Recognition Lights

[rgpilot]

I have an Ovation with recognition lights. One of the bulbs burnt out and I am replacing it. The original bulb was a Whelen 14 volt. The plane is a 28 volt plane, shouldn't it be a 28 volt bulb?

The bulbs have been getting so hot that they have melted the lexan wing tip covers. Seems like the 28 volt bulbs would be much less hot. The Mooney part # is 880049-501 which I think is the 14 volt version. Whelen part # for the 28 volt version is 01-0770303-01. Anyone have any ideas?

[ArtVandelay]

For 28v I believe there is a resistor in series to drop the voltage down. I wigwag the lights (search for: pulselite general aviation), this keeps them from melting the covers, the bulbs are available for $10 but you have to trim it to fit (it's a complete circular reflector).

[carusoam]

Whatever the bulb is, the original bulb will melt the plastic lens if there is no airflow past it.  Meaning the recog lights need to be shut down right after landing...

The cost of not following a check list is a few hundred bucks per side...

It also serves as a reminder that a human brain can be distracted, similar to a GU landing... just a lot less expensive.

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

Using the 14v in the 28v airplanes is correct on the recognition lights. Don't ask me how I know.

[rgpilot]

I got a reply from Mooney Engineering. They said you shouldn't use the 28 volt version of recognition lights because they would get too hot! I know that's just flat out wrong.

I am not sure where he got his engineering degree but they must not have taught ohm's law. They do have a resister in the line to drop the voltage to the 14 volt lights.

Maybe they didn't have a 28 volt light available at the time they introduced recognition lights. In my old J Mooney I switch to 28 volt lights and stopped the meltdown.

Edited January 13, 2017 by rgpilot

[kevinw]

Wouldn't a 28V bulb in a 14V system be dimmer than a 14V bulb and therefore not as hot? There's a somewhat pricey solution to this...LEDs. Brighter, cooler, look better and a 5 lb. gain in useful load.

[ArtVandelay]

Wouldn't a 28V bulb in a 14V system be dimmer than a 14V bulb and therefore not as hot? There's a somewhat pricey solution to this...LEDs. Brighter, cooler, look better and a 5 lb. gain in useful load.

Yes, he basically turn a 10 watt bulb into a 5 watt.
There is no LED replacement, recognition lights are different from strobes. This is all LEDs and wigwag recognition lights:

[tony]

4 hours ago, rgpilot said:

I got a reply from Mooney Engineering. They said you shouldn't use the 28 volt version of recognition lights because they would get too hot! I know that's just flat out wrong.

I am not sure where he got his engineering degree but they must not have taught ohm's law. They do have a resister in the line to drop the voltage to the 14 volt lights.

Maybe they didn't have a 28 volt light available at the time they introduced recognition lights. In my old J Mooney I switch to 28 volt lights and stopped the meltdown.

rolling my eyes, makes you wonder doesn't it?  I tried calling the factory twice in my 8 years of ownership.  Both instances were a complete waste of time.  

[gsxrpilot]

Hmmm... both times I've called the factory in the last 4 years, it was a quick resolution that solved an urgent problem.  Of course it was for a 1964 M20C and some pretty obscure parts.

[tony]

I kind feel orphan by the factory, doesn't matter if they are there or not.  The only real support I ever got was from LASAR.  

[StevenL757]

I spoke with Whelen sales and engineering on this awhile back (several months ago), and again today about this (along with other topics, such as the 90033 red anti-collision light LED replacement).  They confirmed they don't have anything active in the engineering pipeline for an LED replacement for the 70303 recognition light at this point, nor do they anticipate starting anything, as there simply isn't enough of a market.  They speculated that Mooney would probably be reluctant to engage, citing commitments to more critical projects in the pipeline.  Whelen did confirm the usage of the 14V light as the correct part for 28V airplanes, citing the presence of an in-line resistor, so the Mooney folks are correct, as the OP pointed out.

Whelen confirmed that bulb cannot be replaced individually, as it is "welded" into the mirrored/curved frame surrounding it.  The 70303 "pod" would need to ordered as a replacement.  IMHO, given the high replacement cost and low level of functionality that small light delivers, it really appears to be less-important or necessary, especially since the Ovations light up like Christmas trees already.  For those of us who have the Orion LED Nav lights, there may be more than enough lighting coverage to warrant leaving our recog. lights off all the time, but this is obviously a personal and safety-related decision.

