Will Samurai Husky pass his checkride?

[gsengle]

Except for the cooling issues of the turbo itself perhaps? Let's get a turbo driver or three to chime in

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[thinwing]

What's a corroborator?Oh..you don't mean carburetor do you??Not used ,exhaust gas flows from cylinders to y fitting st a valve called a waste gate.This valve directs gas to an inconel turbine connected to second aluminum one  (compressor) contained in another chamber.Filtered air is directed to the compressor side of the turbine( turbo) and outputed either directly to the engine cylinders via intake tubes or first thru a radiator called an inter cooler.This is because compressing ambient air can raise its temp by 150 degrees or more.The waste gate valve controls the speed and therefor volume of air being pumped out of the turbo by redirecting some of exhaust gas around the turbo,thus bypassing it.Its called a waste gate because it wastes some of the energy from the exhaust stream.Some turbos had manual controls but the one in a bravo is controlled automatically by a differential density controller.This is basically sinced to the throttle and in the Bravo has 35 to 36 lb boost limit.Thus on takeoff at say 7500 msl the same 36 in of manifold pressure is available as at sea level compared to say 22 in a no turbo.This controller is basically a feed back valve using engine oil pressure to control waste gate opening .Oil is also directed to shaft bearings on the turbos compressor and exhaust turbine wheel.Oil tends to turn black with a turbocharger because of the high heat oil is exposed to.....to be continued..

 

 

[Hank]

Wow, 36" for takeoff . . . I usually see about 28-29" depending on the weather.

[DonMuncy]

The 231 has a max of 40 inches, with a valve that opens at about 42. The careful 231 owner watches on takeoff to avoid going over 40.

I usually cruise at about 30 inches.

[Samurai Husky]

thought i would do a quick update; So i passed the oral, i got a discontinuance on the flight; Didnt even leave the parking spot; 

I was going through my post engine start up and whipped passed the Garmin self check screen on the 430 and he called me on it; Its a screen i was taught once but then told 'you will never need to know anything on this screen'; 

Well turns out i did need to know and had no clue; He gave me about 20 mins to look it up online and i couldn't find an answer and so finally he said 'you know there is a lot of smoke from those fires, the visibility is kind of low do you want to continue?'

That was the hint of if i said yes, i would fail if i say no i would have another shot. So i hung my head and said no. Even since i got back home, i still cant really figure out what i am supposed to do with that screen. I have a vague idea, but the manual from Garmin sucks. 

So here i am, postponed another week or more until his schedule frees up. It was probably better, i was so stressed out from the oral that my stomach was really starting to hurt. I forgot to eat in the morning and my stomach was just eating itself up from stress and it was the one day i didnt bring my tums.

I asked around and that was the first time anyone has ever been asked that question on a check ride; so even my CFI was a bit miffed as the flight could have been conducted as VFR with out it. But thats what all cfi's say when their students dont pass. 

IDK, kinda down right now.

[flyboy0681]

12 minutes ago, Samurai Husky said:

thought i would do a quick update; So i passed the oral, i got a discontinuance on the flight; Didnt even leave the parking spot; 

I was going through my post engine start up and whipped passed the Garmin self check screen on the 430 and he called me on it; Its a screen i was taught once but then told 'you will never need to know anything on this screen'; 

Well turns out i did need to know and had no clue; He gave me about 20 mins to look it up online and i couldn't find an answer and so finally he said 'you know there is a lot of smoke from those fires, the visibility is kind of low do you want to continue?'

That was the hint of if i said yes, i would fail if i say no i would have another shot. So i hung my head and said no. Even since i got back home, i still cant really figure out what i am supposed to do with that screen. I have a vague idea, but the manual from Garmin sucks. 

So here i am, postponed another week or more until his schedule frees up. It was probably better, i was so stressed out from the oral that my stomach was really starting to hurt. I forgot to eat in the morning and my stomach was just eating itself up from stress and it was the one day i didnt bring my tums.

I asked around and that was the first time anyone has ever been asked that question on a check ride; so even my CFI was a bit miffed as the flight could have been conducted as VFR with out it. But thats what all cfi's say when their students dont pass. 

