Garmin 430

[Pictreed]

I'm looking at a plane with a Garmin 430 and was going to upgrade it to WAAS which would also require a new antennae. 

If I added a 530W or a GTN 750, would I even need to upgrade the 430 and would it work off the same antennae as the bigger unit?

 

Tim

[ArtVandelay]

I think for redundancy you would want 2 separate antennas, when I was in you position, I replaced the 430. My backup is my iPad and VOR,ILS on second nav com radio.

[Pictreed]

Part of the reason for wanting the additional GPS is to get rid of the old Bendix King Nav/Com radio. 

I didn't want to rely on the iPad since its not legal for navigation.  

My goal is IFR redundancy. 

Tim

[ArtVandelay]

My 650 required a new antenna so if the answer is antenna specific keep that in mind.

[Marauder]

Part of the reason for wanting the additional GPS is to get rid of the old Bendix King Nav/Com radio. 

I didn't want to rely on the iPad since its not legal for navigation.  

My goal is IFR redundancy. 

Tim

What you are going to find is that most Mooneys have 1 WAAS GPS not 2. It does pose a risk to some degree but if you lose the solo GPS, often you will still be in radar coverage or forced to ride the airways regardless.

Since I installed my GPS in late 2012, I have yet to be given a "direct to" clearance. I'm usually stuck on the airways and maybe given a direct to at some point nearing the destination.

When my second Nav/Com went to the Happy Avionics Pearly Gates, I installed a Garmin GNC 255. As for the iPad navigation, I have never seen any discrepancy between what it displays and the certified box. My backup is the Aspen's emergency GPS.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

I have not seen GPS units sharing an antenna.  They are pretty sensitive.  Putting their antennae too close together can cause interference issues.  Using old wires from previous installations can cause issues.

Expect the new device to have a specific antenna and wiring details. They work together as a system...

Best regards,

-a-

[kevinw]

I added a 530W to my panel that had a 430 that I upgraded to waas a year before. I was told for the boxes to crossfill they both need to be the same (both waas or non-waas). Keep in mind by upgrading the 430 to waas it will get a faster processor and also be supported by Garmin far into the future. The upgrade is more of an overhaul I believe. Here's some info from Garmin. http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/waasupgrade?#fragment-1

[ArtVandelay]

Since I installed my GPS in late 2012, I have yet to be given a "direct to" clearance. I'm usually stuck on the airways and maybe given a direct to at some point nearing the destination.

Really? I file /g and have gotten direct many times, and usually get then on GPS approaches.

I normally stick to airways just to avoid the many MOA areas.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

 

Really? I file /g and have gotten direct many times, and usually get then on GPS approaches.

I normally stick to airways just to avoid the many MOA areas.

I do most of my flying in the Northeast and I think it is much easier for ATC to keep us on the airways than have us traversing across them. I also can't remember the last time I got a "Cleared as Filed" in the Northeast. I thought this past weekend flying to the Mooney Fly-in I was going to get a "As Filed" because there were other flights on fltpn.com with the routing I filed. But nooooo, they had to give me vectors and an intercept to the airway.

[Mooneymite]

26 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I do most of my flying in the Northeast and I think it is much easier for ATC to keep us on the airways than have us traversing across them. I also can't remember the last time I got a "Cleared as Filed" in the Northeast. I thought this past weekend flying to the Mooney Fly-in I was going to get a "As Filed" because there were other flights on fltpn.com with the routing I filed. But nooooo, they had to give me vectors and an intercept to the airway.

What a difference a few hundred miles makes!

I fly around Atlanta's class B and can't remember the last time I didn't get "cleared as filed".....and my filing is always GPS "direct".

Obviously, I am sometimes given vectors, but rarely a re-route.

When I'm flying in/out of the NE for work, it's just like you say.....but squawking 7600 usually simplifies things.  

[Glenn]

The trick to off-airway clearances may be filing using the IACO form.  I read about this requirement a few years ago, began using it and almost always get cleared direct.  Granted I live in the barren mid-west, but often fly to DC, Florida and New Jersey.  From Indianapolis to KMJX I can depend on KEYE BUNTS RBV KMJX.  Leaving NJ I will get a full route clearance, but if I ask Harrisburg Approach, I will always get re-cleared destination direct.  The IACO form is a bit of a pain, but if you store your info with FLTPLAN.com they then take care of it.   Try it.  It might help.

