rocket oil quick drain fitting

[peevee]

We do not have the quick drain fitting and hose for our 520. Looking at the way the tubing is run, they probably all came with one. I'm hoping this means it's a common fitting between all of the conversions and someone can tell me what it is so I can locate and purchase.

It really sucks to sit there and hold it open to drain.

[M016576]

12 minutes ago, peevee said:

We do not have the quick drain fitting and hose for our 520. Looking at the way the tubing is run, they probably all came with one. I'm hoping this means it's a common fitting between all of the conversions and someone can tell me what it is so I can locate and purchase.

It really sucks to sit there and hold it open to drain.

A picture might help...of the drain, that is.  Not sure if the drain is common between the rocket and the missile- wouldn't want to send you in the wrong direction.

actually- even better- call Rocket engineering- they probably can tell you where to get one or if it's a custom part- sell you one.  They helped me with my engine mount about a year ago: they are still supporting the STC

Edited March 6, 2017 by M016576

[peevee]

I emailed them and got no reply, but good idea, I'll try and call tomorrow. Can't get a pic, cowl is back on post change.

[Yooper Rocketman]

You need the drain tube.  It's about a foot long and clips on the drain fitting.  I'll get you a picture of it if you want.  Should have come with the plane like the battery board.  

Tom

[Seth]

37 minutes ago, peevee said:

I emailed them and got no reply, but good idea, I'll try and call tomorrow. Can't get a pic, cowl is back on post change.

They are usually very responsive.  I have gotten great service every time I've needed anything from them, even no parts, just information or reccomendarions.

-Seth

[peevee]

4 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

You need the drain tube.  It's about a foot long and clips on the drain fitting.  I'll get you a picture of it if you want.  Should have come with the plane like the battery board.  

Tom

Previous owner never had either so I got a battery board but I don't have the drain. 

[peevee]

Rocket's got em, $250

It is what it is I guess. Real nice folks.

[SWL]

Just purchased two quick drain connectors from Bogert Aviation for my M20K Rocket.  One has a straight connection, the other a 90deg. connection - not sure yet which one is needed.  Image of each connector is attached.0

Bogert Contact Info:  800-628-8088, 509-736-1513, or info@bogert-av.com with your questions.

Good luck!

Steve

[carusoam]

SWL,

do you have a link to go with those photos? There should be a few details that go with that.

while you are doing some homework, add some data to your avatar... 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 21, 2017 by carusoam

[DonMuncy]

I don't know the Rocket engine. Is it clear from the drain plug down. If so, definitely use the straight one. If anything is in the way, you might need the 90 degree one to clear everything.

[peevee]

2 hours ago, SWL said:

Just purchased two quick drain connectors from Bogert Aviation for my M20K Rocket.  One has a straight connection, the other a 90deg. connection - not sure yet which one is needed.  Image of each connector is attached.0

Bogert Contact Info:  800-628-8088, 509-736-1513, or info@bogert-av.com with your questions.

Good luck!

Steve

Those are not correct

The fitting from rocket has grippers that snap on to the fitting and hold the drain tube on while depressing the center so it drains.

[jlunseth]

Once upon a time there was a pilot who had a nifty turbocharged aircraft equipped with a quick drain fitting that the mechanics all really appreciated.  The pilot and his co-pilot were intending to fly from Minneapolis to Niagara, over Lake Michigan and in the twilight, to get there.  When the pilot preflighted his nifty turbocharged aircraft he found one tiny dot of unfamiliar oil on the nose tire.  So the pilot, being, he thought, a good, safe, above average pilot, had the plane wheeled into the shop for the mechanics to look at.  The mechanics said, oh don't worry about it, it is just the quick drain dripping and they all do that.  The pilot said, "Are you certain, because we are going to overfly Lake Michigan and with the delay to check the plane out, it will be in the dark."  The mechanic said, "No problem, they just all do that."