IDK, kinda down right now.

The startup screen is very critical and I walked my DPE through it at startup during my IR checkride. Most importantly, on the GTN (and 430/530) is the currency of the data, and the moving of the HSI to half deflection during test mode.

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

[Yetti]

my instructor said not to worry about ADF. "nobody uses those anymore"  There were 4 questions on the written test.  Missed passing by 1 question the first time around

[flyboy0681]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

my instructor said not to worry about ADF. "nobody uses those anymore"  There were 4 questions on the written test.  Missed passing by 1 question the first time around

When I took the written in 2014 I knew I had to know the ADF even though my plane doesn't have one. The only saving grace was that I didn't have to use it during my flight test.

[carusoam]

Bummer...

Check in with your CFI, put a game plan together. Execute it.

my game (90s) plan was laid out before going in...

In the event of a failure, there were two choices, bail or continue...

1) If you bail, you are done for the day...  If you are so riled that you are unable, this is your only choice... IF your not riled, you have to get through the rest of the test.  Why stop here?

2) If you continue, you can execute everything for all the credits that are still available.  Finish everything in the plan... And everything  gets checked except the GPS first page snafu...  Come back on day two, whenever that is, demonstrate your knowledge of GPS page one, from start to finish and then some...

3) From my experience, I failed the steep turns.  Finished everything else.  My penance was, I had to get additional training in steep turns and test again. Another couple (?) of hours training and tested again.   I really knew all variations of steep turns, the effect of power, when and how much, and angle of bank, and trim. success came the second time.  The failure leaves an indelible memory.  If your memory gets completely washed, that small piece is deep inside.  It gets washed out last...

4) There are a few things that are important for GPS navigation.  Sounds like that first page had the date that the database was valid til.  If you are unaware of the validity of the database, you are unable to use it for navigation or rely on it for a source of information.  My panel GPS is often outdated. But my reliable source of information is my iPad/WingX.

5) When you get to IFR training, there are additional things to know.  You have to check the accuracy of the GPS unit prior to executing an approach with it...  Newer GPS units are strong/fast enough to perform this test automatically.

6) Did you not have a game plan in the event of a red flag?  I'm guessing you did, just didn't expect to see it so early on...

7) Have you had a chance to discuss prior student catches?  It helps to know who the check pilot is and what areas he likes to review.  Our check pilot was known for distracting pilots in conversation and adjusting something on the instrument panel.  This was enough of a hint you would look forward to him trying to distract you.... I enjoyed the opportunity to talk, while watching for the quick hand...

8) what else did you learn about the check ride that came as a surprise?

9) Did you use verbal mediation to your advantage?  The art of Saying everything out loud before actually doing it...

10) I'm only a PP, but I've seen how this works in several different places.  It's a tough system, but it has it's place.  It is better if you are a full time student focussed on flying full time.  It's a killer when you have other things in your life.  Have you talked with other students?

11) Stay on it!  Keep your eyes focussed on the prize. Don't let them get you riled.  It's part of their job to make a bad day for somebody.  They can do it with the same tried and true question like 'do you want to continue..?'

12) since you have so much to go.  Develope a plan B with your flight instructor.  It is still possible to mess up one of the 20 or so things they are looking for.  You can't keep bailing after step one.  Have a predetermined answer for that crummy question, "do you want to continue...".  Like "hell yes"  or "absolutely, I've got so much more I want to show you"... Adjust your positive response to match your audience.

13) call it a bad day. Everybody has one. Don't let it get you down.  Prepare again like it is still important to you.  Raise your prep up another notch.  Look the guy in the eye when he speaks to you.  Make a friend out of the guy (he is going to try hard to avoid being too friendly).  Think positive thoughts....endlessly.

14) plan your celebration.  A round of iced cold waters for the two of you.  I bet he still refuses even if you fly like Bob Hoover taking a check ride, not the air show Bob Hoover.

I'm still not a CFI

you know...?

 

Best regards,

-a-

[clh]

Sorry to hear of the bust!  Get the answer and get right back at it.  Lately, I have been hearing there is an increase in the number discontinuances. Not sure if the examiners are trying to tell us something. or just making a point.

