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Path forward for return to flying/aircraft ownership?
Wing Nut posted a topic in General Mooney Talk
Greetings, all. I hold ASEL and Instrument-airplane privileges, with ~750 hrs total, ~200 hrs in high-performance, and ~25 hrs of retract time in an Arrow. Formerly owned a Socata TB-9 Tampico and a Cessna 172R. I have a solid 1.1 hrs in the last 10 years. A new-to-me aircraft could be in my future again. I've taken a fancy to the post-1977 201 series. Obviously, some training is in order. Rather than merely refresh my flight review, I thought a commercial rating was more the path forward. Not only to genuinely refresh my skills, but with the added benefit of presumably lower insurance rates when I go to buy. However, with the geographic constraints that I face commuting to work, the dizzying turnover in instructors lately, and let's just say the challenge of finding an available rental aircraft I'd trust my life to, obtaining that training has been hard to do. Thus, I'm considering solving the aircraft availability conundrum by buying an airplane in which to train. I seek the collective wisdom of the anonymous internet to inform my decision making. For starters, if I decide to buy now, am I even insurable? If I can get insurance, would it be so expensive that my training for the same number of hours in a rental would be cheaper, assuming that rentals are available? Presumably, the added time-in-type I'd get by getting an instructor to train me in my own aircraft would "reduce" my future insurance costs. What are higher-TIT folks paying for full coverage with ~$130k hull values? Is a commercial rating actually going to materially affect my rates? What else can I be doing to make myself a competent pilot attractive to insurers? An inquiring mind wants to know....- 22 replies
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In March of 2015, we finalized the purchase agreement of N4352H, a 1979 Mooney M20J “201”. Early in 2017, we decided it was time to do a full modernization project and ensure the safest and most capable aircraft we possibly could. We figured that this project would take just shy of one year, so I dropped the airplane off one day before new hire class for my airline started. Upon purchase, the aircraft was equipped with the Aspen PFD2000 system, a single Garmin GNS-430W, the S-TEC55X autopilot, as well as the Lycoming IO-360-B3A6. With the exception of those upgrades, the airplane remained relatively original in its equipment. Her most recent coat of paint was put on in 2001 and scored as a 7/10, her interior was from 1997 and also was 7/10. Avionics: We first started the project at Airborne Electronics in Sacramento, California (KSAC), with an entire overhaul of the panel. After much debate, the decision was made for the following equipment: Aspen PFD2000, with Synthetic Vision (previously installed) JPI EDM 900 Garmin GTN 750 Garmin GTN 650 Garmin G5 standby attitude indicator PS Engineering 8000G audio panel Garmin GTX 345 transponder S-TEC55X with altitude preselect P2 audio advisory system Below is the old wiring being dealt with as we progressed through the tear out process. New wiring being installed, not a single one of the original wires were retained: The panel layout was drafted several times throughout the process and mocked up with cardboard cutouts: After harnesses were created the panel was cut and powder coated. All harnesses were assembled in a manner that lets the avionics tech remove a few screws and pull the individual components down and underneath the panel for ease of maintenance: Finally, operational testing of the equipment began, this was an exciting day for all of us: As an aside, I hated the rocker switches in the original panel, so we went with a more typical switch setup, for any CRJ drivers, you may recognize that battery master switch: The panel and glare shield once installation was complete and she was ready for her ferry flight to Auburn, California (KAUN) for annual: After annual she began her last flight as N4352H down to Santa Maria, California (KSMX) for paint art Art-Craft Paint (http://artcraftpaint.com/). Paint: I dropped the airplane off at Art-Craft and discussed our project. They were certain they could pull off the design within the 30 day window as quoted, and they delivered perfectly on time and on budget. The masking and foil process began the day I dropped her off: The paint was stripped and they kept me updated every Friday (minimum) as to her progress of becoming N187CT. The base layer was applied: And finally the picture that got me the most excited about this project, seeing the paint start to come together, taken two days before delivery day: Finally delivery day! I showed up via Uber as they were just putting the finishing touches on the aircraft: The final product. It was a mix between the Mooney Acclaim paint job, and another scheme that I preferred for the tail design: Below is the original design that we presented to them: Interior: We contacted Bruce Jaeger of Spatial Interiors (jaegeraviation.com) to come out to Sacramento to help us bring the interior into a modern age and style. Bruce spent three days in the middle of summer heat reconditioning and repairing our original 1979 plastics. The results were incredible. The attention to detail that Bruce demonstrated was second to none. He spent the time to repaint the center control stack as well to bring it inline with the rest of the aircraft stylization as well. Finally, the seats were updated to include "Mooney 201" badging. All in, the project took about 9 months, a long time to be without our beloved Mooney, however it was the best decision we felt we could have made to create our dream airplane. Kyle http://www.comstockaviation.com/
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Well it’s time to let go of my Mooney. She has served me and my family well, but now I’m comfortable enough in my 195 to cut the safety net of having her around. They say the best planes get sold before they are advertised. This is a great example. I found this plane, right here on Mooney Space, and I'll bet she finds her new home with Mooney Space member again. I’ve set up a website with all the details and pictures. Here’s a some pics and specs to get you interested: 1987 Mooney 205SE Flown regularly Well maintained 530 WAAS, GPSS/roll steering Aspen MFD with Synthetic Vision Altitude Pre-select Yaw Damper 1040 SMOH 4350 TT Hangared No Damage History Hartzell Top Prop (535hrs) 1000lb Useful Load STC New seats from Oregon Aero IFR and Annual* Current (*end of May) And much much much more. $138,000 $119,000 Check out the website for lots of pics and all the goodies.
