Tires and tubes

[nels]

What tires are recommended: 4 ply, 6 ply or 8 ply. A fair amount of weight difference from one to the other. Any special tube? 

Plane is a 66 E model.

Edited October 20, 2015 by nels

[Shadrach]

I don't believe that tire specs fall into the "recommended" category. I believe that 6 ply tires are specified for all wheels.

People have all manner of opinions on brands.

I personally use Michelin Airstop tubes with Wilkerson Retreads. 

My opinion on tubes is that they can be reused once if one uses a high quality tube that was performing well when removed and has no hard creases from the previous install. 

Do not assume that  all tires will have the exact same dimensions. Take the time to ensure that proper clearence is attained under all conditions. The nose gear door on a Mooney has the potential to interlock with the grooves in the tire thus preventing the gear from dropping.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Shadrach

[Marauder]

According to Aircraft Spruce's application chart the mains are 6 ply and the nose is a 4 ply for an E: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/tirestubesappchart.php

As for tubes, I'm using Michelin Airstop. Expensive but never need to add air.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Yetti]

Tires is one of the things listed in the Type Data Sheet  6.00-6 Type III 6 ply in the mains   5.00-5 Type III 4 ply in the nose   http://www.67m20e.com/Mooney TCDS 2A3 Rev 52 dtd 9DEC10.pdf   Looks like an F model uses a 6 ply in the nose.

[Yetti]

The type data sheet says a 4 ply nose and 6 ply nose both weigh 7 lbs

[Shadrach]

The type data sheet says a 4 ply nose and 6 ply nose both weigh 7 lbs

I wonder how equal weight is accomplished with one tire having a higher load rating? I also wonder why Mooney would spec a lower strength tire if the more robust tire weighs the same.  Even with the F's high MGW, it's almost always going to have less weight on the nose compared to an E.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Shadrach

[nels]

 

Do not assume that  all tires will have the exact same dimensions. Take the time to ensure that proper clearence is attained under all conditions. The nose gear door on a Mooney has the potential to interlock with the grooves in the tire thus preventing the gear from dropping.

Interesting. Thanks

[StinkBug]

I wonder how equal weight is accomplished with one tire having a higher load rating? I also wonder why Mooney would spec a lower strength tire if the more robust tire weighs the same.  Even with the F's high MGW, it's almost always going to have less weight on the nose compared to an E.

Pretty simple really, different construction techniques. Tire Ply ratings are simply measures of strength, not how many actual plies the tires contain. Different materials manufactured different ways yield different strength. Same way you can construct a contractors ladder from fiberglass or metal and have the same strength but wildly different weights.

[RLCarter]

Here is what the "Type Certificate Data Sheet" says

Landing Gear:

201. ....Two, Main Wheel/Brake Assemblies, 6.00-6

(a)    Cleveland Wheel/Brake Assy, Model No. 38500-HA/Brake Assy, C-2000H........................... 14 lbs.

202. .......Two main wheel, 6-ply rating, tires

(a)               6.00-6, Type III w/ regular tubes ...................................................................................... 17 lbs.

205. .......One, Nose Wheel, 5.00-5

(a)               Goodyear, Model L5NDB, Assy. No. 95206532 ................................................................. 3 lbs.

(b)               Cleveland, Model 40-33.........................................……...................................................... 4 lbs.

206. .......One, Nose Wheel Tire, 4-Ply Rating, tire (a) 5.00-5, Type III w/ regular tube.......................... 7 lbs.

Ply rating refers to LOAD capacity. The tires DO NOT weigh the same, one Main Wheel Assy. weighs the same a Nose tire

1 Main Wheel/Tube/Tire = 15.5lbs, Nose Wheel/Tube/Tire = 10 or 11lbs depending on the Wheel

Edited October 24, 2015 by RLCarter

[carusoam]

Thanks for sharing the detailed research, gentlemen.

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

Can't find any tire manufacturer that recommends reusing a tube.  

They can stretch up to 25% with use. Stretch means more chance of folds and failures.

Thinks of all the rubbing and small movement between the tire and tube as it flexes during taxi and landing.

The tube wall is thinner after use. Just look at the rubber powder (not the talc) inside the tire when it comes off. 

It does happen, why take the chance? Tire AND tube=good to go. 

[Immelman]

FWIW, IF you decide to deviate from the FAA-spec tire on the NLG, use a higher pressure. Look at the inflation for an F model with its 6-ply NLG tire.

I'm not saying that deviating from the TCDS is the right thing to do... but I can tell you from experience that if you stick the 6-ply on the nose and then inflate it to 30psi, it will be under-inflated for the load on it.

[cliffy]

And have a conversation with your IA as if he signs off the annual and a FED has a bad day the IA may get dinged and the guy signing off the tire also.

I have known it to happen but rarely.  

[Shadrach]

Here is what the "Type Certificate Data Sheet" says

Landing Gear:

201. ....Two, Main Wheel/Brake Assemblies, 6.00-6

(a)    Cleveland Wheel/Brake Assy, Model No. 38500-HA/Brake Assy, C-2000H........................... 14 lbs.