[DonMuncy]

5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Since I installed my GPS in late 2012, I have yet to be given a "direct to" clearance. I'm usually stuck on the airways and maybe given a direct to at some point nearing the destination.

I think it depends a lot on where you are and also on what altitudes you fly, Yesterday I filed for 13.000 ft from Dallas (RBD) to South Carolina (KCEU). I was given a departure out of Dallas, and after about 15 minutes, direct CEU. Except for a deviation of about 15 minutes to go around a MOA that went active, I flew direct the whole way. I find that in the low to mid teens, there is almost no traffic.

Incidentally, I had tail-winds the whole way ranging from 20 to 30 knots. Turned a 5 hour flight into a 4 hour flight.

[Mooneymite]

Apparently, if one uses fltplan.com, when you file direct across multiple centers, it inserts phantom waypoints that the center computers see, but don't appear in your routing.  This facilitates getting cleared direct somehow, but I'll defer to the ATC experts to explain it all.  It could all be an OWT.  I couldn't even find out about it on the Internet!

[DonMuncy]

I did file through Flightplan, but I have no idea how they do it.

[Bob_Belville]

43 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Apparently, if one uses fltplan.com, when you file direct across multiple centers, it inserts phantom waypoints that the center computers see, but don't appear in your routing.  This facilitates getting cleared direct somehow, but I'll defer to the ATC experts to explain it all.  It could all be an OWT.  I couldn't even find out about it on the Internet!

I've seen that on the email the fltplan.com sends giving the expected routing. The 1st time it happened I entered the WPs before talking to clearance delivery. When I did that they gave me direct destination (as filed). 

But I fly through Marauder's playground going to New England and it is different from the Southeast. I get the airway stuff. However most of the time ATC will give me dir to WPs that cut corners of the airways. I suspect that's done inside the controller's own sector.

[Marauder]

The trick to off-airway clearances may be filing using the IACO form.  I read about this requirement a few years ago, began using it and almost always get cleared direct.  Granted I live in the barren mid-west, but often fly to DC, Florida and New Jersey.  From Indianapolis to KMJX I can depend on KEYE BUNTS RBV KMJX.  Leaving NJ I will get a full route clearance, but if I ask Harrisburg Approach, I will always get re-cleared destination direct.  The IACO form is a bit of a pain, but if you store your info with FLTPLAN.com they then take care of it.   Try it.  It might help.

Garmin Pilot just loaded the IACO stuff into the app. Anyone know what all that needs to be filled out?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

43 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: Apparently, if one uses fltplan.com, when you file direct across multiple centers, it inserts phantom waypoints that the center computers see, but don't appear in your routing.  This facilitates getting cleared direct somehow, but I'll defer to the ATC experts to explain it all.  It could all be an OWT.  I couldn't even find out about it on the Internet!

I've seen that on the email the fltplan.com sends giving the expected routing. The 1st time it happened I entered the WPs before talking to clearance delivery. When I did that they gave me direct destination (as filed). 

But I fly through Marauder's playground going to New England and it is different from the Southeast. I get the airway stuff. However most of the time ATC will give me dir to WPs that cut corners of the airways. I suspect that's done inside the controller's own sector.

I remember the time you visit me Bob and got one of Dante's level as a clearance coming out of my airport. They tossed everything at you on that clearance. No wonder why you haven't been back

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[kpaul]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Anyone know what all that needs to be filled out?

Not sure what form Garmin Pilot uses, if it is the FAA Form 7233-4 then it is covered here http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/aim.pdf section 5-1-9. 

[Bob_Belville]

15 hours ago, Marauder said:

I remember the time you visit me Bob and got one of Dante's level as a clearance coming out of my airport. They tossed everything at you on that clearance. No wonder why you haven't been back

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Yeah, that was quite a clearance using airways and fixes I was not familiar with to get me out of Philly. I've gotten similar complexity departing KIWI in ME or 6B6 in MA. KLNS is not as bad. Aren't you glad we have GTNs? 

But I need to spend a weekend visiting my brother (Springfield PA) so I might come by again. 

[Marauder]

The good news is we now have a direct phone line to Philly Clearance, no more RCO stuff.

The GTNs really do make things easier. I do wish they would present a way to enter an airway without a waypoint entry. I seem to get vectored out of the way and they told to pick up the airway. What I usually do is wait until I see I am on the airway centerline and then select the next airway waypoint to navigate to.

I also have gotten fly "VXXX" intercept "VYYY" then the next waypoint. I like the Aspen airway depiction of crossing airways to know when I am established on the radial of the crossing airway.