Either way, sit with your instructor and get the issue resolved and try again.

Good luck.

[BradB]

On July 22, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Samurai Husky said:

What do you mean impossible? I have seen G1000 Ovations with GFC700's that have WAAS? Whats impossible about it? 

As long as you have a G1000 bird with the GFC700, the upgrade to go from non-WAAS to WAAS is about 17AMU.

Those with the STEC autopilot are stranded for the moment.

 

Brad

 

[BradB]

On the turbo vs. non-turbo topic, it really depends on your mission.  I was initially only looking at ovations and was convinced that I did not want a turbo.   Fortunately, the PPI went very wrong on an ovation that I was considering.   I ended up with an Acclaim and have been very happy.  For me, now a turbo would be a must in any other plane that I consider.  I did not realize how useful the extra power at altitude would be for my mission.  I don't mind putting on the O2 and flying high for the extra speed.   Passengers don't always like the O2, so with them, I usually hang in the 12K range.    Had I needed up with the ovation, I would have been very happy and not known what I was missing.  It really is an amazing place, as well.

FWIW, I am a relatively new plane owner and am still learning many lessons here.

 

Brad

 

[mccdeuce]

Little disappointed in the examiner here. It shows a mindset shift (that I have seen a few times now) for PPLs to be so involved in the trons.  The PPL is about flying and that should be it. Because the truth is a PPL is a license to learn. 

As for the GPS database - IFR approach with an approved GPS requires current database or verification that the procedure has not been amended since the expiration of the database.

which makes it even more not relevant because this is a private ticket and not an IR. The DPE should have used it as a learning point - i emphasize that on every check flight I do that both the student and instructor should walk away learning something. 

SamHusky - hold your head high go out with the right mind knowing that you will pass and make sure you keep on learning. 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, mccdeuce said:

Little disappointed in the examiner here. It shows a mindset shift (that I have seen a few times now) for PPLs to be so involved in the trons.  The PPL is about flying and that should be it. Because the truth is a PPL is a license to learn. 

As for the GPS database - IFR approach with an approved GPS requires current database or verification that the procedure has not been amended since the expiration of the database.

which makes it even more not relevant because this is a private ticket and not an IR. The DPE should have used it as a learning point - i emphasize that on every check flight I do that both the student and instructor should walk away learning something. 

SamHusky - hold your head high go out with the right mind knowing that you will pass and make sure you keep on learning. 

While I agree with your post, it is also a failure of the instructor to not teach the student even the basics of the boot up screen.  The student should know more than "direct to"

Clarence

[TWinter]

36 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Sorry to hear this. All the more reason to get your PPL in a minimally-equipped C152, or similar, I guess.  If it ain't there you can't screw it up and the examiner can't test you on it.  Stick with it and thanks for posting.

One of the reasons I've slowed up on my IFR. I'm still working and learning ground school, but as far as applying what I'm leaning in my Mooney with the old panel and equipment I decided to wait for any CFI time and actual in the air training. From what I've read and heard if the plane is equipped when you take your check-ride you better know how to use it ,verify and know that it is working correctly. Made no sense to me to push quickly toward IFR using my current steam gauges when I knew that during midstream I would be changing my panel to Aspens etc..It will be like relearning flying all over. I expect by changing my set-up it will set my training back 6 months minimum. I probably (hopefully) would have earned the IFR ticket quicker with my old set-up because I was comfortable and simpler to use. Learning with new electronics will certainly make for a tougher learning curve. I guess that's why they call a 152 and similar " trainers". Much less to trip you up on check-rides.

 

-Tom

[bonal]

51 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Sorry to hear this. All the more reason to get your PPL in a minimally-equipped C152, or similar, I guess.  If it ain't there you can't screw it up and the examiner can't test you on it.  Stick with it and thanks for posting.

My thought exactly another reason I purchased my bare bones 150 and tested in same I knew that plane like the back of my hand. On the plus side when you do pass you will have much more knowledge to start your learning from.  You will succeed 

[Marauder]

36 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: Sorry to hear this. All the more reason to get your PPL in a minimally-equipped C152, or similar, I guess.  If it ain't there you can't screw it up and the examiner can't test you on it.  Stick with it and thanks for posting.