About two hours later the pilot had crossed the eastern shore of Lake Michigan, thankfully, and was at 19,000 with a nifty 75 knot tailwind, very pleased with himself, when a magic box called a JPI 930 spoke to him and said that his oil pressure was 14 lbs.  "Uh, oh," the pilot though to himself, "it should be about 40 lbs." He tried a few things and it was still 14 lbs., so knowing what had happenned and what was going to come next (his oil was gone and the engine was going to freeze up and stop), and being blown by the nifty tailwind very quickly out over Lakes Erie and Huron (which are pretty big east to west), our pilot declared an emergency with Canadian ATC and put the plane in a rapid descent.  Some would call it a dive, but let's not panic.  The difficult part was that in the dark, over Canada, the nifty tailwind had also blown our pilot and his co-pilot into the back side of some weather, so the nifty dive, uh, rapid descent (who knows, the VSI was pegged), the pilot had to rely on some other magic boxes called "instruments" to make the passage to a lower altitude, without exceeding a magic speed called "Vne" where the plane would magically disappear, with the engine throttled back to save it if needed to make an airport, and to escape the nifty tailwind.  Oh, and the next designated magic carpet landing area called "London, Ontario" was only 20 nautical miles distant, then more water. 

At one point, the co-pilot asked "Is there anything I can do," and the pilot, short on time, oil and alot of other things at that moment snapped "No" and so she (the co-pilot) shut up, for which the pilot was grateful.  

To make a long story short, our pilot was able to make a safe landing between the crash trucks at the end of the runway, the oil pressure having fallen to 6 psi.  He taxied to the magic carpet ramp, where the Fire Chief climbed off the fire truck that had followed the pilot and his co-pilot in, took one look at the oil dripping off the entire underside of the aircraft, held out his hand, and said, "Nice landing, Captain."  The pilot was not a Captain of anything on most days, but maybe on that day, he was.

The very next day, another mechanic took the quick drain apart and found that a tiny piece of plastic that had been swimming around in the oil, had lodged in the quick drain, preventing it from completely sealing, and when the pilot ran is his nifty turbocharged engine the pressure in his nifty crankcase had caused all the nifty oil to blow out of his nifty engine.  Well, almost all, it turned out that the tiny piece of plastic had a larger friend, a piece of rubber, that the plastic was swimming with.  They must have been having a skinny dipping session.  At any rate, when the oil got low enough, the piece of rubber had saved the last two quarts from departing.

So the pilot and his airplane lived happily ever after, after all.

So you just watch that quick drain.  This has happened more than once, to more than one pilot, and the prior owner might have had his reasons for taking it out.

Every year at annual, you should have your mechanic remove the quick drain and drain the oil through the big hole, to get all the skinny dippers out of the oil.  Every few years you should have a "kit" installed so the quick drain is sealing well, so nothing this nifty ever happens to you.

The End.

[XXX]

8 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Once upon a time there was a pilot who had a nifty turbocharged aircraft equipped with a quick drain fitting that the mechanics all really appreciated.  The pilot and his co-pilot were intending to fly from Minneapolis to Niagara, over Lake Michigan and in the twilight, to get there.  When the pilot preflighted his nifty turbocharged aircraft he found one tiny dot of unfamiliar oil on the nose tire.  So the pilot, being, he thought, a good, safe, above average pilot, had the plane wheeled into the shop for the mechanics to look at.  The mechanics said, oh don't worry about it, it is just the quick drain dripping and they all do that.  The pilot said, "Are you certain, because we are going to overfly Lake Michigan and with the delay to check the plane out, it will be in the dark."  The mechanic said, "No problem, they just all do that."

