How high can you take a M20C?

[yvesg]

or when you run out if fuel over the Atlantic like that Canadian passenger plane that glided and landed on the Azores islands several years ago.

Capitaine Piché. He was not so much a glider pilot... he got his experience doing drug flights years before. There is a movie about it... but I think it is only in French. Let me check.

Yves

[WardHolbrook]

Capitaine Piché. He was not so much a glider pilot... he got his experience doing drug flights years before. There is a movie about it... but I think it is only in French. Let me check.

Yves

Ah yes, dear old Cap'n Piche. He and his crew totally screwed up and nearly lost their Airbus and everyone on board after running it out of fuel out over the Atlantic. But wait there's more... They then gained rave reviews for saving the day by deadsticking it in the Azores. Reminiscent of that famous quote by a local sheriff that responded to an aircraft accident: "The good Lord was with that man. If he had not run out of gas, the plane might have caught on fire when it crashed." ~ Monroe County Sheriff Cecil Cantrell

 

What's the old saying...

 

A superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid having to demonstrate his superior skills.

 

All that being said, if I were King of the World I would require every fixed-wing power pilot to have glider, tailwheel and aerobatic experience. The glider time will give you confidence and skill for that time when your engine decides it's had enough and teach you things about how aircraft performance and how they fly that aren't taught by your typical CFI in his trusty C-172. The tailwheel training will teach you what your feet are for. And that basic aerobatic training will come in handy when some yoyo controller accidentally cuts you in a little too close behind that B757 ahead of you on approach or when you get distracted and get just a little too slow in the traffic pattern. 

[gsxrpilot]

I did a longish leg on the return from Oshkosh at 13.5. I thought the C ran well and still had some climb in it.  I don't have O2 but have done quite a bit of high altitude mountain climbing and am very aware of the effects.  I was regularly checking for signs of hypoxia.  I actually had a fairly long and detailed conversation with flight watch towards the end of the time at altitude and was still quite sharp discussing weather at specific points along my route.

 

That was my first time having the C so high.  I am therefore actively shopping for an O2 system so that I can make use of this high altitude capability on a regular basis.

[Guest]

How's that even possible?

Here is the link to the story: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/high.html

Clarence

[BigTex]

Here is the link to the story: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/high.html

Clarence

Thanks Clarence. His plane was fuel injected so that provide some edge.

[Guest]

Fuel injection would not offer any advantage over a carburetor, a turbo on the other hand!

Clarence

[AmigOne]

Coming back eastbound at 11,500' to make use of a good tailwind I was checking my O2 level and the reading was 84%.  I guess it must be good because I was at this altitude for more than two hours without any ill effects.   However I could see that my pulse rate, normally in the 60's and lower sometimes, was working really hard.

[ArtVandelay]

Below 90 is considered marginal, below 80 can cause serious effects, remember one of the symptoms is you may not think clearly, so you won't notice its affecting you

[cliffy]

MSL altitude is really meaningless. You gotta look at Density Altitude both for airplane performance and human performance. It can be more than 2000 feet higher than MSL altitude. I go to 12,500 quite often but out here in the west it means a DA of 13.5 or more in the summer. I have done the Alt Chamber thingy and I know how my body reacts to altitude. I don't go above 12,500 with out O2. I know I can't do 13.0 without it. 500 feet makes a big difference with me regardless of the DA. 

My C model does fine at 12.5 once I get to 13 it all pays off out here in the west with the summer time up and down drafts. 13.5 would be usable if it wasn't for the down drafts out here in the west. 

[larryb]

I've had my J to 17.5K just to check it out. Climb was slow. The other day I had an Ifr clearance at 14K and didn't think twice about it. I use O2 above 10K.

[Seanhoya]

Fuel injection would not offer any advantage over a carburetor, a turbo on the other hand!