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Recently I had the pleasure of an unrealized comparison flight between the 2000 M20R I currently rent and a friend's 201. Two weekends ago we took a flight in the 201 to San Angelo (SJT) for a $100 hamburger run. At 7000' and 150 TAS, we were seeing about a 10 knot tail wind for a gs of 160 knots. Not bad. On the return, the winds picked up in the opposite direction, with 150 TAS, we were at a painful 120 knots over the ground. This past weekend I took a friend to Stephenville TX (SEP) for arguably the best BBQ around at Hard 8. In the Ovation we went up to 11,000' 180 TAS, and making 200-205 knots over the ground. On the return with the same type of headwinds, I was at 8000', TAS of about 185 and 165 knots over the ground. The fuel burns in the Ovation averaged about 14 gph while the average in the 201 were about 10 gph. I get the efficiency of the 201 at low fuel burn is really good, and good numbers may be in store with a bit of a tail wind. But you always have that wind working against you on the way back. I guess now that I've experienced the power of the IO-550, it is soooo hard to convince myself a slower, less powerful plane is worth the money. It doesn't seem to me the 4 gph difference in fuel burn Is worth it. Now I see why the Missle and Rocket guys are so amped up about their performance gains. Thoughts? Comments? Thanks, Matt
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I’m looking for a source parting out a M20J (preferably) , but a K would work for some parts.
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MOONEY 201 SPEED MACHINE 1979 $73,777 UNBEATABLE DEAL N4665H based in Fort Myers FL (KFMY) last 17 years; Complete Log Books 3537 TT, 760 SMOH, Engine and Prop Mechanical & Avionics 10; Paint 7, interior 5 due to Age. ALL AD up to Date, Next Annual 9/17; Compressions 78+/80 Upgrade – Renovation Program- Recent UpGrades :Mag Overhaul 5/17, Ignition Harness 5/17,Break Caliper 5/17,Gill Battery 4/17, ELT Battery 4/17, New RAPCO Vacume pump 2/17, New Windscreen 10/16;New Baffles 11/16, New Doughnuts 6/16, Gear repainted 6/16; Annual ATC 50 GARMIN 300XL IFR GPS, Map, Com w/ CDI King IFR KX-170B COM/NAV KT76A Encoded Transponder KN75 Glideslope KMA20 Audio Pannel KI 203/204 Glideslope Sigtronic SPA 400 4 Place Intercom Century 41 Autopilot 3 Axis w/ AK801 Flight Director Precise Flight Stand by Vacume New Kenyon Cockpit Cover 10/16 Canvas Fuel Cap Covers Full Canvass Wing Covers All specs are thought to be accurate, sunbect to verification by purchaser, CONTACT Frank (Patrick) FLYNN , OWNER 239-297-0702 4665 H Inventory 1979 Mooney 201 GARMIN 300XL IFR GPS, Map, Com w/ CDI King IFR KX-170B COM/NAV KT76A Encoded Transponder KN75 Glideslope KMA20 Audio Pannel KI 203/204 Glideslope Sigtronic SPA 400 4 Place Intercom Century 41 Autopilot 3 Axis w/ AK801 Flight Director Precise Flight Stand by Vacume New Kenyon Cockpit Cover 10/16 Canvas Fuel Cap Covers Full Canvass Wing Covers All specs are thought to be accurate, sunbect to verification by purchaser,
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Hello everyone! I'm very new to this page and I've enjoyed reading the comments on here. very insightful. I am wondering if anyone know or could recommend a great mechanic or a shop that does prebuy/prepurchase inspection on Mooneys? My offer for a 20j 201 was just accepted and I am very excited but the purchase is pending a prebuy. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I already tried to search button but maybe I just didn't see it. If there is a list out there or a previous post, please let me know and I'll erase this thread to not clog up to forum. thank you again! -Vince
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I have replaced the original exhaust off my 1983 M20J with new. This was a proactive step as part of my preventive maintenance philosophy for a plane I intend to keep a long time. No leaks or specific problems found, but that said, the exhaust is a wear item and original, about 2400 hours and 32 years, and the price reflects this. For someone who wants to put off a new exhaust a little longer in order to coordinate with their TBO or major annual, this may be for you. Only what is seen here is included: 4 risers, muffler/collector, and tailpipe. Specifically, the heater shroud and tailpipe hardware are not included. It is drilled for EGT probes on all 4 stacks. The #2 cylinder swage fit area was repaired once as part of my pre-purchase squawks. That was over 400 hours ago. Some of you are bound to wonder, so I'll add that I went with a new Knisely exhaust. Powerflow was more than I could afford/justify during this annual, but was surely tempted. Feel free to discuss the merits of my decisions amongst yourselves. I'll add that it was only flown ROP except when it was flown LOP, unless the moon was full, in which case I used camguard. :-) $300 plus shipping costs. Or pick it up at KFUL (other SoCal airports possible if we can coordinate schedules and you buy lunch) Reply or PM with any questions. thanks, -dan
