New King KI 300 Electronic AI

[aviatoreb]

Mike, I'm not sure that's going to be the case. Don't forget that the Aspen needs a second backup AI which invariably adds to the cost. As an example the Lifesaver will add another 4 grand on top of the aspen.

The KI300 does not require a backup AI. Probably because it's DO-178B criticality level B. (Aspen is only level C.) MSRP is 6 grand and street will probably be lower.

And it's a direct replacement of the venerable KI25x. No extra boxes to worry about.

I think it's a no brainer! It is exactly what's been missing all along!

 

Install is trivial too - no several week rewiring of the whole panel process.  It is a drop in for the K256 I already have, isn't it?

[PTK]

Install is trivial too - no several week rewiring of the whole panel process. It is a drop in for the K256 I already have, isn't it?

That's my understanding according to the announcement Erik.

[Alan Fox]

It has a different connector on the back ,(I saw it at Osh) I believe there is an adapter harness to mate it to a previous install , but I will need power wires and a separate breaker , so it is probably a 3 to 6 hour install.....

[carqwik]

From Avweb....at Oshkosh with the BK rep...

 

https://youtu.be/LFxofyPFciU

[CCowboy]

This got my attention and did stop by the Bendix King tent and discussed it. The estimated price point is $6k. Expect avavailability in December. It has back up ADHARS and a backup battery. Can be certified without vacuum backup. So half the price of an Aspen, but Aspen gives you a soild state HSI and redundant airspeed/altitude. A cost vs options evaluation is needed.

[Marauder]

This got my attention and did stop by the Bendix King tent and discussed it. The estimated price point is $6k. Expect avavailability in December. It has back up ADHARS and a backup battery. Can be certified without vacuum backup. So half the price of an Aspen, but Aspen gives you a soild state HSI and redundant airspeed/altitude. A cost vs options evaluation is needed.

It will be interesting to see where the final installed price sits with this product. It would be a great solution for one wanting to rid themselves of a vacuum system.

It is priced right at that pain point. Do I pay $11k for an Aspen that gives me an HSI, airspeed indicator, altimeter, GPSS, VSI, backup GPS & RMIs or $6kish (assuming they will be discounted somewhat) that can eliminate vacuum, protect from electrical failure and is solid state.

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[PTK]

This got my attention and did stop by the Bendix King tent and discussed it. The estimated price point is $6k. Expect avavailability in December. It has back up ADHARS and a backup battery. Can be certified without vacuum backup. So half the price of an Aspen, but Aspen gives you a soild state HSI and redundant airspeed/altitude. A cost vs options evaluation is needed.

It's not an apples to apples comparison.

First, the cost of the Aspen is more than double that of the KI300 due to much higher install cost of former.

Second the KI300 gives you higher assurance level. This is extremely significant.

Third, dependancy on vacuum or any backup is removed with the KI300. Not so with Aspen.

So even at the full MSRP of 6K the KI300 is a bargain. More so for King equipped panels.

This is a much needed HUGE development from BK and a game changer!

[aviatoreb]

It's not an apples to apples comparison.

First, the cost of the Aspen is more than double that of the KI300 due to much higher install cost of former.

Second the KI300 gives you higher assurance level. This is extremely significant.

Third, dependancy on vacuum or any backup is removed with the KI300. Not so with Aspen.

So even at the full MSRP of 6K the KI300 is a bargain. More so for King equipped panels.

This is a much needed HUGE development from BK and a game changer!

 

Agree with Mauraduer - they did a good job of pricing it at the pain point.  High enough that I hesitate and would think of the Aspen, low enough that I probably would go with the King for all the reasons you said Peter.

 

My guess is that if the unit costs 6k then it would be 6.5k installed.  Meanwhile if the aspen is 11k, then it is 13-14k installed.

 

My ideal king unit would be a KI300 that also shows synthetic vision - I doubt this is coming soon.  But maybe....

 

Then a matching king hsi as an electronic unit - I would bet money that the later is coming - soon.  Probably also for 6k.

[aviatoreb]

Does anyone know if it is to change the actuation mechanism on my vacuum driven speed brakes to electric, without buying a whole new speed brake kit and install?  Surely someone has already done that.  I wonder how much.

