Cirrus Jet Economics

[cnoe]

You've got a keeper there -- a GF who likes to fly with you. 
Buy her a turboprop.  
 
 

It's disappointing that some of you have difficulty getting your wives/girlfriends to fly with you. Many MSers travel far and wide with their significant others.

My wife isn't interested in becoming a pilot but she makes a great crew-member backing me up on communications and operations. For her, the love of travel overcomes any apprehension about flying in a 40 year-old plane. I strive to fly smoothly and openly communicate about everything during the flight to keep her in the loop.

Others' spouses are much more involved in flying being pilots themselves or trained right-seaters. Some fly their non-pilot husbands around.

Even more impressive are the many professional female pilots such as my primary flight instructor who was in North Carolina last week earning her Honda-Jet type rating.

We don't have enough pilots of the female persuasion.


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[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

50cc Honda scooter - 0.145 gph, 15.5 knots.  Mogas.  Economy king.

Sure, but you look like one of those circus apes riding it.

[aviatoreb]

Just now, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

Sure, but you look like one of those circus apes riding it.

Or maybe a circus bear.

[AndyFromCB]

11 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

I have to admit, the Cirrus Jet is kind of sexy. To think that one could step into a turbine airplane and feel comfortable in fairly short order is kind of neat. If I had a couple of million lying around I'd be tempted.

But for fun this morning I ran the performance numbers as best I could compared to my Ovation. I couldn't find this data outright, but based on their range and weight numbers I estimated that in economy cruise you'll burn 47 GPH for a speed of 240 KTAS at 28,000'. In my Ovation Economy Cruise at 15,000' is 170 KTAS and 12 GPH. So, practically 4x the fuel burn for 1.4x the speed.

But hey, if you can afford the jet, you ought not be worrying about buying fuel. I still think they're gorgeous airplanes.

Actually, not that much more on per nm/basis

 

47 * $3 = $141 / 240nm = .58cents of fuel per nm (JetA can be had cheaper than that, but $3 seems to be the going rate right now with contract fuel)

12 * $6 = $72 / 170 = .42cents of fuel per nm

Pressurized and above most weather, chance of engine failure: pretty close to zero. Not a bad aircraft if they can keep it around $2million. Perfect east coast airplane for short 400nm hops.

Edited June 14, 2017 by AndyFromCB

[AndyFromCB]

11 hours ago, peevee said:

Yoopers lancair strikes me as the best bang for your buck out there. You can pick one up for 400k.

Again the insurance though?

Don't forget to factor in lost wages when you augur it in, IIRC about 25% of them have so far become a statistic. Buddy of mine had one for a long, long time, plus an Epic. I would not fly in either one. Singles that cross the fence at 100knots scare me.

[peevee]

7 minutes ago, AndyFromCB said:

Don't forget to factor in lost wages when you augur it in, IIRC about 25% of them have so far become a statistic. Buddy of mine had one for a long, long time, plus an Epic. I would not fly in either one. Singles that cross the fence at 100knots scare me.

Eh, what's another 20 knots.

[peevee]

41 minutes ago, cnoe said:

 

It's disappointing that some of you have difficulty getting your wives/girlfriends to fly with you. Many MSers travel far and wide with their significant others.

My wife isn't interested in becoming a pilot but she makes a great crew-member backing me up on communications and operations. For her, the love of travel overcomes any apprehension about flying in a 40 year-old plane. I strive to fly smoothly and openly communicate about everything during the flight to keep her in the loop.

Others' spouses are much more involved in flying being pilots themselves or trained right-seaters. Some fly their non-pilot husbands around.

Even more impressive are the many professional female pilots such as my primary flight instructor who was in North Carolina last week earning her Honda-Jet type rating.

We don't have enough pilots of the female persuasion.


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Mine all but refuses to fly. It's kind of to the point that I should probably hang up flying because it's just not worth the expense to keep current for one or two real, actual uses a year. We have a trip planned in August and that might be the end of it.

It's that or find an upgrade, but that's expensive.

[gsengle]

Actually, not that much more on per nm/basis
 
47 * $3 = $141 / 240nm = .58cents of fuel per nm (JetA can be had cheaper than that, but $3 seems to be the going rate right now with contract fuel)
12 * $6 = $72 / 170 = .42cents of fuel per nm
Pressurized and above most weather, chance of engine failure: pretty close to zero. Not a bad aircraft if they can keep it around $2million. Perfect east coast airplane for short 400nm hops.

I'm generally paying more like $4.75 for avgas


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[kpaul]

The PC-12 is my dream aircraft, easy to load, comfortable, fun to fly, can land anywhere a Mooney can, but is happier on dirt and turf than a Mooney.  It is efficient for a turbine, cruises on about 35 gal per hour @ 220KTAS in the low 20s.  it does burn about 75 gal per hour in the climb though.

[co2bruce]

6 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

I'm generally paying more like $4.75 for avgas


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We are paying 5.50-6.25 in South Florida. No to mention the highest hanger rental imaginable.

 

My wife will fly with me if we are going somewhere, not just for fun or a quick meal. Crew Member? If her job description is playing games on the iPad she's a crew member.

[cnoe]

We are paying 5.50-6.25 in South Florida. No to mention the highest hanger rental imaginable.

That's crazy. I haven't paid more than $3.62 for months at my home base. 7,000' runway w/ILS and approach lighting.


