Starting a new ownership with a flat spot

[Houman]

Well, I guess it shows that I have only 150h of C172 and Beech Sundowner before juming into a Rocket.

 

Here is my today's handy work, I have now about 14 h on the Mooney, ouch, it will cost me :(

[bonal]

Not sure what the story is perhaps ran out of runway but if all you did was flat spot a tire think how much worse it could have been. Big jump in performance for sure.

[John Pleisse]

Easy to do...don't fret. Half flaps, lower a/s and flap retraction (careful) on roll out all help. You'll get the hang of it.

[FlyWalt]

The tire did its job. So retire it and buy a new set. You will be safer with fresh rubber protecting your aircraft and your life.

[aaronk25]

Don't feel bad I the first thing I did after getting my 10 hours of dual for insurance purposes is land on a 2500' strip that I think was asphalt (the kind where you would want to fall on) that was super abrasive, more than others ....anyway got on brakes because I was to fast and flat spotted a new tire. Errr....it's a rookie mistake. Don't sweat it. We've all been there, or at least some of us.

[Guest]

As others have said it happens often, youre not the first and won't be the last. You're lucky it was a good tire, lesser ones and you would jacking it up to repair a flat tire on the runway.

Clarence

[Houman]

yep, I only noticed it once pushing the plane into the hanger, it is still inflated, but obviously needs to change it before I can fly it again

Thanks for the words of encouragment, I have done about 30 landings with the mooney, so i think it is more than just this one last landing..

My home field runway is just under 3000 feets, so sometimes if I'm not on the speed, I need to brake a bit harder...

[co2bruce]

Hahahaha. I have 100's of Mooney Hours and welcome to the club. Mooney brakes have 2 settings off and locked up. Don't be on a hurry to stop, let her roll out. I've got some of those same tires.

[chrisk]

Maybe the Rocket is heavier but for my 231, approach speed makes all the difference.   At the right speed (stall warning going off) and full flaps, I could probably stop in 2000 ft with out breaks.  Add another 15 knots, and it takes a lot more to stop.

 

You might want to look at Dresser for tires.  I ended up getting an Airhawk to replace a worn tire.   And remember you should probably get a new tube too. 

[MARZ]

Turn off the noise cancelling - better to hear the squeal! 

[FlyDave]

I did the same thing in my J about a month after getting it. I was landing at North Las Vegas and, for some reason that escaped me then and now, pushed on the left brake too hard. The tower called me and said "Hey 60N, you're plane is smoking. Is everything OK?". "Yeah" I said like a dog licking his wound after being kicked.

Not to bring up another contentious thread but, do you think this would have happened if you had dumped the flaps? (Hey now - somebody had to bring it up....)

[omega708]

Make sure you're not on the brakes at landing.  I know in my "C" model, the rudder pedals are pretty low and it's easy to be on the brakes when you don't mean to be.  I added a "T" to the end of my GUMPS for "toes" on the rudder pedals... 

[OR75]

got that on both tires or just one locked ?

 

Not sure if you intend to do it by yourself but changing a tire is allowed by the regs and fairly simple if you have a jack.

 

May be a good opportunity to buy jacks if you don't have a set.

[carusoam]

ABS doesn't exist for Mooneys?

If the brake locks, you will have to let up and then reapply...

If you are running out of runway, they may lock up again...

Once the brake locks up a second time, any switch you touch will be the wrong one... (Flaps vs. Gear)

What's the rule of thumb(s)

-Know you are landing into the wind

-Control you air speed

-Pull throttle all the way out

-Touch down before the halfway point?

-Pull back on the elevator

If you don't know...Go arounds are nearly free...

As unusual, I am not a flight instructor, but I've been a new pilot more than once...

-a-

[Houman]

I did the same thing in my J about a month after getting it. I was landing at North Las Vegas and, for some reason that escaped me then and now, pushed on the left brake too hard. The tower called me and said "Hey 60N, you're plane is smoking. Is everything OK?". "Yeah" I said like a dog licking his would after being kicked.

Not to bring up another contentious thread but, do you think this would have happened if you had dumped the flaps? (Hey now - somebody had to bring it up....)

Well, I was just asking why we are not raising the flaps, I'm actually following the POH and NOT raising the flaps before exiting the active runway.

[Houman]

Hahahaha. I have 100's of Mooney Hours and welcome to the club. Mooney brakes have 2 settings off and locked up. Don't be on a hurry to stop, let her roll out. I've got some of those same tires.

I have noticed that, it is a bit too easy to lock the wheels, much easier than the previous planes I have flown...

[FlyDave]

I have noticed that, it is a bit too easy to lock the wheels, much easier than the previous planes I have flown...

If I were you I'd spend some time taxing the airplane around the airport (or a couple of different airports) to get practice and a feel for the brakes. You can even do a high speed taxi down the runway (request from tower if controlled) to get a better feel for things.

If they are too touchy then there may be an adjustment for that, but I'm not aware of what that adjustment is.

I'm not sure if the K has a vernier throttle but the vernier throttle on my Bravo has to be twisted to fully close the throttle. Until I realized this I was carrying power into the flare and taxi.

[Danb]

When I bought my 1st Mooney on my 1st landing during transitioning training I also bought a tire...got me respect in a hurry

[Hank]

My home field for seven years [until this summer] is 3001' long. Find the correct speed [V = 1.3Vso] and hold it exactly on final, then pull the throttle to idle when you can glide to the runway. For me, that's 85 mph on final, slowing to 75 as I approach the numbers. She will land nose high when the stall horn goes off. Reduce speed by 5 mph for every 300 lbs you are below gross weight.

 

If I did it right, this will a right seat video landing there, shot using a handheld Sony digital camera in video mode.

 

https://vimeo.com/103204671

 

Sorry there's only engine noise, and I reduced power a little too much over the driving range and had to add a little back in to clear the trees [to hold 140 agl].

[carusoam]

Mooney brakes are similar to firebird brakes, the ones on the back axle...

If you try to stop hard (by pulling the E-brake handle), they lock up...

Consider adding a brake system for the front wheel...?

Somebody at the factory must have thought stopping really short is optional.

Best regard,

-a-

[David Mazer]

I can tell you from experience this happens to me all too often on a Rocket (and I don't recall ever on any other plane).  I keep a spare tire in the hangar.  All it takes is the slightest extra pressure when the plane is still light, one tiny, short squeak, and the tire is gone.  What I have learned is to brake later in the roll out rather than early.  Sometimes it takes more brake pressure but I've never damaged a tire once I'm fully down and slowed some and many tires if I brake shortly after touchdown.

[Hank]

I generally wait to under 50 mph before braking. Never had a problem. Moving my feet to the brakes before then makes the plane dance a little while she's settling down and giving up lift. Another reason to reach out the pinkie and raise flaps.

[gsxrpilot]

Flaps before brakes saves a lot of tires... as does slower approach speed.

[rbridges]

I think the Fred Flintstone brake STC recently got approved for the M20 airframe.  This should help you guys by taking some of the stress off the tires.

 

[chrisk]

My brakes aren't overly effective like some of yours apparently are, and I rarely use them. I put new pads, stainless steel discs, and Goodyear FC IIIs on her when I bought her in 2006 and none of them show any appreciable wear yet. I had no idea that flat spotting tires was such a common issue.

Land with the stall warning horn going off and your feet on the bottom of the pedals and don't try to make the first turnoff you see. Let her roll out on her own if able. That's about the best advice that I can give you.

Jim

Hi Jim,

My breaks are not overly effective either.  I also have stainless steel discs.  Makes me wonder if there is a relationship.....

Chris