[carqwik]

What is the value of a KI-256 when removed from a panel?  That would lower the cost of any installation...  And assuming that it can be certified without the vacuum system (please say it's so BK and Mooney factory), there are additional savings ahead since no vacuum pump replacement is necessary and in the Bravo the stand-by clutch driven pump can be removed as well.  And probably some useful load gain and less weight up front...sweet!

[gsengle]

Yes they amended the cert to allow vacuum removal I believe

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[kortopates]

Does anyone know if it is to change the actuation mechanism on my vacuum driven speed brakes to electric, without buying a whole new speed brake kit and install? Surely someone has already done that. I wonder how much.

You'll basically install a whole new electric speed brake kit - nothing from the old system will be re-used except for the electrical wiring from the yoke and panel to the vacuum regulator. I expect that wire can be used to extend power to the two new brakes that have their actuators built into the brake cartridges. This assumes too that the newer brake cartridges will fit into the existing wing cut outs without further sheet metal work but that would need to be verified. But if all fits install labor should be closer to a quarter of what a new installation from scratch would be (i.e. 10-15hrs)

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[Bennett]

A few questions: Currently I am using a Icarus SAM for GPSS steering with a KAP 150 autopilot. Nice combination and I wonder how the KI 300 would interface with them. They say that the KI 300 will drive the KAP 150, but would I have to give up the SAM?. The only thing using vacuum in the airplane now is the KI 256, and for that I have the usual vacuum pump, plus an electric backup pump in the tail cone. It would be nice to get rid of them, and the 2" vacuum gauge in the panel. Selling the KI 256, and the electric standby pump would help defray part of the cost. I also wonder if Mooney will modify the type certificate to allow the removal of the vacuum system.

[carusoam]

I believe...

Craig went through the effort to remove the vacuum system when he went all electric in his J, a couple of years ago.

He had a combination of Aspens and other things.

Photos are probably in his gallery.

Try this on for size... http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8456-vacuum-system-removal/?hl=%2Bremove+%2Bvacuum+%2Bsystem

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

Bennett , The AI will not affect the GPSS as this feeds the Heading / Course info to the autopilot between the HSI and the Main AP controller , other than the power feeds it will be a seamless install....

[Bennett]

Bennett , The AI will not affect the GPSS as this feeds the Heading / Course info to the autopilot between the HSI and the Main AP controller , other than the power feeds it will be a seamless install....

.

Thank you. I thought that that was the case. Time to save up some AMUs.

[Awful_Charlie]

Comparing an Aspen with a KI300 is a bit like comparing a Mooney with a C152 ;-) Yep, there are some features that are similar, but it's not really a like for like comparison.

 

I'm actually looking at putting one it to go *with* my Aspen - that way I get a second horizon (fulfils the Aspen requirement), can junk the vacuum system (25lbs useful back - yay!), and it works out at a similar cost to getting the Aspen EA100 adapter

[PTK]

Wow! 25 pounds is considerable weight! It's a no brainer taking it out!

I had no idea it weighed that much!

Can you please break it down how you arrive at that weight? Just curious.

This was a question I always had and always thought there would be weight savings. I never could get a straight answer though!

[Alan Fox]

25 Lbs is a little on the high side , about 6 lbs for the pump , 3 lbs for the regulator and the lines , about 6 lbs each for the AI and DG still a considerable savings..

[ArtVandelay]

25 Lbs is a little on the high side , about 6 lbs for the pump , 3 lbs for the regulator and the lines , about 6 lbs each for the AI and DG still a considerable savings..

Maybe he has a backup vacuum pump (electric)?

[LANCECASPER]

Maybe he has a backup vacuum pump (electric)?

 

All Bravos had a backup vacuum system.

[gsengle]

As does my Ovation

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[PTK]

So in my J for example, I have approx. 6 lbs ea. for pump and AI, and 3 for regulator and lines. That's 15 lbs.

Electric HSI stays but I also have the precise flight backup vacuum which would be a few pounds, say 4?

Can I figure about 18 lbs? That's a good healthy weight savings!

[Alan Fox]

No the precise flight backup is about a lb.... The one on the Bravo is an electric backup , probably closer to 8 lbs... If you never carry 4 people or don't have extended fuel , I wouldn't do it just for the weight , but if the KI256 goes tits up , it will be a nice benefit when the time comes...

[carusoam]

The backup electric system is mounted next to the Charley weights...

Tossing the extra pump system, you may need to add some weight back.

Dumping a few pounds off the nose would be nice.

Best regards,

-a-