Typical landing conditions in Kansas

[nels]

I have yet to fly my E model on any long distance flight. However, I'm based in Cincinnati and have a son and daughter in Denver. My wife and I drive it a lot and I always seem to notice plenty of wind in Kansas. Does anyone fly a similar route? Kansas City is the half way point so a fill up would be a good thing to do within a 100 miles west of KC. Is it typically best in the AM or afternoon? Maybe I'm over thinking the potential wind problem but it would be nice to hear from someone who flies the area and has some insight. I'm a lower time pilot and being cautious. Probably won't attempt the first trip until spring.

i should clarify, I'm worried about cross winds and gusts when landing. I'm aware of headwinds in route to and tail winds on the way home.

Edited March 1, 2016 by nels

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Kansas, Nebraska and eastern Colorado can definitely get windy. Most Kansas airports with one runway are oriented north-south because the prevailing winds often come from those directions. I don't think you'll have any more trouble than you'd have in Ohio... just keep an eye on the forecast winds and try to fly in the mornings. Where do you plan to land in Denver?

[M20F]

If you want to break the trip up a little bit, KMKC should be close to your route of flight.  It has nice big runways and isn't exceptionally busy and reasonable gas ($3.70 right now and usually cheapest in the area).  You can park on the GA ramp for free (don't go to Atlantic/Signature), they have tie down ropes and what not.  Very nice terminal building as well.  

Very many awesome places to have lunch in KC (Q39 being my favorite if you like BBQ, get the burnt ends).  If you want to spend the night the Power & Light District is the place to be.  Uber ride is like $10-12 to just about anywhere you want to go.

Have fun, and remember the best part about visiting Kansas is you get to leave!

Edited March 1, 2016 by M20F

[Oscar Avalle]

I have not flown in Kansas, but I flew out of an airport where wind rarely slowed down to less than 15 knots. Normally, winds were around 15 to 20 knots, in a valley surrounded by mountains. Was it bumpy? You bet it was. Was it hard to land the plane, actually not that much, considering that the wind most of the times was blowing right down the runway. So at the end, once you got through the bumps over a ridge close to the airport, your landing were actually pretty nice... and easy.

[kevinw]

I have flown in to MKC and I agree, it would be a good spot if you're planning on staying in the KC area for a bit. If you're just fueling up and taking off I recommend Lee's Summit (LXT) about 15 miles south of MKC. I use to fly into there quite a bit a few years back. It's non-towered, has cheap fuel and most importantly for you, it has a crosswind runway. Just remember right traffic patterns on runways 11 and 36. Here it is on airnav. http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLXT.

[kevinw]

37 minutes ago, M20F said:

Very many awesome places to have lunch in KC (Q39 being my favorite if you like BBQ, get the burnt ends).

Next time I'm in KC I'll be there!

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I like KMKC because it's right next to downtown and the views on approach are really neat if the weather is good.

[M20F]

Just now, Joe Zuffoletto said:

I like KMKC because it's right next to downtown and the views on approach are really neat if the weather is good.

It is a really nice view along the river there, great little spot that I am flying to more now.  The towers when departing to the south aren't something I would like so much in IMC though.

[KSMooniac]

KMKC has some beautiful views in/out and is close to lots of things in KC.  KC is generally a very easy Class B without much traffic, so don't let that intimidate you.  K81 (Paola) is SW of the KC area and has great BBQ on the field if you're looking for a quick fuel/food stop without needing to drive to town.

KS in general is very windy,  There is no set pattern, either, unfortunately.  This weekend I flew Wichita-Hays-Colorado Springs and reverse, and had Hays had wind gusts to 40 knots at times.  Wichita wasn't as bad this weekend, but it sure can be!  All I can advise is to look at the TAFs along your route, and if there is significant cross wind then you might look for a stop with cross wind runways.  There are lots of former WWII bases scattered about with cross wind runways, fortunately.  As for landing in gusty conditions, the usual advice is add half of the gust speed to your reference final approach speed.  You may want to use takeoff flaps only, and/or add full flaps closer to the ground if you feel like it.  I'm not a CFI, though.   Runways here are generally pretty long, so if you do carry extra speed just be very patient on landing and let it bleed off so you don't get into a bouncing situation the ends up in a prop strike.

