Lithium Batteries for Planes??

[Wakeup]

I was in Batteries Plus today and they pointed out there New Lithium Batteries. The 12V battery prob weighed less then 5lbs. Could this be something used in planes? I'm not saying using batteries from Batteries Plus, I mean using the technology for plane batteries. Just thinking. Troy

[jetdriven]

the 787 uses them but it also has a computer that monitors a lot of stuff and has control over the batteries.  Even with all that they have had a couple meltdowns and smoke filled cabins.

[chrisk]

I was at Don Maxwells two weeks ago.  They have a plane in the back that had the tail cone pulled off.  Apparently a 24 volt charger was applied to a 12 volt battery at some unknown FBO.  --The battery exploded and it was necessary to pull the plane apart in order to inspect and clean it.  I'll try to get a picture when I go back in about a week.

 

On the other hand, I have seen those videos of a Tesla catching fire after a battery puncture.   I think I'll stick with the old standard.

[Hank]

Recharging lithium polymer batteries for RC aircraft caused several houses to burn down before ceramic recharging "bottles" became available (after the fire risk became known). What would happen to your plane if the alternator charge caused the battery to burst into flame?

Some Mooneys would have control problems with their tails. My battery in on the forward side of the firewall . . . I'll keep my Concorde for now, thanks.

[par]

I use some high power LiPo batteries for a large RC place and while I've never had my garage burn down when recharging, I do treat them with a lot of care. Each battery weighs around 2 lbs, puts out 22+volts and is capable of supplying 150amps continuously for several minutes. Overdrawing will kill the battery in a heartbeat. Overcharging and unbalanced cells is where the danger lies. There is a science to it all but seeing how the 787 has had some issues with them, I don't know if my rickety 20C would be able to manage it all. I will take the weight disadvantage for now.

[carusoam]

The long bodies have two batteries in the tail and a stack of lead...

Making the batteries lighter would make my stack of lead larger...

Or...

More TKS fluid and a larger O2 bottle if you are so inclined.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Anthony--

 

Slide the TKS tank back against the batteries? Push the oxygen tank further to the rear? Put the recharging nozzle behind that little round inspection plate under the tail. Anything to shift CG without impacting useful load.

[FloridaMan]

What if your exploding battery damaged the O2 bottle?

[Marauder]

What if your exploding battery damaged the O2 bottle?

It would be one heck of light show...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[triple8s]

Bottle Rocket ????

[Dave Marten]

Don't fear it! Lithium technology is on the way. True Blue is leading the charge for GA. http://www.truebluepowerusa.com/

 

INNOVATION BRINGS SAFE, CERTIFIED, NANOPHOSPHATE® LITHIUM BATTERIES TO NEW BUSINESS AIRCRAFT

October 20, 2014

ORLANDO, Fla. — True Blue Power is the first company in the world to achieve FAA TSO and EASA ETSO certifications for three sophisticated lithium-ion battery products. The TS835 Series Emergency Power Supply received certification in April 2010, followed by the TB17 (17 amp hour) main ship battery in February 2014, and the most recently certified TB44 (44 amp hour) main ship battery.

As the number of True Blue Power’s certified lithium-ion products continues to grow, the incorporation of this advanced technology by airframe manufacturers gains momentum. It offers a key to achieving the ‘more electric aircraft’. True Blue Power is in the process of integrating the TB17 and TB44 on 11 OEM business jet and rotorcraft platforms. The company’s aftermarket STC certification plan includes Beechcraft Bonanza and King Air, Cessna Caravan, Pilatus PC-12, and the Bombardier Dash-8.

[StinkBug]

Dangers aside I've seen firsthand how well lithium batteries are doing in the motorcycle market. And by seen, i mean watched my friends cuss and throw things when their bike still wouldn't start even with special chargers and rubbing it just right and whispering sexy things to it. The technology just isn't matured enough yet.

[cujet]

A friend starts his high compression Lycoming IO540 in his homebuilt, with a 3 pound "Ballistic" brand Li battery. Works perfectly! (but remember, I'm in South Florida, where cold temps never happen)

 

The Ballistic battery has fantastic starting current. But, it does not have the AH capacity to run avionics for a long period of time, so he has a backup battery for his Dynon avionics system. 

 

The 16 cell Ballistic shown below replaced a 25 pound, 24AH sealed lead acid battery. Ok, so far, so good, the Li battery actually cranks the big engine better. Problem is, the Ballistic only has 9 AH total capacity. Or roughly 1/3 the capacity to run avionics in the event of an alternator failure. 

 

To complicate matters, the 24AH lead acid battery is actually under-rated, so that it does not fail capacity checks at the 1 year and 2 year mark. Put another way, the 24AH lead acid battery is actually closer to 30AH on the 20 hour rate test, when new. The Ballistic battery is not "sandbagged" in the same way, so it's 9AH capacity is about right. 

 

An honest comparison would be 3ea, 3.5 pound, 16 cell, Ballistic Li batteries (10.5 pounds total) against a Concorde RG 25XC, 23.5 pound, 24AH sealed lead acid. 

 

I 

 

In the case of a Mooney, a match would require 4ea, 16 cell Li batteries at 14 pounds, vs a Concorde 33AH, 29 pound battery. 

 

As mentioned above, the Li batteries struggle in cold weather. Often decreasing in cranking capacity to near nothing. 

 

In our fleet, we have NiCd aircraft batteries, Lead Acid batteries and my friends Li battery. The best overall performance comes from the NiCd batteries. They have excellent starting capacity, are rugged when properly maintained and can be discharged completely without loss of battery life. The downside is the cost. 

[Dave Marten]

Dangers aside I've seen firsthand how well lithium batteries are doing in the motorcycle market. And by seen, i mean watched my friends cuss and throw things when their bike still wouldn't start even with special chargers and rubbing it just right and whispering sexy things to it. The technology just isn't matured enough yet.

Let's not mix apples and oranges. All Li batteries are NOT created equal. No comparison between a motorcycle battery and what is already (or soon will be) certified for aircraft. I'll bet that by the time the ADS-B mandate kicks in you'll have a certified Li battery option available from your favorite supplier for your Mooney.

 

Besides, doesn't everyone whisper sexy things to their airplane during engine start anyway? With an Li battery you'll just get her turned on and rev'd up that much faster. Maybe the quick excitation factor is what drove True Blue's color choice. Someday soon we'll all be using little blue batteries to help get it started. 

[StinkBug]

I don't doubt that in 5 years there may be some really awesome LI batteries on the market. The technology is moving very quickly. I'm just saying that the ones they have on the market NOW are not something I'd put in my airplane. The weight savings simply isn't worth the hassles.