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Hello,I’ve been searching for my first Mooney for the past 12 months and studied the pros/cons of the models within my budget. I've found a 231 priced like a 201 (for some reasons) and I am about to send her for a PPI but I am having second thoughts after receiving several warnings about the TSIO 360 (this bird is fitted with the LB version with Intercooler).In my view, the pros of a 231 vs. 201 are:- De-iced prop- Option to climb if caught in icing- Climb above most WX- Fly faster in high teens FL- Better original avionics e.g. KFC200The cons are:- Bad reputation of the Continental TSIO 360 vs. the Lycoming in the 201- Serious engine management required- Increased maintenance costsIn terms of mission, I am looking at the following:- 2 pax & luggage for long weekends- 3h legs --could push my wife to 4h if it’s to go somewhere sunny - UK-based- Trips to Western Europe/Nordics/AlpsI’ve heard so many contradicting advice that I am a bit lost now and would love to hear from the experts experienced with both birds (if possible as owners/mechanics/pilots). Thank you !
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Good afternoon, I am currently looking for an M20J and would like some suggestions in relation to more Mooney specific (J model specific items), things to watch out for, etc... I do not have much experience with the Mooneys and therefore some extra coaching would be appreciated before purchasing one. I have debated V Tails, Comanches, etc but the Mooney and the M20Js efficiency is hard to beat. There is an airplane in NJ which has been in Air Mods hands that I am looking into but it has had some damage 10+ years ago which required replacing the wing. (installed a K model wing by Air Mods) In addition are there any CFI's in the New Smyrna Beach/Orlando area that someone would recommend to do some Mooney transition training as I do not have more than a handful of Mooney hours. Any help is greatly appreciated, Charles Port Orange, FL 32128
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For Sale: Immaculate 1978 M20J 201! Newer Paint (9 out of 10), Newer Interior (9 out of 10), All Glass Avionics, New Engine, Low Time Prop! You won't find a better value on the market for a pristine M20J 201. This is a turn key aircraft with exceptional maintenance history. Fly 150kts True Airspeed at 8.7GPH ROP!! This Aircraft won't last long as you won't find a better cared for and equipped Mooney 201 on the market. Last two owners have always hangared aircraft. Aircraft is in Arizona. I am selling the Airplane to go to a high performance airplane. This is an excellent Aircraft that I have poured a bunch of money and time into. Give me a call if you have any questions: Justin Dyster; 480-254-7627 Complete logbooks and additional pictures available at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/642e57qb1mcyy9l/AACoHGxIg6K0GVlRZSnqDPpQa?dl=0 Trade-A-Plane: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2256517&s-type=aircraft N33YZ_Spec-Sheet_3202017.pdf
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Trade a Plane listing is here: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?listing_id=2265780 Hangared at KOBI Woodbine, NJ. I have owned N1159P for 24 years, and she flies regularly. It came out of the factory with a useful load of 907, adding technology and accessories, the UL today is 888. That's less than 20 lbs of UL, but fly a technically advanced and feature rich IFR airplane as a result. 3880 TTSN, and 1100 on a Factory Reman (roller tappets). Pretty paint (2006), the cloth interior is original, some wear, but not ratty. Some history, a bird strike on top of left wing (2013) and empennage damage after a Stearman clipped my tail feathers in 2005, while I was parked at KMIV. Never landed gear up, no hail or corrosion damage. All repair work meticulously completed by the master, Dave M at Air-Mods and Repair in Robbinsville, NJ, one of the best in the business. You won't find a better equipped panel, see the trade a plane listing for detail, N1159P is 2020 ADS-B IN/OUT ready with weather and traffic, including an on board WiFi system that extends the ADS-B data to your smart phone/tablet, Aspen MFD, Garmin MFD, 430W, GTX330, SL-30, EDM700, PMA7000, RANGR 978, and the list goes on. I'm asking $93,500, offers considered. I'm thinking of moving up after some tire kicking of my own. Happy to answer any questions, TAP has the best listing detail including logs. - Jeff 609-469-1986