Clarence

What you get out of fuel injection that we don't get with carbuerated engines is precision, and often also an engine monitor.  I have a standard Mooney mixture control, which is not a vernier control like a Cessna.  So I lean by pulling the mixture control until I feel engine roughness, and then backing off about an inch.  This is a far cry from the level of precision you get out of a fuel injected engine with an engine monitor/analyzer. 

[Guest]

The point is that fuel injection on the RV6 is not what got him to 26000' a carburetor would have done just as well.

Clarence

[BigTex]

The point is that fuel injection on the RV6 is not what got him to 26000' a carburetor would have done just as well.

Clarence

Not sure that is true. Fuel injected engines provide a better distribution of fuel thus maximizing what atmosphere is available and in theory would be able to fly higher.

[Guest]

At 2700 RPM as Terry says in his story I doubt there would be any measurable difference in the record altitude he was able to attain with fuel injection versus a carburetor.

Clarence

[aaronk25]

I have a j and not a C but when we crossed the gulf we did so at 19,000ft. We also did this with the two of us a plane loading with girly wedding gear and full tanks. Was doing about 100fpm when leveled out.

The awesome thing is the plane still cruised 145-148kts but did it on 6.8gph.

Love the efficiency.

[ryoder]

My Mooney, like Slick Willy doesn't inhale...

[Wakeup]

I found a SKy OX cylinder with cannulas for $200.00. Should I buy and have it just in case?? Thanks. Troy

[Hank]

My C runs just fine at 10,000 but the climb is not fast above that. Enroute climb to 11,000 works, but not at 500 fpm. To get much more, it helps to periodically level off and accelerate, then convert speed to ~400-500 feet of altitude.

[orionflt]

I usually fly my C between 7.5 and 9.5 but recently I have been using 10.5 due to weather. I get a good climb rate until around 8.5 from there I usually see 300 fpm @120mph climb cruise. My flight controls are still very responsive but are defiantly softer then at lower altitudes.

Brian

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ryoder]

I have a j and not a C but when we crossed the gulf we did so at 19,000ft. We also did this with the two of us a plane loading with girly wedding gear and full tanks. Was doing about 100fpm when leveled out.The awesome thing is the plane still cruised 145-148kts but did it on 6.8gph. Love the efficiency.

Holy crap how did you get that speed and efficiency combo? Can you find the specs in the poh fuel perf charts? Was this with the j?

[aaronk25]

Holy crap how did you get that speed and efficiency combo? Can you find the specs in the poh fuel perf charts? Was this with the j?

Yes it was in a J not a C so it wasn't apples to apples and I don't have the poh nearby today but I was using 2700rpm and about 30-40rop.

High altitude is very efficient but remember it takes time to get there but once there it's cheaper to push a plane though less dense air molecules. I have a welding 02 tank so refilling my portable 24cu ft bottle costs about $1.00. So o2 is pretty insignificant I'm cost.

[Z W]

Remember the C model has a 180 HP carb'd engine.  The E, F, and J all have 200 HP fuel injected engines.

 

I don't know if carb vs. fuel injection makes a big difference, or if 20 extra HP makes a big difference.  It's probably a combination of the two.  But I do know that over 12,000 ft the climb performance in my C model was not great.  I've heard repeatedly on this site that the other models do much better in the mountains and in the teens.

[Immelman]

Took my NA E model to FL210... low weight, cool atmosphere. I am confident it had 23, maybe 25 in it, but with a single portable O2 system I felt going higher was not advisable. That was just a "see if I can do it" kind of thing. 17K over the rockies, solo weight full fuel, in the heat of summer = no problem. Always on o2 above 10,000.

[BJM61]

We have taken our 1961 M20B, with full fuel, and 2 large adults to 17,500 ft. several times, but 17.5  is usually max. And of course always with O2.

[drbob]

M20C: around FL 21: depends on pressure temp etc.

      Need O2, best to have GEM for agressive leaning & Vernier mixture control, AP to help wings level.

IIRC OAT -40, MP +- 16"  IAS around 85-90.

      Not reccomending this- just saying.

 In coffin corner, so  controls lethargic, stability iffy.

                                                                                                          drb