About two hours later the pilot had crossed the eastern shore of Lake Michigan, thankfully, and was at 19,000 with a nifty 75 knot tailwind, very pleased with himself, when a magic box called a JPI 930 spoke to him and said that his oil pressure was 14 lbs.  "Uh, oh," the pilot though to himself, "it should be about 40 lbs." He tried a few things and it was still 14 lbs., so knowing what had happenned and what was going to come next (his oil was gone and the engine was going to freeze up and stop), and being blown by the nifty tailwind very quickly out over Lakes Erie and Huron (which are pretty big east to west), our pilot declared an emergency with Canadian ATC and put the plane in a rapid descent.  Some would call it a dive, but let's not panic.  The difficult part was that in the dark, over Canada, the nifty tailwind had also blown our pilot and his co-pilot into the back side of some weather, so the nifty dive, uh, rapid descent (who knows, the VSI was pegged), the pilot had to rely on some other magic boxes called "instruments" to make the passage to a lower altitude, without exceeding a magic speed called "Vne" where the plane would magically disappear, with the engine throttled back to save it if needed to make an airport, and to escape the nifty tailwind.  Oh, and the next designated magic carpet landing area called "London, Ontario" was only 20 nautical miles distant, then more water. 

At one point, the co-pilot asked "Is there anything I can do," and the pilot, short on time, oil and alot of other things at that moment snapped "No" and so she (the co-pilot) shut up, for which the pilot was grateful.  

To make a long story short, our pilot was able to make a safe landing between the crash trucks at the end of the runway, the oil pressure having fallen to 6 psi.  He taxied to the magic carpet ramp, where the Fire Chief climbed off the fire truck that had followed the pilot and his co-pilot in, took one look at the oil dripping off the entire underside of the aircraft, held out his hand, and said, "Nice landing, Captain."  The pilot was not a Captain of anything on most days, but maybe on that day, he was.

The very next day, another mechanic took the quick drain apart and found that a tiny piece of plastic that had been swimming around in the oil, had lodged in the quick drain, preventing it from completely sealing, and when the pilot ran is his nifty turbocharged engine the pressure in his nifty crankcase had caused all the nifty oil to blow out of his nifty engine.  Well, almost all, it turned out that the tiny piece of plastic had a larger friend, a piece of rubber, that the plastic was swimming with.  They must have been having a skinny dipping session.  At any rate, when the oil got low enough, the piece of rubber had saved the last two quarts from departing.

So the pilot and his airplane lived happily ever after, after all.

So you just watch that quick drain.  This has happened more than once, to more than one pilot, and the prior owner might have had his reasons for taking it out.

Every year at annual, you should have your mechanic remove the quick drain and drain the oil through the big hole, to get all the skinny dippers out of the oil.  Every few years you should have a "kit" installed so the quick drain is sealing well, so nothing this nifty ever happens to you.

The End.

I like stories with happy endings. I'll heed that advice as well. Just so happens I found a small drop of oil on the hangar floor yesterday. Unusual for my engine and I do have the quick drain. 

[jlunseth]

Chapter II.

So, ok, it was not really the end, because our pilot and co-pilot woke up the next morning in a foreign country, called Can-something or other.  The people there were friendly and helpful enough, the Fire Chief having been a good example.  But this was not long after a not-so-magic event called "nine-one-one" and the pilot and co-pilot, never having intended to spend time with the good natured Canadian people, both lacked the magic they needed to get back to Kansas, aka their own country.  The usual magic is passports and something new at the time called eAPIS codes, both of which the pilot had, but they were back in Kansas.  

So the next morning the pilot had to call a group of people in Kansas whose job it was to act gruff, and to huff and puff about things, to get back to Kansas.  He talked to huffers and puffers in Buffalo, then Washington, and then in Ottawa, and finally one of them huffed and puffed and said, "I am going to have to call the CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY, a large being in Washington, to see if we can let you back in to Kansas.  I will call you back in an hour."

An hour later, the phone rang and the huffer and puffer said that the large being in Washington had granted permission to come back to Kansas without penalty on one condition."  "What condition" the pilot timidly asked.  "You have to go to Buffalo, not Niagara, we don't have anyone in Niagara to wave their wand and let you in the gate."  The pilot happily agreed, not remembering that Buffalo is a place where much larger magic carpets than his were present in large numbers.  So the pilot and his co-pilot flew to Buffalo and landed between a really big magic carpet called something like "737" and another one called something like "MBraer" the pilot was really not paying attention he just knew they were really big, and went and saw the wand waver who huffed and puffed some more about why the pilot had not filed a magic eAPIS plan, but let the pilot in anyway.