Don't let the winds deter you!  Time to stretch your legs in the E and really use it for what it was meant to do!

[Yetti]

I think you will find the same thing things that make a mooney slippery and fast make it really docile in gusty crosswinds.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Yetti

[nels]

I gotta say, I like this group. Lots of good info. As far as the airport in Denver, I'm not sure; probably Centennial but for sure a smaller airport than Denver International.

[FlyDave]

Nels,

if you're going into Denver make sure you're aware of winds aloft - especially out of the west. They can create severe turbulence and dangerous conditions. 

Check AIRMETs and SIGMETs for your arrival time. You DON'T want to be caught by surprise by mountain wave and rotor! At a minimum it will make your wife not want to fly in you're Mooney again.

Dave

[jlunseth]

I live in the midwest and fly Missouri, Kansas and the Dakotas regularly.  Definitely takeoff flaps or no flaps.  Some people will advocate full flaps even in windy conditions.  But I have found from experience that you need some extra speed to gain the necessary rudder authority, certainly in my K you do, and if you fly a landing with extra speed and full flaps the plane is subject to ballooning and bouncing in gusty winds, which is the worst thing you can do.  

I was in Missouri last night to refuel, on a trip back from Arkansas.

WInds aloft are not noticeable in the aircraft except for the effect on GS, positive or negative.  Turbulence is, but not winds aloft.  You can be in some very strong winds aloft, in the 100 knot range, and never feel it.  Foreflight has a great function in Map mode for figuring out what altitude will be best.

[Jeff_S]

I fly from Atlanta to KOJC (Johnson County Kansas) pretty often to visit family.  That is one runway, almost due North/South. And yes, it can be pretty breezy at times. I set my personal best for a crosswind landing there last April, with winds 25G40 straight across the runway.  Did have to go around once, but nailed it the second time. I was going to KCMC as my backup if needed.  On the other hand, I've found that stiff crosswinds do miracles to scrub the air out from under the wing and minimize the float that you can get from a Mooney. But as with any landings, speed control is still critical.

 

[steingar]

One thing I will miss about the old Cherokee.  In bad crosswinds I'd come in well above my normal approach speed and get the aircraft in to ground effect.  Once I pulled the throttle it would slow down right away and I could make a pretty good landing, even a relatively short runway.  I don't envision doing that in the Mooney.  Still, lithe runway is sufficiently long it could work.  But yeah, more speed gives you better rudder authority, and sometimes that's the only thing that will keep you lined up.  Either that or go someplace where the runways are better aligned with the wind.

If the OP is that worried about crosswinds he should try landing one of the Lake Erie airports on a gusty day.  There are usually huge crosswinds coming off the lake, at least every time I fly up there.

[KSMooniac]

Just heard on the radio that Wichita has wind gusts to 43 MPH right now!  Unfortunately this isn't unusual.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Yeah, it's blowing like hell along the Front Range today too.

[CaptainAB]

That's a long trip. Do you have your instrument rating? It probably would be best to do it by yourself first or even better with a co pilot. I think bringing your wife along the first time might be too stressful? 

It might sound silly but you might try "exploring" it first. Maybe set up to go 1/3 or so the fist time and build your comfort and familiarity with the route. No matter what those type of trips you always need to think about and have a plan and a back up plan for the return trip. 

[nels]

29 minutes ago, CaptainAB said:

That's a long trip. Do you have your instrument rating? It probably would be best to do it by yourself first or even better with a co pilot. I think bringing your wife along the first time might be too stressful? 