Maybe LoPresti or another vendor would like to take on the challenge of a replacement, if not already underway...??

[ArtVandelay]

If you're handy, you could drill out the bulb, install a G4 socket, and just use a standard G4 12v bulb (10W, 5W), this is my plan when one of my bulbs burn out.

[gsxrpilot]

With plenty of other lights on the 252, I've just never used the recognition lights. They seem to be more trouble then the benefit they provide.

[LANCECASPER]

LED landing and taxi lights make the best recognition lights - they draw very few amps, are cool in temperature and last longer than the airplane.

[gsxrpilot]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

LED landing and taxi lights make the best recognition lights - they draw very few amps, are cool in temperature and last longer than the airplane.

Yep, and there's a set of yours on the front of my 252.

[kortopates]

One simple solution is to put a pulse circuit on the recognition lights you will no longer be worried about using them. I am pretty impressed with how effective they are straight ahead, unlike the strobes. Precise Flight sells the pulser and eliminates the heat issue if you forget to turn them off on the ground. Simple elegant solution.


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[Jerry 5TJ]

 

 

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok i am going to sound daft.  I have on AL 

1. red and green nav lights one on each wingtip and a white light in the tail (also a nav light)
2. a strobe anticollison light in each wingtip and one in the tail.

so what on earth are these recognition lights you are all talking about?

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok i am going to sound daft.  I have on AL 

1. red and green nav lights one on each wingtip and a white light in the tail (also a nav light)
2. a strobe anticollison light in each wingtip and one in the tail.

so what on earth are these recognition lights you are all talking about?

Recognition lights are typically clear lights located mid-wing or at the tip. They are designed to make the plane more visable. Not all planes have them. At the time the only landing light option was a sealed beam and they had a life span of 25-50hrs if installed in the correct orientation. Mooney likely installed these lights as original equipment as a way of providing more reliable lighting that could be left on for long periods of time without failure. Since upgrading my landing light to an HID bulb, I feel comfortable leaving it on all the time. Pretty much all Turbine aircraft all have recog lights.

[ArtVandelay]

Unfortunately the lights on the wing leading edge is not a good idea because of the parasitic drag it causes, it counters some of the speed mods. Landing,taxi lights belongs on the landing gear.

[Shadrach]

On 1/14/2017 at 10:48 AM, teejayevans said:

Unfortunately the lights on the wing leading edge is not a good idea because of the parasitic drag it causes, it counters some of the speed mods. Landing,taxi lights belongs on the landing gear.

I like the light in cowl now that we have non filament bulbs to withstand the harmonics. I like to have my landing light on at all times and at the very least whenever I'm in a crowded section of airspace. Those operations are not always conducive to having the gear down.

[ArtVandelay]

I like the light in cowl now that we have non filament bulbs to take withstand the harmonics. I like to have my landing light on at all times and at the very least whenever I'm in a crowded section of airspace. Those operations are not always conducive to having the gear down.

Hence the reason for recognition lights, between these and strobes, you should be visible. I'm often sighted before I see them.

[rgpilot]

I got a reply from Mooney Engineering. They said you shouldn't use the 28 volt version of recognition lights because they would get too hot! I know that's just flat out wrong.

I not sure where he got his engineering degree but they must not have taught ohm's law. They do have a resister in the line to drop the voltage to the 14 volt lights.

Maybe they didn't have a 28 volt light available at the time they introduced recognition lights. In my old J Mooney I switch to 28 volt lights and stopped the meltdown.

I just put a voltmeter on the recognition lights that Mooney installed (14 volt lights) with the resister to reduce voltage. They are getting 23 volts with battery only power.

I will replace them with 28 volt lamps.

 

[Tmack201]

TeeJay, would you give a description of your LED lights. I just replaced landing and taxi lights with LED and want to replace nav and strobes with LED, including wig wag. Also, who did the installation. Nice setup!

[ArtVandelay]

TeeJay, would you give a description of your LED lights. I just replaced landing and taxi lights with LED and want to replace nav and strobes with LED, including wig wag. Also, who did the installation. Nice setup!

Whelen Orion LED series (650 on tips, 500 on tail), Precise Flight PulseLight does the wigwag, MSC at KDAB did the LED work, my local AP did the pulse lights, it's an easy install, access to switch from underneath, the unit was attach under the footwell. If you only have a nav light on the tail, they will need to run an additional wire, I chose not to sync them, some report radio interference when all strobes are synced.

[Tmack201]

thanks, TeeJay