What's new in engine monitors (JPI vs EI vs Insight)P?

[FloridaMan]

It looks like it's time that I upgrade to something better than my 50 year old instruments. I was surprised to see how inexpensive full STC replacement engine instruments have become with JPI and Electronics International both offering monitors that replace all instruments in the $3500 range with the EDM 900 Primary and the Electronics International CGR-30P. The Insight 4G also appears to offer a number of additional features, such as vibration monitoring, but is only TSO'd to replace factory EGT/CHT instruments. 

 

The EI user interface looks to be the most attractive of the three. The Insight feature list, with EGT graphs for noting cyclical high EGTs, seems to be more comprehensive and possibly more useful, but the reviews of the Insight GEM claim that the instrument doesn't work as well as advertised (one has to wonder, given JPI's reputation for slamming the competition, if the reviews are genuine). The word on the street is that JPI has the best and most reliable probes. 

 

Here's what I gather from marketing materials and reviews on each. All are in the same price range:

 

JPI:

Pros: Reputable for product quality and probe reliability. TSO replacement for all engine instruments

Cons: Also reputable for aggressive marketing, so I take the pros with a grain of salt. Smallest feature list of the engine monitors

 

EI:

Pros: Most attractive user interface, feature list, TSO replacement for all engine instruments. 

Cons: Unknown reliability. 

 

Insight:

Pros: Strongest feature list, with vibration monitoring and the ability to see graphs of historical EGTs, et cetera. 

Cons: User interface looks like it was designed by a programmer. Reviews on aircraft spruce claim reliability issues (I have to take this with caution, given the claims that JPI's competition makes about JPI being unscrupulous about commenting on the quality of others' products)

[orionflt]

You listed unknown reliability as a con for EI, while I agree it hasn't been on the market long enough to accurately rate the reliability of the CGR -30, the rest of EI's products have shown extreme reliability and customer support has never been an issue. I'm not bashing any of the other manufacturers, they all have good products I have used a bunch of them and evaluated them all before installing the MVP-50 in my plane.

Brian

[FloridaMan]

I am leaning (no pun intended) towards the EI instrument. Another thing is that, in spite of one of my professional roles being a data architect, I do not like having to read numbers that change frequently. Interpreting numeric values is fatiguing when they change frequently; I prefer things to be stable like a clock face as opposed to a numeric RPM that is constantly changing. 

[rbridges]

I'm really impressed with the new engine monitors, too.  I'd love to get one that's primary for everything, including fuel.

 

As Brian mentioned, EI has great customer support.  I have an older UBG-16, and I had a very good experience having it repaired.

[teethdoc]

Before I decided to put mine up for sale, I was looking strongly at the EI. I liked the price and the small size not taking up a ton of valuable space.

[Amelia]

I had an EI UBG-16 engine monitor for several years, chose it because the sales people were so helpful and nice, and it was nothing but trouble. I still have it, yellow-tagged, 6 cylinder plus TIT gauge and wiring harness, let me know if anybody wants it... cheap, but you'll have to buy your own probes.Over the time I had it, it cost me a ton of money, mostly to repair the thin wires, repeatedly. Apparently my 231's vibrations were more than the very lightweight wiring harness could put up with. I had a number of experts tell me EI's contention that it was poorly wired in the first place, thus not their fault, was in fact, not the case.

 

I now have a JPI 730, very intuitive to use, wiring so far seems fine, but it recently started acting up, reporting nonsense. I sent the gauge back, and a JPI tech support person called me when it arrived, said, "You AREN'T crazy... it needed work, new software. We did it, no charge, and will send it back 2-day shipping." I expect it back today. But that was the first problem in years I've had with it. So, I think I'm very happy with their service.

[Marauder]

My original engine analyzer was an Insight GEM. Rock solid for the 20 years it was in the plane. I only removed it because I wanted something that did data recording. I was going towards the G4 when you guys convinced me JPI was the way to go. The JPI has been fine. My only gripe is that it has a large form factor and I would have rather have something that fit in a 3" hole. You can't beat the display though. I also have EI equipment in the plane. My EI fuel totalizer has been installed for 20 years and until this past year was flawless. The fuel transducer finally failed. I was so impressed with the EI stuff, I did away with my MP and Tachs and went with EI primaries. From this: To this: If the CGR was out when I went with the JPI, I would have gone that route. You can lose a number of your primary instruments with it.

[FlyWalt]

Interesting to see the word "Inexpensive" associated with $3500 dollars.

[DAVIDWH]

$$$, all relative...

 

Not as bad as comparing a M20J with the neurosurgeons Acclaim.

 

Or as the great philosopher once said: "Tires, batteries and women, you get what you pay for."

[FloridaMan]

Compared to the $8,000+ price tags I remember just two years ago, competition has brought the prices down. It's still too much money for what they are. I'm pretty sure I could build a one-off for less than that if I didn't pay myself.

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[rbridges]

My original engine analyzer was an Insight GEM. Rock solid for the 20 years it was in the plane. I only removed it because I wanted something that did data recording. I was going towards the G4 when you guys convinced me JPI was the way to go. The JPI has been fine. My only gripe is that it has a large form factor and I would have rather have something that fit in a 3" hole. You can't beat the display though. I also have EI equipment in the plane. My EI fuel totalizer has been installed for 20 years and until this past year was flawless. The fuel transducer finally failed. I was so impressed with the EI stuff, I did away with my MP and Tachs and went with EI primaries. From this: To this: If the CGR was out when I went with the JPI, I would have gone that route. You can lose a number of your primary instruments with it.

 

I've got the same gauges on the right side of my panel, too.  That's about where our panel similarities end.  

