 hours ago, M20FanJesse said:

Sorry guys its been a tough week for me. 

About the Mooney...The 98 year old gentleman is still alive and isn't giving it up as easily as the family hoped. He seems to go from wanting to sell it to deciding to keep it, daily. 

Until he officially decides to let it go, we will have to wait. 

would he be willing to sell you half, and maybe reinvest that money into getting the plane going?  Then you can buy him out later.  He keeps partial control of plane, you get in for less $$.  Could be a win-win if he's open minded.

[M20F-1968]

I guess I have to chime in on this one.  I bought a 1968 F model that sat in a dry hangar in Texas for 26 years.  I bought it after speaking with some Mooney shops who suggested I walk away.  I then hired Russel Stallings (SW Texas Aviation) to go look at it.  He took it apart more than it was already apart, and reported that it was a clean airframe, without corrosion, damage or hail.  I knowingly bought it as a project airplane.  I can still hear Russel saying to me, "Project airplanes are great, you get what you want in the end."  The hardest part of buying a non-flying airplane was finding mechanics on the field who were knowledgeable.  When you have a non-flying airplane, you are limited to the local talent, or lack there of.  I went through three A&P mechanics who could not do the project at hand (and were less than honest as well).  I ultimately found good people.  I used a sheetmetal mechanic from Gulfstream who did excellent work, a DER from Eurocopter, two I&A's and A&P and got the airplane flying.   Once I got it flying, I found some of the best mechanics and used them, and turned the airplane into what has been appraised as a one of a kind airplane and "probably the most expensive F model out there."  

I spent the first half of my life as a professional symphony orchestra musician competing for one of 20 positions nationally and was tenured in a position for 8 years.  Then I decided to take a more proven route and went to medical school at age 37.  The complete restoration of my airplane was at least as difficult as each of my careers (although both more frustrating and more fun at the same time).  A mentor of mine told me when I was in my 20's, that it is not the having that is fun, but rather the road to getting there.  There is truth to this as well.  

In the end I have a one of a kind airplane which represents a model that Mooney never made (looks like a modern Mooney, with an IO-360, RayJay turbo, Ovation interior, glass cockpit, a dream panel, onboard Oxygen,  Johnson bar and hydraulic flaps) .  The avionics are superb and does everything you would expect a J model to do, and more.  

You have to be sure that you have the time, patience, stamina, finances, love of the project and desire to see it through to the end.  My saving grace is I had the resources to turn a difficult project into the end product that I have.  If I spent as much time and effort to turn it into an average airplane, it would not have been as rewarding.  

You will not be able to assess the extent of those resources needed now, but will be clearly apparent when you are involved in the project  Your best guess of what it will take to make this into a nice J is only a guess at this stage.  My guess is, you will not be able to make this an nice and reliable aircraft for an additional $20,000.00.  I would double or triple that amount, and this is only to restore the aircraft back to what it was when it was flying.  That does not include any upgrades.  

That being said, the rebuilding of the plane can be a rewarding experience.  You will need a hangar in which to work, and all the shop tools necessary to work on anything on the airplane.  You could even use your the experience, under the supervision of your local A&P, to build the hours to get your own A&P license.  Then you will have accomplished the restoration of your aircraft and more.  Hire good people to help you, and treat them well.  My mistake was I hired and managed people from a distance.  Bad move.  That all got better when I hired excellent mechanics when were good honest people.

I hope that helps.

John Breda

 

 

 

[steingar]

My only other caution in this is that I think it a horrible idea to purchase a project for a first aircraft. There are a lot of ownership issues one must learn on the fly (if you'll forgive the pun) on aqcuiring an aircraft.  There are far, far more when one buys into a project.

[RLCarter]

47 minutes ago, steingar said:

My only other caution in this is that I think it a horrible idea to purchase a project for a first aircraft. There are a lot of ownership issues one must learn on the fly (if you'll forgive the pun) on aqcuiring an aircraft.  There are far, far more when one buys into a project.

In general yes, but it depends on the individual and the extent of the project 

[HRM]

21 hours ago, M20FanJesse said:

About the Mooney...The 98 year old gentleman is still alive and isn't giving it up as easily as the family hoped.

GET OUT!!! My LOL for the day, but let's get serious...

The other guys are right. Go cozy up to him, obviously he has no son (grandson, nephew, shoot even daughter, neice...) to pass it on to.

My son and daughter have turned their noses up to aviation, but my grandson is raring to go.

Play this right and he'll help you get it flying and then teach you how to fly it. He'd probably give anything to take it up again--I know I would.

[M20FanJesse]

Thats a possibility, however I really don't know the family at all, and they don't know me. I can tell by how the son and daughter were talking about the plane when we pulled it out, its a sensitive subject for them. If the opportunity arises, I might try to talk to them about my enthusiasm for mooneys.

[carusoam]

It takes time to let them get to know you.

Hank has a great example of how he bought half the plane from the owner.  The other half came with time...

You might get a few life lessons along the way...

End of life airplane thoughts...

1) It doesn't make much sense to hold onto a device you can't use...

2) There is nothing harder than admitting to yourself that you can't fly your own plane...

3) Letting it actually go, is close to impossible.

4) one thing a person may be interested in... the ability to have a discussion about flying Moonies...often...

5) Are you a talker?  Can you bridge multiple decades of differences between people?