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[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

The good news is we now have a direct phone line to Philly Clearance, no more RCO stuff.

The GTNs really do make things easier. I do wish they would present a way to enter an airway without a waypoint entry. I seem to get vectored out of the way and they told to pick up the airway. What I usually do is wait until I see I am on the airway centerline and then select the next airway waypoint to navigate to.

I also have gotten fly "VXXX" intercept "VYYY" then the next waypoint. I like the Aspen airway depiction of crossing airways to know when I am established on the radial of the crossing airway.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'll have to look at that. Can you not insert an airway (and exit WP) into your flight plan after the last WP you've passed, then hit "direct", "flight plan" and select a WP along the airway?

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I'll have to look at that. Can you not insert an airway (and exit WP) into your flight plan after the last WP you've passed, then hit "direct", "flight plan" and select a WP along the airway?

I'm still trying different things on the trainer app. A classic example happened to me on the way to the Mooney Fly-in. I was given RV Mazie V3 SBJ Direct. As I was flying it, I was given a heading and then told to "intercept V3 then as assigned".

The vector took me south of the airway and I needed to wait until I was on V3 before I hit the "direct to" feature for Mazie. I'm sure someone else has a better way.

The latter is more challenging since there is no waypoint. On one flight I was given "V29 intercept V44, CANNY, V16 as filed". In that case, I waited until I was centered on V44 on the Aspen before I hit "direct CANNY". Again, I'm sure there is an easier way.

[ArtVandelay]

Here is video that discusses this:

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

I'm still trying different things on the trainer app. A classic example happened to me on the way to the Mooney Fly-in. I was given RV Mazie V3 SBJ Direct. As I was flying it, I was given a heading and then told to "intercept V3 then as assigned".

The vector took me south of the airway and I needed to wait until I was on V3 before I hit the "direct to" feature for Mazie. I'm sure someone else has a better way.

The latter is more challenging since there is no waypoint. On one flight I was given "V29 intercept V44, CANNY, V16 as filed". In that case, I waited until I was centered on V44 on the Aspen before I hit "direct CANNY". Again, I'm sure there is an easier way.

I'm sure you know that when you hit dir that you can then hit flight plan and select any WP on the FP. The GTN/ASPEN/GPSS/STEC will then pick up the rest of the FP route. Airways entered into FPs on the GTN result in a whole string of intersections/WPs. 

(I don't think I've been told to intercept an airway without being given a heading to fly until the intercept. What I'm usually given in the NE is a reroute to fly direct to a WP on the FP that cuts the corner of a dogleg airway or 2 airways. If you're cleared to intercept an airway w/o a heading you could turn dir to whatever WP/intersection you choose.?) 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Marauder said: I'm still trying different things on the trainer app. A classic example happened to me on the way to the Mooney Fly-in. I was given RV Mazie V3 SBJ Direct. As I was flying it, I was given a heading and then told to "intercept V3 then as assigned".

The vector took me south of the airway and I needed to wait until I was on V3 before I hit the "direct to" feature for Mazie. I'm sure someone else has a better way.

The latter is more challenging since there is no waypoint. On one flight I was given "V29 intercept V44, CANNY, V16 as filed". In that case, I waited until I was centered on V44 on the Aspen before I hit "direct CANNY". Again, I'm sure there is an easier way.

I'm sure you know that when you hit dir that you can then hit flight plan and select any WP on the FP. The GTN/ASPEN/GPSS/STEC will then pick up the rest of the FP route. Airways entered into FPs on the GTN result in a whole string of intersections/WPs. 

(I don't think I've been told to intercept an airway without being given a heading to fly until the intercept. What I'm usually given in the NE is a reroute to fly direct to a WP on the FP that cuts the corner of a dogleg airway or 2 airways. If you're cleared to intercept an airway w/o a heading you could turn dir to whatever WP/intersection you choose.?) 

TJ's video shows ways to do this. The GNS series doesn't have the victor airways loaded and in some ways this makes it easier.

The GTN series wants a nice orderly succession. If you try to load an airway without an entry or exit point, it gets a little nasty. I found for places ATC likes to force an airway to airway entry without an official waypoint, you can create a user waypoint. It would be cool if they allowed an airway intercept point.

In some regards, just tuning two VORs to the radials was easier. It is the flight plan disruption is what I am trying to check on. I think once you are on it, you're golden.