[N601RX]

Compared to the $8,000+ price tags I remember just two years ago, competition has brought the prices down. It's still too much money for what they are. I'm pretty sure I could build a one-off for less than that if I didn't pay myself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Check on the price of the install, its likely to be as much or more than the monitor. If your looking to save, find a mechanic who will let you do the work under his supervision.

[KSMooniac]

If anyone is considering EI, make sure to get the fast-response probes...apparently they still sell the slow response probes for some reason.  They are nearly useless for precision leaning and troubleshooting.

[adrian]

I put a JPI930 in my Mooney.  It was a restoration project, and most of the engine instruments were dead as were the fuel gauges.  It was easy to install, and has been almost faultless.  The only problem I have had is a flight with corrupt data, which caused me problems when trying to download to a USB memory stick.  Calibrating the fuel flow took a bit of fiddling, but now works well.  The OAT is generally warmer than the temperature displayed on my Aspen PFD, but I think that is probably due to the positioning of the probe.  It was a problem the first time I picked up ice in what I thought were non-icing conditions - but I have learnt to just look at the Aspen instead.

 

I am also fortunate enough to own a Super Decathlon.  I put an EI CGR-30P into that earlier this year.  The display is pretty small, and some of the small warnings can be hard to read.  For example, there is a very clever warning that lights up if it detects a problem with either magneto - but it is tiny; having said that, at least it is there - the JPI can't do it.  I find the controls a bit more fiddly than the JPI, especially when adding a few gallons of fuel.  I haven't tried using it at night, and haven't tried finding LOP with it - I would need better injectors to be able to run the Decathlon's engine lean.

 

If I was choosing again for the Mooney, I would choose the JPI930 again, because of the primary fuel quantity display.

 

 

JPI:

Pros: Reputable for product quality and probe reliability. TSO replacement for all engine instruments

Cons: Also reputable for aggressive marketing, so I take the pros with a grain of salt. Smallest feature list of the engine monitors

 

EI:

Pros: Most attractive user interface, feature list, TSO replacement for all engine instruments. 

Cons: Unknown reliability. 

 

[M20F-1968]

Without going into specifics, I have had the experience of horrible customer service from Electronics International, to the degree of my questioning how they could ever keep a customer.  This problem resulted from a small issue this their management made 100 times worse.  I have asked around abit and found several avionics professionals who would rather not use their products for similar reasons.  I have to post such a negative commentary, but in this case it is truly warranted.  I also hear (admittedly third hand) that EI had posted some derogatory comments on their web sire about JPI.  In my mind, if I had any choice of purchasing JPI instead of EI equipment, I would do so in a heartbeat every time.  I find no reason to do business with a company who acts as I have witnessed EI to act.

[MooneyPTG]

I am in the process of installing a G1. It will tell me EGT and CHT in all cylinders and give me a colored graph as well as a numerical value. For the $950 it will give me enough info to tell me how my engine is performing in flight as well as record it on a flash drive. My A P so far says it is an easy install. I will report back once it is installed and tested. I am a mooney owner on a budget:)

[M20F]

Have an EI MVP-50 in mine and couldn't be happier, no experience with JPI but after reading dozens of reviews and forum posts throug the internet decided EI was the better of the two (opinion nothing else).

[MooneyPTG]

I am very happy with the G1 I installed. It was about $1200...install included.

http://www.insightavionics.com/g1.htm

[Bill Dunn]

JPI is def most reliable

EI is very proprietary in that the tech can't even adjust anything... If you order something wrong it takes weeks/manufacturer to fix.

Insight has always had reliability issues. Their older units have no board support so eventually the main board fails...

That being said I really believe that engine monitors are really personal preference since there are a bunch of really good units out there

[M20F]

EI is very proprietary in that the tech can't even adjust anything... If you order something wrong it takes weeks/manufacturer to fix.

When I got mine they gave the installer (EI dealer) a one use code to reset anything that was off, we didn't have any issues to where we needed it. You can adjust a fair amount of stuff with the generic set up code.

[gsxrpilot]

I had the Insight G2 installed a few months ago.  I'm very happy with it.

[TWinter]

JPI 830 has been good for me. I will say I had a two bad probes in less than 100 hrs with the unit. First was CHT probe and a few months later was oil temp probe. I spoke with JPI at Osh and they said the CHT issue might be a probe or bad electrical connection. I did not have the oil probe issue until after Osh. During annual a few weeks ago JPI required the my mechanic to download data and send via email before they would do anything since it was rare a probe go bad with just 100 hrs, they really doubted it possible that two would go bad. Apparently, having the oil probe go bad is pretty unheard of...Well, data was sent and they agreed that it had to be bad probes on CHT and oil. JPI sent two new ones and both were replaced at annual and it's been about 10 hrs since replaced and all is okay.   

[Bob_Belville]

I did not see this thread until tonight. I have had a EDM 930 for almost 2 years. The large display seems to me to be a plus vs. the EI. I have mine mounted on the right side and it is not problem seeing everything and using lean find etc. 

 

Like, "Amelia", I had occasion to send my unit back to the factory (CA) chasing a fluctuating fuel pressure. There was nothing wrong with the unit or the transducer and JPI updated the firmware and shipped it back on their nickle. Their customer service was excellent. I must have had 25 contacts by email and a few calls. There was always someone there and messages were answered very quickly. 

[carusoam]

Wonder what the factory is thinking when a MooneySpace pilot calls, with a ream of data to support the challenge?

An educated consumer is probably their best customer!

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

Early on I had an issue with the MP indication fluctuating. JPI provided a "snubber" in the line to dampen the pressure @ the transducer. They said it was unusual but sometimes necessary. Again, good service, they diagnosed problem from the data.