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WTB 1977 to 1982 ish J model. Longtime watcher, first time poster... I'm a pro pilot looking for a J that hasn't had structural damage (prop strike with subsequent overhaul ok) for a personal plane. Would prefer more than a wing leveler autopilot (nav/alt hold) with at least a Garmin 430 and decent engine times...max of $100k. It is a little before the Spring market, I know. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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CLEAN, LOW TIME, M20J FOR SALE. 1977 Mooney M20J. $92,000 (Priced below Vref). 2477 Hr TT 375 HR SMOH by Mena AIrcraft Engines 375 Hr SNEW Hartsell Scimitar Prop White with 2 tone blue accents. Paint in good condition Blue leather interior in good condition K & N Air filter Concorde Battery New Shock discs, 2015 Annual due October, 2017 IFR due January 2018 Avionics: Garmin GNS-480 GPS/NAV/COM S-TEC 50 Autopilot with altitude hold couples to GPS with GPSS Eleictric trim GI-106 CDI EDM-700 Engine analyzer with fuel flow 2- Bose X Noise cancelling headsets Collins VHF-251 COM Collins VIR-351 NAV Collins TDR-950 Transponder Collins AMR-350 Audio Panel Sigtronics SP-400 4 place intercom w/ Music input NOTE: Yoke mounted GPS in photo not included.
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Good afternoon everyone, I am currently finishing up my PPL. I have a wife and a four year old. My local FBO only rents Cessna 172's @ 160hr. Wet. I expect my mission to usually include the three of us for ~ 250nm trips, but want to at least carry 3 adults and full fuel (pushing it in the 172). Above all else I want to be safe. I plan to use whatever plane I purchase to immediately start instrument training. I had originally planned on purchasing a 182, but after riding in one the other day I was more impressed with the g1000 it had than the plane itself. Im not afraid to admit this is a scary descision for me. My wife wants me to go ahead and buy something so I'll shut up about it, but it's a friggin airplane. Seems like a poor or rushed descision could lead to deadly or at least costly mistakes. Which is why I'm here. I'm confused, frustrated, and need people with experience to say you can do this, these feelings are normal, or you aren't ready. You need to back up and punt. Here is what I know (or think I know) 182: 145ktas, ~1200 lb useful, ~15 gph cruise, maintenance isn't terrible. Insurance is 1700 per yr. Mooney M20j (seems like the model for me): 150ktas, ~1000 lb useful, 10 gph cruise, maintenance doesn't seem to be terrible either insurance is 3200 per year. I had also considered 231, but keep reading conflicting articles about maintenance. Are they much more expensive to maintain? Is it worth the performance increase? One article said if you stay below 12k then buy a 201. Above buy a 252. I honestly have never been above 12k in a ga airplane, and have also read the time it takes to fill the oxygen bottles eats up the time saved on the trip. I'm looking at spending around 80k will consider going higher for good avionics. I do realize posting this on a Mooney forum will likely influence the advice but please try and be objective. I need a safe cost effective airplane that I can trust. Please help me - Travis Also, I've never actually ridden in a Mooney so if anyone is based near KDTN I'll buy the fuel!
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Rebuilt Skytec starter to fit a M20J Lycoming IO360. This one stopped when I was out of town so I bought a new starter. This was still under warranty so I sent it away for replacement and Skytec sent me this one Still in shipping box encased in plastic. All paperwork included. Model 149NL. Asking $350US and will ship within continental North America PM or phone me at 519 589 7034.