And of course, the pilots nifty airplane went into the shop some time later, where a mechanic said, "you have ring slap."  Apparently, if a plane is put in a rapid descent (or dive, who knows) and the engine is powered down and the prop drives the engine rapidly, the nifty piston rings are not held against the nifty cylinder walls by nifty compression, and so they sort of rattle around.  At any rate, the pilot got to have a mechanic shop do a nifty IRAN on the whole engine, which cost some sea shells to do, but that's ok because the engine ran alot better than it ever had and alot longer too.

OK, now, The End.

Edited April 22, 2017 by jlunseth

[peevee]

On the t-520 to remove the oil drain you have to basically remove the turbo. So, it is a necessary piece of equipment. It's not like these nifty whatever you want to call it are there to save 2 minutes of nifty time or 55 nifty more niftys.

[jlunseth]

I don't have anything against quick drains, I still have mine but it is now serviced regularly and I watch it for any signs of leakage.  I would not takeoff again, every, if there were a drip.

I still have the piece of plastic, it is 5mm long and 2 mm wide at the widest. That's how tiny a piece can be and still take down an aircraft.

Before this event, my engine "used" about a quart of oil every ten hours or even less.  I was told, "aircraft engines are like that, they burn oil."  After the IRAN, and it is now several hundred hours after, I lose about a quart every 30 hours.  If I change oil at 20 hours there is no need to add in between.  If you are "burning" oil and your "aircraft engine" is just "like that," don't you believe it, the engine is unhappy about something.

[thinwing]

15 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Chapter II.

So, ok, it was not really the end, because our pilot and co-pilot woke up the next morning in a foreign country, called Can-something or other.  The people there were friendly and helpful enough, the Fire Chief having been a good example.  But this was not long after a not-so-magic event called "nine-one-one" and the pilot and co-pilot, never having intended to spend time with the good natured Canadian people, both lacked the magic they needed to get back to Kansas, aka their own country.  The usual magic is passports and something new at the time called eAPIS codes, both of which the pilot had, but they were back in Kansas.  

So the next morning the pilot had to call a group of people in Kansas whose job it was to act gruff, and to huff and puff about things, to get back to Kansas.  He talked to huffers and puffers in Buffalo, then Washington, and then in Ottawa, and finally one of them huffed and puffed and said, "I am going to have to call the CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY, a large being in Washington, to see if we can let you back in to Kansas.  I will call you back in an hour."

An hour later, the phone rang and the huffer and puffer said that the large being in Washington had granted permission to come back to Kansas without penalty on one condition."  "What condition" the pilot timidly asked.  "You have to go to Buffalo, not Niagara, we don't have anyone in Niagara to wave their wand and let you in the gate."  The pilot happily agreed, not remembering that Buffalo is a place where much larger magic carpets than his were present in large numbers.  So the pilot and his co-pilot flew to Buffalo and landed between a really big magic carpet called something like "737" and another one called something like "MBraer" the pilot was really not paying attention he just knew they were really big, and went and saw the wand waver who huffed and puffed some more about why the pilot had not filed a magic eAPIS plan, but let the pilot in anyway.

And of course, the pilots nifty airplane went into the shop some time later, where a mechanic said, "you have ring slap."  Apparently, if a plane is put in a rapid descent (or dive, who knows) and the engine is powered down and the prop drives the engine rapidly, the nifty piston rings are not held against the nifty cylinder walls by nifty compression, and so they sort of rattle around.  At any rate, the pilot got to have a mechanic shop do a nifty IRAN on the whole engine, which cost some sea shells to do, but that's ok because the engine ran alot better than it ever had and alot longer too.

OK, now, The End.