It might sound silly but you might try "exploring" it first. Maybe set up to go 1/3 or so the fist time and build your comfort and familiarity with the route. No matter what those type of trips you always need to think about and have a plan and a back up plan for the return trip. 

No, I don't have my instrument rating but I have something I consider even better....time. I'm retired and plan on taking no chances. I'm not going to fly at night and I can wait out the weather if need be or return home and try again later.

I agree with you on exploring first and I plan on doing just that. A trip to St. Louis and back and then maybe to KC and back. These trips by myself or maybe with a friend or pilot friend.

[steingar]

2 hours ago, nels said:

No, I don't have my instrument rating but I have something I consider even better....time. I'm retired and plan on taking no chances. I'm not going to fly at night and I can wait out the weather if need be or return home and try again later.

I'd be damn careful about doing this.  Flying over unpopulated terrain on a starless night might be legal VFR, but it looks a whole lot like IFR and is a dangerous place for a VFR pilot to be.

[N601RX]

I flew out to a ballgame in Manhattan Ks last year.  It was about 100 miles west of KC and had crossing runways. If you end up in KC Author Bryant's is the BBQ place to go to.  I would think you should be able to find a CFII or other more experienced pilot willing to make the trip with you the 1st time if your not comfortable by yourself.   A one way ticket for them back to Cincinnati shouldn't cost very much.  In good weather with the sun to your back it should be an enjoyable trip.

If you don't have an autopilot it will be a big help if you can get your wife to be a more active "crew member"on these trips.  It  makes a big difference to have a second person on board who can handle simple task or hold the plane on course while you attend to them.

If you plan to make this a regular trip VFR your favorite tablet or iPad  with flight software and possibly a weather reciever will be a good investment if you don't already have one.

[N201MKTurbo]

When I bought my first Mooney I lived in Denver (Aurora) and flew the plane over the rocks almost every day. Descending through the passes in the afternoon can be harrowing. 

One day I had just landed on a flight from Aspen at about 5:00 PM. I went into the airport office and an old guy asked how my flight was? I said it was OK so he asked why I looked so green... Maybe it was a little bumpy...

[flight2000]

20 minutes ago, steingar said:

I'd be damn careful about doing this.  Flying over unpopulated terrain on a starless night might be legal VFR, but it looks a whole lot like IFR and is a dangerous place for a VFR pilot to be.

Which is why he said "I'm NOT going to fly at night." 

I liked flying in Kansas/Missouri at night, winds were usually less and the big dark spots are usually huge wheat or corn fields....

Lee's Summit is a good stop because they have multiple runways available.  Sherman Army Airfield at Fort Leavenworth is also a good place to stop because the airport sits well below the terrain to the West and it blocks the wind a lot of times.  I flew out of there for about 3 years and never had issues with X-Wind's.  The river flooding is a whole different story however... 

Cheers,

Brian

Edited March 3, 2016 by flight2000

[N201MKTurbo]

One night I was in a VFR flight from ABQ to Phoenix at about 1:00 AM. I had a plane full of people and a non pilot friend of mine was in the right seat flying. He was a good stick and flew quite well even knew how to follow a needle. He told me he was flying by the instruments and I told him that was unlikely without a lot of practice. It was pretty dark out but there was still some stars and lights on the ground. I wasn't paying much attention, chatting with the people in the back. 

All of a sudden my flying friend jabs me with his elbow and says there is something wrong with the airplane! He couldn't steer it anymore, it was going crazy! 

I took the controls and looked outside and we had flown into a cloud. The plane was only off be a few hundred feet and a few degrees, so no big deal. I told him "see, you can't fly by instruments" as soon as he lost those tiny little visual clues he lost control of the plane.

The point is, it doesn't take much in the way of visual clues to maintain control of the plane visually, but clouds are hard to see on a dark night, and if you fly into one you could loose control if you don't know how to fly on instruments.

you don't need a whole instrument rating, you just have to be competent controlling the plane on instruments.