202. .......Two main wheel, 6-ply rating, tires

(a)               6.00-6, Type III w/ regular tubes ...................................................................................... 17 lbs.

205. .......One, Nose Wheel, 5.00-5

(a)               Goodyear, Model L5NDB, Assy. No. 95206532 ................................................................. 3 lbs.

(b)               Cleveland, Model 40-33.........................................……...................................................... 4 lbs.

206. .......One, Nose Wheel Tire, 4-Ply Rating, tire (a) 5.00-5, Type III w/ regular tube.......................... 7 lbs.

Ply rating refers to LOAD capacity. The tires DO NOT weigh the same, one Main Wheel Assy. weighs the same a Nose tire

1 Main Wheel/Tube/Tire = 15.5lbs, Nose Wheel/Tube/Tire = 10 or 11lbs depending on the Wheel

Check the TCDS for the weight of the 6ply nose tire for the F; I believe you'll find the weight is also listed at 7lbs.  Not the first inconsistency I've found in the Mooney TCDS or any other Mooney pub and it won't be the last. In spite of Stink bug's suggestion that they are made of different materials, I think they that in the real world they are actually different weights.

[Shadrach]

Can't find any tire manufacturer that recommends reusing a tube.  

They can stretch up to 25% with use. Stretch means more chance of folds and failures.

Thinks of all the rubbing and small movement between the tire and tube as it flexes during taxi and landing.

The tube wall is thinner after use. Just look at the rubber powder (not the talc) inside the tire when it comes off. 

It does happen, why take the chance? Tire AND tube=good to go. 

To each their own. My IA agrees with me. Tubes are inspectable like many other items.  I've been flying this bird regularly for 13 years. In that time we've never had a flat.  Do you rotate you mains?  If so, do you put the stretched and worn tubes back in? 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Shadrach

[RLCarter]

I wouldn't take the weight of the tire in the TCDS as gospel, ply rating> yes, weight>no. You can take any 2 tires that are identical (brand, size, and ply, etc...) and they will weigh in differently, and a 5.00-5 in brand "X"will measure differently in both weight and dimension over brand "Y". My guess is the added weight of the "Mid Body" justified moving to a 6ply rating on the nose..........

[Shadrach]

I wouldn't take the weight of the tire in the TCDS as gospel, ply rating> yes, weight>no. You can take any 2 tires that are identical (brand, size, and ply, etc...) and they will weigh in differently, and a 5.00-5 in brand "X"will measure differently in both weight and dimension over brand "Y". My guess is the added weight of the "Mid Body" justified moving to a 6ply rating on the nose..........

All other things being equal the Mid-body is ~40lbs heavier than the short body with all of the added weight aft of the main wheels.  While the F can carry an additional 165lbs, almost all of it would be behind the mains. I would be surprised if there is a significant difference in weight on the nose (the mid-body may even have less weight over the nose). What surprises me is the C vs the E, as I am pretty sure that the angle valve IO360 is about 40lbs heavier than parallel valve O360.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Shadrach

[RobertGary1]

The difference could be nothing more interesting as what Mooney certified the plane with. So that's what we're stuck with unless someone has some approved procedure to change it.

 

-Robert

[cliffy]

I've never had to rotate my tires as they wear evenly across the tread on my airplane.

I was just passing the info along from the tire and tube manufacturers recommendations.

If your IA feels comfortable in using used tubes it's his choice and license. Not second guessing him.  

[RLCarter]

As a Pivate Pilot (or higher) you can change your own tires as "Preventative Maintinance" and sign them off in the Log Book. I would always install new tubes unless it was a trainer which gets tons of landings and the tires wear out fairly quick, inspect the tube including age, then make  decission. It's also a good time to inspect/re-pack the wheel bearings. If you do not have a wheel balancer at the very least align the colored "Dot" or "Circle" with the valve stem. 

[Shadrach]

I've never had to rotate my tires as they wear evenly across the tread on my airplane.

I was just passing the info along from the tire and tube manufacturers recommendations.

If your IA feels comfortable in using used tubes it's his choice and license. Not second guessing him.  

My IA feels comfortable allowing tubes to remainin service if they're in good condition. He does not keep a stack of used tubes around for installation. Perhaps my tire my pressure gauge is inaccurate. My tires wear with a bias towards the inside of the tire. If they are not rotated, the 2 inner groves on each tire tend to wear out first.  Am I the only one who has tires that wear this way?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Shadrach

[cliffy]

Probably not. I've seen many airplanes that wear out their tires that way. Mine just wears even. My guess would be a gear alignment issue but I've never looked into it too deeply.

[RobertGary1]

I've always had my tires wear out from weathering. I recall at one point a tire and tube was prices somewhat reasonably, about the price of a car tire. Seems like in the last 5 years they've gotten a lot more expensive. 

-Robert

[Shadrach]

I've always had my tires wear out from weathering. I recall at one point a tire and tube was prices somewhat reasonably, about the price of a car tire. Seems like in the last 5 years they've gotten a lot more expensive. 

-Robert

If you go with top notch tire and tube it's getting close to $300 for each main and $250 for the nose. I think it's rediculous.

[jetdriven]

Desser retreads are less than a hundred bucks.  But a good Michelin airstop tube is more.