Oh goodie ,I'm glad the big one in Washington was happy,and the huffers and puffers got to do their stuff and the rings got ringier...this was a wonderful tale and I learned something and I got to stop typing cause I'm all teary eyed about how there are so many helpful and friendly people in this world!

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

Apparently, if a plane is put in a rapid descent (or dive, who knows) and the engine is powered down and the prop drives the engine rapidly, the nifty piston rings are not held against the nifty cylinder walls by nifty compression, and so they sort of rattle around.

Ring flutter is what you're describing. Of course, glad the outcome was good. Maybe you'll become a novelist in your retirement years?

in all seriousness though, there are at least 3 manufacturers of quick drains I know of. The economy models by SAF-AIR, the Bogert referenced above, and the expensive Aeroquip. Do you know which brand leaked on you?

I have no experience with the Bogert brand. But I found the SAF-AIR can have installation issues on the Continental engines. Its internal height in the engine is too high for some engines causing it to hit the oil sump pickup when you press it in to open. The SAF-AIR owner is well aware and will offer full refund if you run into this problem as I did. The Aeroquip model, although expensive, has proven to be very reliable for me. But John's advice to watch for any drips and replace o-rings is spot on.

[carusoam]

JL,

you have out done yourself on this one!

All of the details, delivered.

 

Question for the audience...

Any way to avoid the ring issue?  descending, power off, preserving oil in the engine, is there anything left that can be done to improve this situation?

1) pull the prop all the way back to improve glide ratio.

2) throttle position all the way back.  Less air to compress?

3) fuel mixture cut off. No fuel sent through the engine...

4) looks like the rings are going to get sacrificed for the good of the engine...

 

Great discussion.  Lots to think about... including where I store my passport. 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[cnoe]

Before this event, my engine "used" about a quart of oil every ten hours or even less.  I was told, "aircraft engines are like that, they burn oil."  After the IRAN, and it is now several hundred hours after, I lose about a quart every 30 hours.  If I change oil at 20 hours there is no need to add in between.  If you are "burning" oil and your "aircraft engine" is just "like that," don't you believe it, the engine is unhappy about something.

I'm really glad this turned out well but I feel compelled to dispel the above-referenced mis-information.

There is absolutely no need for alarm about an engine that normally consumes a quart of oil every 10 (or even 5) hours. There is even some evidence to suggest that an engine using only a quart in 30 hours may be detrimental to cylinder life. Oil consumption varies considerably from plane to plane, and this amount (1 quart in 10 hours) is perfectly normal. I would be concerned, though, about a sudden increase in oil consumed.

For more on the subject check out:

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/192775-1.html
https://generalaviationnews.com/2007/06/08/what-is-normal-oil-consumption/
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182849-1.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[peevee]

Sounds like a good time to spin off into a new thread.

[jlunseth]

 @paul, the weakness in this particular quick drain is the geometry.  There is an entrance hole at the top, then a relatively long barrel down to the seal mechanism, which apparently is a narrow, angled opening when it is unsealed.  It is perfect for something long and skinny to enter and not pass through.

@carusoam, if one were to maintain power the rings would not slap.  I powered the engine down thinking that might save it for a little use if I came up short of the runway.  You have to make choices, and I was not trying to save the engine.

@cnoe, I think that might be true of NA's, but my experience is it is not true of the TSIO360.  If you are going through oil there is a reason that is not good.

@peevee, sorry.

Edited April 23, 2017 by jlunseth

[PJClark]

I need this quick drain thing for my Rocket.  Rocket is about to sell me one for $335...does anyone have a DIY solution???

[louisut]

On 2/27/2020 at 6:00 PM, PJClark said:

I need this quick drain thing for my Rocket.  Rocket is about to sell me one for $335...does anyone have a DIY solution???

The drain itself (the fitting) or the drain tube?

[PJClark]

Well I ordered one from Rocket for $335. But the prior owner looked in her hangar and found this. Can anyone say whether this is the tool or just a piece of aluminum pipe?