One of the reasons I've slowed up on my IFR. I'm still working and learning ground school, but as far as applying what I'm leaning in my Mooney with the old panel and equipment I decided to wait for any CFI time and actual in the air training. From what I've read and heard if the plane is equipped when you take your check-ride you better know how to use it ,verify and know that it is working correctly. Made no sense to me to push quickly toward IFR using my current steam gauges when I knew that during midstream I would be changing my panel to Aspens etc..It will be like relearning flying all over. I expect by changing my set-up it will set my training back 6 months minimum. I probably (hopefully) would have earned the IFR ticket quicker with my old set-up because I was comfortable and simpler to use. Learning with new electronics will certainly make for a tougher learning curve. I guess that's why they call a 152 and similar " trainers". Much less to trip you up on check-rides.

 

-Tom

Once you make that transition though, the added capability does benefit you in the IFR system.

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[Marauder]

Little disappointed in the examiner here. It shows a mindset shift (that I have seen a few times now) for PPLs to be so involved in the trons.  The PPL is about flying and that should be it. Because the truth is a PPL is a license to learn. 

As for the GPS database - IFR approach with an approved GPS requires current database or verification that the procedure has not been amended since the expiration of the database.

which makes it even more not relevant because this is a private ticket and not an IR. The DPE should have used it as a learning point - i emphasize that on every check flight I do that both the student and instructor should walk away learning something. 

SamHusky - hold your head high go out with the right mind knowing that you will pass and make sure you keep on learning. 

I think what you are seeing with his check ride is the new approach the FAA is taking with decision making. There was a student on my field who recently failed the oral for a similar reason. From my reading on the changes, there is more emphasis on knowing the systems and applying them to your decision making.

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[Samurai Husky]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I made pitty cookies last night and passed out. I feel might better today. I think if my phone rang and there was a cancellation i could jump right in and pull it off. 

I spent about 3 hours last night googling the start up screen with the self check page and i think i understand it now. I just need to go to the plane and verify.

So there was a little confusion in the thread.

1. It wasn't a FAA bust, its a discontinuance which means the flight portion never happened. So i still get my 2 strikes or what ever they give you.

2. If i had gone forward, i am not 100% sure he would have even let me fly. So the idea of saying 'ok i failed but let me get credit' was kind of out the window.

3. No one I have talked to thinks that a student needs to know that information. Yes its important for IFR, but not really for VFR, after all thats what pilotage is all about.

Its a lesson learned, as cold as it may be. 

[Andy95W]

You've got yourself a top notch examiner that took care of you.  Don't disappoint him!

[gsengle]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I made pitty cookies last night and passed out. I feel might better today. I think if my phone rang and there was a cancellation i could jump right in and pull it off. 

I spent about 3 hours last night googling the start up screen with the self check page and i think i understand it now. I just need to go to the plane and verify.

So there was a little confusion in the thread.

1. It wasn't a FAA bust, its a discontinuance which means the flight portion never happened. So i still get my 2 strikes or what ever they give you.

2. If i had gone forward, i am not 100% sure he would have even let me fly. So the idea of saying 'ok i failed but let me get credit' was kind of out the window.

3. No one I have talked to thinks that a student needs to know that information. Yes its important for IFR, but not really for VFR, after all thats what pilotage is all about.

Its a lesson learned, as cold as it may be. 

I think his point is that the GPS is for navigation either VFR or IFR, and as such a private pilot needs to know how to verify it is working correctly with up to date data. I'm just surprised your instructor never went over it...

But you're doing fine. Just sucks to be so close you can taste it..

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[Samurai Husky]

I know how to check the maps DB; they were up to date; It was only the self test portion that i wasnt sure on; The CDI wasn't displaying the self test information on the screen and i had no idea why. 

I think its because i have to set the PFD nav to VOR1 and verify it, then switch to VOR2 and verify it again. There was also a message that popped up on the screen for the MFD that said 'heading data invalid' to which i said it would go away once the self test was over. He asked if i was sure and i didnt want to lie, it was mostly a guess but made logical sense. 

