Do controllers want us to file IFR on good weather days?

[RobertE]

Unless I'm flying through LA airspace I rarely file IFR on good days, but I know lots of others do as a matter of routine and safety.  My reason is I want to diminish work load on ATC, figuring the system wasn't built to provide positive separation to little airplanes in good weather.  But maybe controllers actually want the traffic.  More traffic equals more jobs or hours.

 

So are there any controllers out there who can express an opinion on the topic?

[larryb]

I attended a Wings presentation at my local airport given by a local controller. I'm at KRHV, not all that far from you. The controller stated that they absolutely want us talking to them. If we aren't talking, they don't know what we are going to do, and that causes them trouble. If we aren't talking, they can't even trust the mode C altitude because it hasn't been "confirmed."  On the other hand, at my airport if I file IFR I have to compete with SJC just a few miles away, and takeoffs and landing will be delayed as they create a hole for me in SJC traffic. So personally I always do flight following, but IFR only when I need to.

 

Larry

[carusoam]

They want us to have the experience working in the system...

Everyone is better and safer with more experience.

In busy areas, where you get a long ground hold, you will find there are better ways to handle the system to work with your priorities.

Experienced IFR pilots fit in really well compared to the less experienced guys.

Practice approaches on busy days can be a challenge, you may need to find a different place to go...

This is an opinion of a newish IFR pilot (new for six years), not really what you were asking for...

Best regards,

-a-

[John Pleisse]

They are in the business of clearing their screen. Is it good for us? Absolutely. If you are recently instrument rated, do not mice VFR and IFR practices. Looking outside is extremely distracting when conducting IFR ops. Couple of quick things that might also help. If you are VFR and ask for an approach, that's a pop-up and you are on the hook for full IFR responsibility down to landing. Also, on an instrument flight plan, but under visual conditions, you are tasked with responding to traffic alerts and/or advisories.

 

File on a good day...do it all the time. But make sure your GPS data bases and in cockpit mapping are current, your head is on the guages and you do not skirt any phase of IFR responsiblity. It's black and white.

 

I am not FAA, but my CFI is.

 

EDIT MORE: I recently attended an outreach event at the Potomac Tracon (DC). The one thing they impressed was the need to be specific about VFR requests in as complete fashion as possible. They strongly urged us to ask for everything we can, up front, before they grant it. Be specific about altitude, destination, advisories and where you want to transition. They hate revising strips and it messes up handoffs.

 

To your question again, DC airpace is very complicated at times. I ALWAYS file and my CFII urges me to.

[Seth]

It depends:

 

Controllers do want you talking, but sometimes a flight following, not IFR.  Sometimes, they don't want you talking to them when too busy.  

 

Also, it depends on location and airspace.  In DC area, they actually love it when you cancel on VFR days but stay with them.  It assists their requirments for separation but also know your intentions.

 

I often file both an IFR flight plan when heading home to Maryland and also a VFR SFRA flight plan should I decide to cancel IFR and the controller doesn't understand and drops me - I still need to get into the SFRA.

 

Good example.  Coming back from Asheville, NC a few weeks ago, I was IFR due to weather and clouds on the way but once we got past the systems, VFR prevailed.  My routing after asking for a shortcut (such as directly over Dulles (IAD) or the east side transition (between Dulles and the Washington FRZ), I was given the routing as all the way up to MRB, Martinsburg, WV, before making my right turn and then heading south after crossing around Frederick to get back to Gaithersburg.

 

Instead, I let the controller know that I would be cancelling once I got near Winchester, VA, and then would turn right, decend under the class Bravo, and head to Gaithersburg.  I let them know I had an SFRA flight plan on final and this guy understood.  He said it was uncessary and as soon as I canceled, he'd clear me into the SFRA and keep me on flight following.

 

Another example, I was in California flying to Oregon.  As I approached the Portland airport, I was given a GIANT routing out to the East to then line up with traffic.  The controller then said, "or, if you cancel IFR, you can proceed direct to the field."   I immediately cancelled (VFR conditions).  Within a few minutes I was talking to the tower and landing on the north south runway maybe 5 minutes from the initial "suggestion."  