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[Joe Zuffoletto]

Cirrus brought their entire lineup of aircraft to my home drome a couple weekends ago, including the jet. The jet is definitely impressive. I sat in the front and the back and was blown away by how roomy it is. And I'm sure it's easier to fly than my Acclaim.

I always thought that I would only give up my Acclaim for a TBM or a PC-12, but now there's this jet that sits right in between. Very interesting.

[Oldguy]

2 hours ago, peevee said:

Mine all but refuses to fly. It's kind of to the point that I should probably hang up flying because it's just not worth the expense to keep current for one or two real, actual uses a year. We have a trip planned in August and that might be the end of it.

It's that or find an upgrade, but that's expensive.

I have said it before and will again - I am lucky in that arena. When we had the Cessna, my wife was the one who said we needed a faster plane like a Mooney because she like to go fast. Who am I to argue with logic like that?

So, a Rocket, eh? Hmmmmm....

[Robert C.]

15 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

But for fun this morning I ran the performance numbers as best I could compared to my Ovation. I couldn't find this data outright, but based on their range and weight numbers I estimated that in economy cruise you'll burn 47 GPH for a speed of 240 KTAS at 28,000'. In my Ovation Economy Cruise at 15,000' is 170 KTAS and 12 GPH. So, practically 4x the fuel burn for 1.4x the speed.

Interesting...according to Flying Magazine the Piper M600 will do about 275 kts at that fuel flow (max cruise...it drinks 39gph at economy cruise). Priced around $3 million with the popular options which I think is close to the Cirrus Jet price? 

[steingar]

Sucks for you guys.  Mrs. Steingar flies with me if we're going somewhere or doing something social.  She doesn't come along for my little runway safaris.  She spots traffic and airstrips faster than me.  She even flies with me though she gets airsick.  The little magic bracelet was the best 0.1 AMU I ever spent.

[RobertGary1]

15 hours ago, BradB said:

Agree to all the points except my request is for a turbine PRESSURIZED Mooney.  

My girlfriend complains about wearing oxygen.  

My girlfriend complains more about flying in the clouds than wearing oxygen 

I don't like it when she complains while we are flying. 

I do like my girlfriend. She doesn't complain about all that much.  And she does fly with me. 

Help me out here Mooney!

brad. 

You can always just get another one. Girlfriends are a dime a dozen. 

-Robert 

[TheTurtle]

My wife sat in the plane once in the hangar.  "It's small, it smells like gas, it's old, it's awful"  

Took her for a lap around Honolulu in a rental 172.  After a couple 360s for landing f22s there was an entire Acai bowl down the side of that poor little 172...  and mooney's don't have passenget windows...

Edited June 14, 2017 by TheTurtle

[Bravoman]

21 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

As long as we're doing the math... there are many more girlfriend options than airplane options. Of course the operating expense of girlfriends is much higher than a comparable aircraft... but still lower than a wife.

i.e. Better to rent then buy, but that's a whole different discussion!

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, Bravoman said:

i.e. Better to rent then buy, but that's a whole different discussion!

Women and airplanes . . . Both are expensive to chase, and more expensive to catch . . . .  

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

On the Jet thing, apart from the fact it looks like a bottle nosed dolphin....The insurance in the UK is £60,000 a year, thats 3-4 % of the purchase price, rather than the usual 1%.  The reason is that the insurance companies have no history or anything to compare this to and so YOU are paying for their learning curve and the learning curve of every one else who flies one, ie whats the depreciation hull value after 6 months, what AD's are going to come out to ground her etc.

 

Does that include turbo prop?

Honestly I don't see what the cirrus jet does that a single engine turbo prop doesn't do better.  Similar ceiling (STP is higher), similar speed (STP is faster - tbm is much faster), similar runway requirements, (STP is better) similar fuel burn (STP is better), similar seating (some of the STP are better), similar cost of acquisition - when new (for some models) (but many of the STP have been around for a while so you also have the possibility of buying a very well priced well maintained used model).

TBM.

[BradB]

21 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

You can always just get another one. Girlfriends are a dime a dozen. 

-Robert 

Mine always end up being more expensive than that. 

[BradB]

On 6/14/2017 at 9:02 AM, Jerry 5TJ said:

You've got a keeper there -- a GF who likes to fly with you. 

Buy her a turboprop.  

 

 

It looks like I may be headed that way.

[BradB]

On 6/14/2017 at 10:21 AM, peevee said:

Mine all but refuses to fly. It's kind of to the point that I should probably hang up flying because it's just not worth the expense to keep current for one or two real, actual uses a year. We have a trip planned in August and that might be the end of it.

It's that or find an upgrade, but that's expensive.

Upgrading the wife or the plane?  But yes, doing either is expensive.

[jetdriven]

57 minutes ago, BradB said:

Upgrading the wife or the plane?  But yes, doing either is expensive.

Those two are very similar to boats.  You always pay for but never own them. But at least you can sell the boat and get some of your money back.

Edited June 15, 2017 by jetdriven

[Mcstealth]

On June 13, 2017 at 11:27 PM, BradB said:

Agree to all the points except my request is for a turbine PRESSURIZED Mooney.  

My girlfriend complains about wearing oxygen.  

My girlfriend complains more about flying in the clouds than wearing oxygen 

I don't like it when she complains while we are flying. 

I do like my girlfriend. She doesn't complain about all that much.  And she does fly with me. 

Help me out here Mooney!

brad. 

Now that, was funny.