Turns out that is the right answer and the 2 430's push data to the screens during the self test. The message is making sure that you dont take off before ending the self test and fly on its test data. 

[gsengle]

Gotcha

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[carusoam]

Great follow-up Sam H!

Other things to look for...and compare to...

having out-of-date paper charts and/or AFD wich used to be unlawful to have in a plane.  Back in the day...  The FAA (brilliantly) decided it was better to have no data than old data.

The FAA has come a long way in 20 years.  Slowly getting away from regulation as they move more towards guidance.

passing a check ride is more about achieving what is expected.  Not very logic oriented in some of the really old areas.

If a device is mounted in the plane it is an open target for use and questions.  Of course, it can be labeled inop to simplify things.  But, now you would need the proper way of officially documenting and labeling inop equipment.  Get with your mechanic and CFI  for this if you want to inop devices on the panel.

Back in the day we had to have ARROW documents.  They got simplified to AROW documents. The check ride was often broken when 100hr maintenance was not performed or completed on time.  CFIs looking out for their students (and themselves) would make sure the plane is ready to go the day before.

What the PP has to know is how to get their CFI and Maintenace staff to make sure the plane is ready to go for the day the test takes place. PIC is responsible.  But, he can buy the help he needs in this area. These are typically plane ownership issues. But PIC has to take ownership prior to flight...

At least Notams are easier to check than they used to be....

Similarly, VOR tests should be logged and be within date.

PP things that come to mind...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Samurai Husky]

i dont know; during the oral i got a lot of questions that i thought were directly related to IFR and had no idea why he was asking them. IE I gave him 'ARROW' and he said that wasnt sufficient... I had to look up the other 2 inspections because they are only needed for IFR certification and didn't memorize them; (altimeter inspection and static system); 

Then i was asked what marginal IFR was.

I had a crazy question like here is a metar; if you fly in this you will be written up by the FAA why? and it was something like 060007 7SM OVC090 30/22 3166 LGTCCCCG

I crossed everything off and said the only thing left is the pressure. I had to have him tell me that there is a FAR that said you cant fly when the pressure is above 31 or something like that. 

He asked why it would be hard to diagnose a sleeping female with hypoxia - because if they are wearing lipstick you cant tell if their lips are turning blue. 

Asked me to point out on the map where the minimums are 1m 512... well there was only 1 place on the sectional that had that way in the corner above the Sierra's so it took me a good 20 mins to find it since its not well defined on the printed map.

He asked what the shape of a do not enter sign was.... I said it was red with white and a circle with a line through it... he still wanted to know the shape of the sign....

The only thing with navigation is he wanted to see if i read the Chart Supplement for the destination airport. He asked if we had enough room to land, i said definitely. He said do we have enough room to land and take off IE if we had a go around. I said i wasn't sure. He asked me why he asked that question, and i remembered in the chart supplement there was a NOTAM for deer on the runway and that there was a 6ft electric fence around it except for the taxi ways. So i had to look at the airport map, look at where the taxi ways were, calculated the distance of runway between the taxi ways and figure out the landing distance should a deer pop out at any of the 6 taxi ways. 

He asked if my plane needed a magnetic compass to take off, At first i said no because the AHARS has a compass in it; He asked if i was sure, i said i would need to look at the kinds of operations list; So i went and got the book... Turns out you do need the kerosene filled compass for VFR flight.

Luckily we skipped the 'where is class e to the surface on the map, but not marked' and i had no idea. I knew the about class E airports, but i dont remember class e to the surface thats unmarked.... Unless maybe its something like firing ranges or something like that, i think thats the only thing thats unmarked. 

I think those are the ones i had the most trouble with. 

All in all i felt like they were mostly gotchya questions rather than does he know what he needs to know to survive out there...

Nothing on navigation, nothing on behavior, nothing on procedure such as 2 way communication or repeating runway and SAHS instructions. Nothing on the planes performance other than how much oil does it hold. Nothing on navigation. Other than the metar, nothing on weather or winds, or types of weather maps. Didnt even look at my W/B or nav log. Nothing about night flight at all. 

So if you ran the FAA what would you ask? Because my experience was more 'lets ask obscure questions and see if they know how to google.'