M20J vs. M20R comparison

[Tx_Aggie]

Recently I had the pleasure of an unrealized comparison flight between the 2000 M20R I currently rent and a friend's 201. Two weekends ago we took a flight in the 201 to San Angelo (SJT) for a $100 hamburger run. At 7000' and 150 TAS, we were seeing about a 10 knot tail wind for a gs of 160 knots. Not bad. On the return, the winds picked up in the opposite direction, with 150 TAS, we were at a painful 120 knots over the ground. This past weekend I took a friend to Stephenville TX (SEP) for arguably the best BBQ around at Hard 8. In the Ovation we went up to 11,000' 180 TAS, and making 200-205 knots over the ground. On the return with the same type of headwinds, I was at 8000', TAS of about 185 and 165 knots over the ground. The fuel burns in the Ovation averaged about 14 gph while the average in the 201 were about 10 gph. I get the efficiency of the 201 at low fuel burn is really good, and good numbers may be in store with a bit of a tail wind. But you always have that wind working against you on the way back. I guess now that I've experienced  the power of the IO-550, it is soooo hard to convince myself a slower, less powerful plane is worth the money. It doesn't seem to me the 4 gph difference in fuel burn Is worth it. Now I see why the Missle and Rocket guys are so amped up about their performance gains. Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Matt 

[gsengle]

I absolutely love the Ovation. I really want to fly someone's J or K one day to see how different it feels. Aside from cruise performance what can you say qualitatively about how different they felt...? Takeoff, landing? Handling? I know the O's control feel is very firm at those high speeds for instance, does that leave the J feeling a little mushy by comparison?

Also it's not like in the O you can't throttle back to 10gph... but it's not just the 4gph, it's also a big jump in acquisition cost!


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[Tx_Aggie]

49 minutes ago, gsengle said:

I absolutely love the Ovation. I really want to fly someone's J or K one day to see how different it feels. Aside from cruise performance what can you say qualitatively about how different they felt...? Takeoff, landing? Handling? I know the O's control feel is very firm at those high speeds for instance, does that leave the J feeling a little mushy by comparison?

Also it's not like in the O you can't throttle back to 10gph... but it's not just the 4gph, it's also a big jump in acquisition cost!


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The controls were similar to the firmness of the Ovation but not equal in my opinion. The feel of takeoffs and landings were similar, with the exception of no huge nose-down momentum with full flaps on the J like the Ovation. The takeoff roll wasn't bad, there were only two of us and half tanks. But I bet if We were near max gross take off weight we'd have quite a longer roll in the J over the Ovation. I mean there was a noticeable reduction in power availability on climb. It is an interesting plane without a doubt and I know if fits the bill for a lot of pilots. After my comparison I think I'll just keep saving a little longer to get that extra power. 

[rbridges]

its kinda the same argument I have with the cherokee>>mooney C transition.  It's not just the TAS, it's the GS when flying against a headwind.  120knots in a mooney vs 70-80 in a cherokee in a 30 knot HW.  

I'd love to have a 185 knot bird, but I'm so comfortable with my C and the costs associated with it.

[mccdeuce]

4 gph is a lot when you are talking about non turbine fuel burns. 

Also if you take a M20J from the mid 90s you should be getting 158-160. So is that extra speed worth it? To some it is. For me it's not. Now when comparing my J to a P or C airplane burning the same fuel and going 15-20kts slower that was extremely important. 

[gsengle]

Where the O shines also is in climb, you get spoiled...


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[Tx_Aggie]

2 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Where the O shines also is in climb, you get spoiled...


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Agreed. To further clarify, I'm in the 2-blade, DX, 280 hp derated IO-550. While I know there's more to be gained with the 310 conversion, I am content with 180 kts true at 14 gph.

[Piloto]

One significant difference is the baggage area. The Ovation baggage area is about 50% larger than that of the M20J. This can make a big difference when loading large suit cases. Another is ceiling. An Ovation with full fuel + long range tanks can easily achieve 18,000ft vs. 12,000ft for an M20J. At 17,000ft (see picture) you can get the Ovation to about 11 gals/hour and 170Kts. Comparable to the M20J range but higher speed. A very good long cross country machine.

José 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Piloto

[bonal]

I'm so happy for you. 

[gsengle]

In hindsight, moving up from an Arrow, I would have been happy with a J for my mission. I bought an early O though, and it's really capable.


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[Ron McBride]

I've been to 15,000 many times in my F, even on hot days.  It takes a while to get there.  Service ceiling is around 18,000, I would guess that a J would do that also.

A turbo would be nice, maybe some day.