 

I like filing and flying in the system as it keeps me out of all the airspace issues around the east coast.  If there is ever an issue when it comes to control, I simply cancel.  Sometimes I ask if it would assist for me to cancel if things get busy, but most times the response indicates that it is my decision and they can handle me both IFR or VFR.

 

The only time I was given the suggestion to cancel was in Oregon landing at Portland, and was particularly shocked by it, and truly appreciated it.

 

Take care,

 

-Seth

[ArtVandelay]

On the other hand, what about flying IFR on bad weather days, with practice (low) approaches?

[AndyFromCB]

On the other hand, what about flying IFR on bad weather days, with practice (low) approaches?

 

Depends where you live, I guess. Around here, in Omaha, they are bored out of their minds most of the time. Was doing a few of them into Offutt Airforce Base (you want to talk about a bored tower), and they actually cleared me to land on about my third attempt. I politely reminded them I was a civilian and it probably would not be in my best interest to touch my wheels down there. But they'll let you do all the low passes your heart desires. I don't know how it is in the rest of the country.

[John Pleisse]

Depends where you live, I guess. Around here, in Omaha, they are bored out of their minds most of the time. Was doing a few of them into Offutt Airforce Base (you want to talk about a bored tower), and they actually cleared me to land on about my third attempt. I politely reminded them I was a civilian and it probably would not be in my best interest to touch my wheels down there. But they'll let you do all the low passes your heart desires. I don't know how it is in the rest of the country.

 

 

Can't in DC, Patuxent or Norfolk (however, they'll help you in an emergency)....but I am going to ask at Dover. That's pretty cool.

[DrBill]

I've asked that question to several controllers I know and the answer is always the same... FILE IF YOU CAN.   I file EVERY flight where I'm going someplace that is 50 mi or more. First it is good practice and second I'm getting better and better at understanding their fast talk. On nice days I've even been put to work "training" new controllers.. Did a PAR once into Florence SC.  The rookie did quite well.  The seasoned controller asked me if I would mind doing a training approach with a new controller.. I said "Bring it on!". .

Was a good experience for me as I'd never get a PAR again I'm sure...   (FYI  PAR = PRECISION APPROACH RADAR,  you basically do whatever the controller asks).

Bill

[carusoam]

Go to a MAPA training...

One of their lead trainers works at the FAA Tech center, and has a great Boston accent and flies a Mooney.

Ask the same question there.

If that is not convincing enough... You paid your taxes, done your training, acquired your IR.

Go use it! Properly of course...

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Out here in the west, going IFR can sometimes double the time of a trip. I once flew a Rocket to Flagstaff and flew the airlines back. The trip up was done VFR and took 42 min. The trip back in a big fast turboprop took 1h 15min. and I started 10 mi. south of PHX.

 

When I used to commute to Tucson, the trip would take 28min VFR. The three times in 20 years that I had to go IFR it took almost an hour.

[WardHolbrook]

I'm with the "Always file IFR" crowd. In addition to all of the other reasons given, concerns about restricted airspace and TFRs pretty much go away.  

[Marauder]

Can't in DC, Patuxent or Norfolk (however, they'll help you in an emergency)....but I am going to ask at Dover. That's pretty cool.

 

 

Dover won't let you touch down. Listen to the tapes on the fuel exhaustion accident of the doctor who ran out of fuel. I wish I could have said "Dude LAND", they will sort it out later. Dover has fairly high visibility due to the war dead returning through their facility. Didn't something occur there today as well?

[John Pleisse]

Dover won't let you touch down. Listen to the tapes on the fuel exhaustion accident of the doctor who ran out of fuel. I wish I could have said "Dude LAND", they will sort it out later. Dover has fairly high visibility due to the war dead returning through their facility. Didn't something occur there today as well?

 

But can you even shoot an approach there, Chris? Not sure of any recent Dover issues, but I am not local.