Thoughts that come to mind...

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

Purchasing something is an emotional experience. Selling something can be just as emotional an experience. The question is if you can connect with them. I'll give you an example.

We had been renting a house for about five years across the street from a widow. We would often visit her and my son would go help her with a number of things around the house on a regular basis. She was a wonderful lady that we grew to love. For health reasons she decided to move back East to live with family and sell her home. She came to us and offered to sell it to us because she knew we needed a home and even more so because she loved our kids and wanted to have kids living in her home. (She and her husband never were able to have children). We told her what we could afford, which was way below the market value of her home (California real estate is ridiculous) and she agreed. We had a realtor provide her with a market analysis of her home so that she would know exactly what the value of it was and she still wanted to sell it to us for what we could afford. Knowing we would love her home as much as she did and again, that there would be kids in the home was more important than the money. We have told our kids that it is a miracle that we have this home and that it was all because of the kindness and generosity that she showed us. We keep a picture that we took with her the day before she moved on the mantle in the front room and have a picture of her and her husband on top of the piano as a reminder of what they did for us.

It may take time for you to connect with the family, but then I think you have time. It's not like you were planning to start flying that plane all over the place right away. It may be more important to them that the plane goes to someone who will love it and use it than to get as much money as they can from it, only time will tell. If that is the case, then can you make them believe that you are that person? If so, understand that it will most likely take a long time to establish that relationship.

[steingar]

10 hours ago, Skates97 said:

We had been renting a house for about five years across the street from a widow. We would often visit her and my son would go help her with a number of things around the house on a regular basis. She was a wonderful lady that we grew to love. For health reasons she decided to move back East to live with family and sell her home. She came to us and offered to sell it to us because she knew we needed a home and even more so because she loved our kids and wanted to have kids living in her home. (She and her husband never were able to have children). We told her what we could afford, which was way below the market value of her home (California real estate is ridiculous) and she agreed.

Same exact thing happened to a good friend.  Bought his farm from a widow who sold it below market value because she really liked him and his wife and really didn't need the money.  I know they bought is for less than a quarter million.  It took a million to replace the stables when they burned down.

[Jerry Pressley]

Jesse.  You will never find a greater guy than Rick.  His fame is all the way out here into the Smoky Mountains of NC/TN.  Have dealt with him many times and always always first class.  JerryPressley

[Guest]

On August 7, 2017 at 7:41 PM, M20FanJesse said:

Thats a possibility, however I really don't know the family at all, and they don't know me. I can tell by how the son and daughter were talking about the plane when we pulled it out, its a sensitive subject for them. If the opportunity arises, I might try to talk to them about my enthusiasm for mooneys.

Jesse,

I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe it's been said already.  See if you can work a deal with the owner, you do the bulk of the work for the annual with a willing IA, the owner pays the IA his fees, parts, ELT, pitot static etc.  Once airborne again you pay for some portion of the hangar, insurance etc. in trade for an agreed number of hours per month, once checked out you offer to take him up flying with you.

It gets you flying a Mooney, it gets hi up in his Mooney, and it saves the airplane.

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

An observation that probably won't help our young entrepreneur but seems worth sharing. 

I know that for some folks, including some here, the bottom line is money. It is after all how Gordon Gekko kept score. The guy who dies with the most toys wins. The greatest sin is to spend too much for something and to take a loss.

But stories like Richard Brown's remind us that that principle is faulty. As John Breda or Chris Findley or any number of owners here will attest, satisfaction, even joy, comes from something else much more human than money. (I too have knowingly spent money on an older Mooney that I will not get back except in satisfaction. And I am not through.)

I've caught up reading this thread this morning and I'm glad I took the time, I was several pages behind, and I'm struck with the contrast. Old Gordo lives here with the green shades but the tears of joy come from Richard. Thanks, Skates!

[HRM]

I personally like the whole thing, the GA universe, but only as it is centered on my Mooney. I like to fly it, I like to clean it, I like to work on it, I like to talk about...well, you get the idea. I frankly do not think I would be like this with any other AC.

[M20FanJesse]

16 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

Jesse.  You will never find a greater guy than Rick.  His fame is all the way out here into the Smoky Mountains of NC/TN.  Have dealt with him many times and always always first class.  JerryPressley

Haha thats great to hear! He's one of my closest friends, glad he's well known. 

 

As far as the mooney goes, I'm still doing what I can to get to know the owner and family and keep up on things, but from what I gather this whole "airplane thing" is a sore subject for them right now. It's not going anywhere, so I'm not worried, and if it did, it will likely be Rick or me that knows first.

[steingar]

I wouldn't deal with this on a bet.  Old guy wants to keep his airplane, fine.  if his kids can't talk any sense into him that's their problem.  Life is too dang short to deal with crap like this. Linda working airplane that you can get in and fly.  Mooney made lots.

 

Oh, and I like the T-shirt.

[BigAl]

I just ordered one of those shirts. Thanks!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BigAl said:

I just ordered one of those shirts. Thanks!

I'd order one too, but it appears that my tails is on backwards and my engine is too big.

Clarence

[Godfather]

24 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I'd order one too, but it appears that my tails is on backwards and my engine is too big.

Clarence

I thought you fixed planes...just flip the tail around. We'll let you keep the extra cylinders.