Ron

[Tx_Aggie]

16 minutes ago, Piloto said:

One significant difference is the baggage area. The Ovation baggage area is about 50% larger than that of the M20J. This can make a big difference when loading large suit cases. Another is ceiling. An Ovation with full fuel + long range tanks can easily achieve 18,000ft vs. 12,000ft for an M20J. At 17,000ft (see picture) you can get the Ovation to about 11 gals/hour and 170Kts. Comparable to the M20J range but higher speed. A very good long cross country machine.

José 

Nice photo, weekend trip to Iceland? I knew Moonies were excellent machines but trips across the pond?!

[Jerry 5TJ]

23 minutes ago, Piloto said:

Question:  What happens going the other direction when you have 40+ knots on the nose? 

[Piloto]

4 minutes ago, Tx_Aggie said:

Nice photo, weekend trip to Iceland? I knew Moonies were excellent machines but trips across the pond?!

Actually this trip was to the UK. An Ovation with LR tanks (130 gallons total) has a range of over 2,000nm non stop. This was done with no ferry tanks and plenty of fuel left. The only thing missing was the pilot relief tube. But I manage with one gallon cans.

José

[Cruiser]

I have experience in both J and R models.

In flight handling is negligible difference except the R has a couple of tools the J doesn't ........ speed brakes and power. i.e. fast up and fast down.

landing is a huge difference. Holding that long nose up on the R into the touchdown after the flare is critical and hard to do. The nose wants to come down right now on landing. You really have to work on it.

In the J model it was very common to see 17 mpg enroute and easily get 15+ mpg block performance. The R model will never see that. I plan for 13.5 gph and 10 to 12 mpg typical. This is conservative I know. I can add power and get 15 - 17 gph and the 30+ gph takeoff FF is breathtaking.

Of course so is the 1000+ fpm climb rate.

[bonal]

I'm not sure what your point is, thats like comparing an AMG Mercedes to a VW Golf are you just tying to make us slower Mooney pilots feel bad

[Little Dipper]

It doesn't matter if it is a car, boat or plane...someone is always going to have a faster one.   I would say though that I can get 120K under 10 gallons per hour with my R when I want to sight see.    That is close to a C-172 at cruise.    I think both the J&R are great aircraft.

 

[Piloto]

3 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Question:  What happens going the other direction when you have 40+ knots on the nose? 

You may have to stop at Narsarsuaq BGBW. The problem is that fuel and handling charges are expensive and about twice on holidays, and is always a holiday when you land there. Always check for fuel availability and working fuel pump before departing.

José

[Piloto]

Unlike the easy towing by hand for the M20J for the M20R I recommend you get a motorized tow bar, specially when full of fuel. The M20J is easier to taxi on grass but with the M20R you have to be careful not to have the nose wheel dig into ground.

José

[gsengle]

I'm not sure what your point is, thats like comparing an AMG Mercedes to a VW Golf are you just tying to make us slower Mooney pilots feel bad

Well not really, it's more like comparing a Golf GTI to a Golf R. It's a valid discussion!


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[Tx_Aggie]

47 minutes ago, bonal said:

I'm not sure what your point is, thats like comparing an AMG Mercedes to a VW Golf are you just tying to make us slower Mooney pilots feel bad

My intent is to share what I've learned. While renting the Ovation, I've been spoiled by great performance. I've really only learned about the 201 through these forums. And while I've heard a lot about their all around ability, I think my mission and flight regime is unique to the usual two main groups: 1) 10,000' and below, non-turbo/201 2) 10,000' and above, turbo. I live in an area 3000' above sea level. In order to get out of the turbulence and not be tossed around like a rag doll, I have to go atleast to 10,000'. But I'm not too committed to hanging around the teens with frequenting the cannulas either. I'm usually between 10-12k on every flight. The Ovation has performed excellently in this window. It is more expensive without a doubt from an acquisition point however. 

[Danb]

3 hours ago, gsengle said:

Where the O shines also is in climb, you get spoiled...


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Gregg especially if you have the O3 conversion, I've owned 2 J,s, then the Bravo, first Mooney only makes/made great planes. Since I being an old guy who takes a hand full of vacations with long cross countries the long body shines. Prior to the Bravo my bride didn't like going on our longer flights now she loves it, just get an inpatient wife walla a faster plane. I wanted a nice twin but could not convince her she loves Moonies 

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, Little Dipper said:

I would say though that I can get 120K under 10 gallons per hour with my R when I want to sight see.

My normal cruise (59% power, LOP) is 160 KTAS at 9.0 GPH in my "K".

[aviatoreb]

39 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

My normal cruise (59% power, LOP) is 160 KTAS at 9.0 GPH in my "K".

At what altitude?

[KLRDMD]

1 minute ago, aviatoreb said:

At what altitude?

+/- 10,000 ft.

175 KTAS  at 17,500 ft.