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Hello everyone.. My very clean, no damage history, hangared and well maintained MSE is up for sale: Price $117,500 and accepting reasonable offers. The plane is located near Pittsburgh at KFWQ. http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/2161087.html Best to contact via email mcpilot@mac.com
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Since I'm not flying much these days, I would like to sell my Mooney. For details, see trade-a-plane link below: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/2161084.html Let me know if you have any questions. Thank you. The following link has better pictures! https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9_PF58GCALwWWdvUC05WU9pY00&usp=drive_web
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Hello fellows, I'm looking for m20j Instrument Cluster, Oil and Fuel Transducer and Voltage Regulator. The P/N are bellow: Instrument Cluster - P/N 640281-523 Transducer Amplifier Fuel - P/N 950D0311-001 Transducer Amplifier Oil Pressure - P/N 950D0311-003 Voltage Regulator (28V) - Electrodelta VR802 (or any alternate, Mooney informed me that actual alternate P/N is 940170-501) Regards Tércio
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Here is my first video taken in my 1984 Mooney M20J. I had the Aspen Evolution installed earlier this year. I really enjoy flying this airplane and my dog always loves to come along. wish i could figure out how to embed my youtube video instead of link it... Hope y'all enjoy it. -Dan
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Hi All! I don't have any cards in the mix, but these three grabbed my eye today as I was passing time today on barnstormers... 1966 MOONEY M20E SUPER 21-- Wish mine had an AP, I like the silver… just the silver 1987 MOONEY 201 M20J- clean 1977 MOONEY M20J 201- looks very capable The last one caught my only is Brokered by Dan Jay, I have worked with Dan on 2 other Pre Purchases Inspections. A BE35 and T182 over the last 24 months. He is a stand up guy that works with aircraft that tend to be in good shape. I did like the 87 J that posted today. Really, no cards at all... Cheers, -Matt
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Does anyone know anything good or bad about this airplane? http://www.trade-a-plane.com/listing?id=1762079 It had damage about 20 years ago. If properly repaired, how much would that affect future value? Thanks, Tim
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Guys, please, I need your help! I'm willing to buy this tach (http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-D-TACHOMETER-P-N-0520-003-/171348387858?pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&hash=item27e528e812&vxp=mtr) to replace mine but I was told that my sender might be damaged. Do you know what is the correct P/N for the sender of it? Does the sender includes the Tach Gen? Any of you have a spare one? It is difficult to find? My IPM says tha TACH GEN (B & D INSTR) P/N is 880053-501, but Mooney P/Ns make me confuse... I'm attaching a photo of the one I removed. Thanks!!
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Hello everyone! I'm looking for a tachometer for a 1989 M20J MSE, 28V, IPM says it's P/N is 880039-515, anyone have a spare one? My hole is 2-1/4'' And still, how can I find a tachometer compatible and aprooved for my plane? And if it's not too much to ask, could anyone explain to me the difference between TSO, PMA and STC? Thanks!
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4890-TT, 369-SMOH by TRIAD, 369-SNEW Prop, 2004 Jetglo Paint/Leather Interior by Grace Air Inc., Complete Logs, Garmin GNS-480 GPS/NAV/COM/Color Moving Map with WAAS & Weather Display, Garmin GI-106 CDI, King KX-155 Nav/Com, King KN-64 DME, King KT-76A Transponder, King KMA-24 Audio Panel, King KI-209 CDI, Century 21 Autopilot with Heading Hold with Coupling to GPS, 3M WX-1000 Storm Scope, DG with Heading Bug, Backup Horizon, 2nd Altimeter, Dual Glide Slopes, PS Engineering PM-1000 4-Place Intercom, New T&B Indicator and More! There is Cabling to Interface a Portable (Yoke Mounted) Garmin 396 with the Garmin 480 Installed in the Panel for Weather, etc. This "201" also has Speed Brakes, Inflatable Door Seals, Strobes, a Lightweight Sky-Tec Starter, and 67 Gallon Fuel Tanks. The Annual is Due March 2014. The IFR Certification is Due May 2015. New Motor Mounts and Bolts Were Installed During the Engine O/H in '07. It's Hangared/Based in Colorado, Owned by an Airline Pilot. Asking Price: $89,000. A TOP SHELF 201! Tel (704) 794-8477, email: Kevin@Propilots.net. Make an offer.