[1964-M20E]

I generally file IFR.  If it is VMC I’ll call and let them know I’m coming then take off VFR and pick up my clearance in the air quicker that way.  I have also canceled early to clear up the airspace and too expedite my route direct instead of being routed all over.

 

I like filing because it keeps me current on ATC speak and working the system.  Just today I was at the airport and went up to shoot 1 ILS approach (it was getting late and dark was coming) with a circle to land back at my home filed conditions 9SM, 12BKN.  Worked out good I picked up a local IFR clearance form the tower which is close enough to contact from my home field.  Oh and they gave me 3 minutes until my void time.  I asked them if thwy were busy and if they could fit  me in.

[Danb]

Dover's pretty good, Anthony you Chris and I live in the same neck of the woods, it seem when Philly isn't chroatchy all is well, have more problems with the Kilg controllers than Philly..Acy is great to work with as is Dover....If Chris is talking about the dude last yr that planted it short of Chandell or one of the other small fields around Dover the whole area was under 200 ovc and left Krdu with no out ...but that's guess not sure which item Chris is referring to..

[201er]

In the parts of the country where you receive "cleared as filed" on a direct thousand nm cross country, I don't think controllers are the least bit bothered if you are VFR or IFR. On the other hand reading a lengthy clearance and sequencing you IFR on a clear day for no reason might be a bit frustrating.

What I learned from flying cross country IFRbis that just cause the weather is clear in one place doesn't mean it is along other parts of the route. For this reason I think ultimately it doesn't matter to controllers if you are IFR in VMC.

[Danb]

Those of us taking the PPP in AC this year you'll be able to practice the PAR approaches..quite interesting as Dr a Bill stated neat stuff..and really accurate.

[Marauder]

But can you even shoot an approach there, Chris? Not sure of any recent Dover issues, but I am not local.

 

Yep, you can shoot approaches there. You just can't land there. They also are the approach controllers for Georgetown and other IFR capable airports in the area. I think they appreciate the activity from us. Can't be very exciting to see the occasional C5 or C117 show up.

[Marauder]

Dover's pretty good, Anthony you Chris and I live in the same neck of the woods, it seem when Philly isn't chroatchy all is well, have more problems with the Kilg controllers than Philly..Acy is great to work with as is Dover....If Chris is talking about the dude last yr that planted it short of Chandell or one of the other small fields around Dover the whole area was under 200 ovc and left Krdu with no out ...but that's guess not sure which item Chris is referring to..

 

Yeah, I'm talking about the doctor who flew up from Georgia and shot approaches at Salisbury, Summit and eventually ran out of gas. Unfortunately he could have landed at Dover: http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20130114X61927&key=1&queryId=501b0e3f-2360-480d-9cd9-93dd3db2ae1a&pgno=1&pgsize=50

 

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N4975S

[carusoam]

How close to the ground would you get before going missed?

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

How close to the ground would you get before going missed?

Best regards,

-a-

 

If you are talking about the doctor's accident? I would fly that sucker to the ground if I went to Dover. Much better to crash land at a military airport that knows you are coming in than crashing on the side of Route 1 in the fog. If you are talking about practice approaches, I have been told that as long as your wheels don't make contact with the runway, you were never there...

[carusoam]

I meant you Chris...

The Dr. made a few mistakes including the last one...

Thank you, that sounds vaguely familiar.

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

If controllers are too busy on VFR days, I would be worried about their workload on IFR days.

[Hank]

If you are talking about the doctor's accident? I would fly that sucker to the ground if I went to Dover. Much better to crash land at a military airport that knows you are coming in than crashing on the side of Route 1 in the fog. If you are talking about practice approaches, I have been told that as long as your wheels don't make contact with the runway, you were never there...

 

I've made practice approaches, including a PAR, at Lawson Field below Ft. Benning. They were helpful, happy and when my CFII requested a low approach, they responded, "go as low as you want, just don't let the wheels touch." Been there during the day and at night.