Malaysia Airlines

[Oscar Avalle]

Incredible what happen in the Ukraine. A civil airplane shot down... It is also tragic that it is another Malaysia Airlines plane...

 

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

 

Oscar

 

http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17?hpt=hp_t1

[201er]

It's not the first passenger plane the Russians have shot down.

[Marauder]

It's not the first passenger plane the Russians have shot down.

And were not immune either...

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[chrisk]

And were not immune either...

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Is this a reference to TWA 800 and the exploding fuel tank?  Or the Iranian jet downed in the late 80s

[chrisk]

Its not the first time for the Ukrainians either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

[Piloto]

I am surprised how quickly they concluded that it was shot down without examining the wreck first. What is Russia to gain by shooting down a civilian aircraft? All B777 carry Mode S transponders that clearly identifies it as Malaysian plane. It looks to me that this was an internal explosion either by hazardous material cargo or an onboard bomb. The Ukrainian government is claiming it was a Russian missile to bring more animosity toward Russia. Only close examination of the wreckage will tell the truth. In a sudden event like this the black boxes wouldn't tell you much because the remote sensors are  destroyed in the mid air explosion. There is also the possibility of a mid air collision with a military aircraft or a UAV in the area. Or a wacko Malaysian Airlines employee that sabotaged two planes. We have some of those here in the US. 

 

José

[fantom]

....What is Russia to gain by shooting down a civilian aircraft? There is also the possibility of a mid air collision.....

José

The mid air collision was with a missile fired by a Russian Buk launcher. Some poorly trained soldier screwed up big time, separatist or Russian.

[chrisk]

Both Russia and Ukraine have the Buk Missile system, and probably some splinter groups too.  It's probably a little early to know with certainty which group launched.  

 

And I have to agree with Jose, I don't see where Russia has anything to gain.  So, I'll go out on a limb and suggest it wasn't Russia (unless some one screwed up in a big way.) 

 

As for a transponder's ID being used as a method to identify a friendly aircraft.     It only works if you can trust the guy who programmed the transponder......   and you enemy would never cheat this way!

[Guest]

I think it was a mid air with MH 370.

[jetdriven]

Its not the first time for the Ukrainians either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

or the United States...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Marauder]

Is this a reference to TWA 800 and the exploding fuel tank? Or the Iranian jet downed in the late 80s

The Iranian passenger jet.

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[N33GG]

Clearly they were carrying lithium batteries.

[Piloto]

Maybe a runaway missile from Gaza? That's next on the news.

[aviatoreb]

Jose' - aren't you the guy who was all conspiracy theories for the last lost Malaysian airliner?  Now you are Mr moderation and wait and see.

 

Well, I will take up the conspiracy theory then.

 

Everyone says the Russians didn't do it because they have nothing to gain.  I am not so sure.  Mr Putan could have sent a fake separatist militia contingent of Russian special ops soldiers into Ukraine with the equipment to bring down an airliner and orders to do so.  Why?  So that he could then say that the situation in the entirety of the Ukraine is out of hand and to therefore as pretense to make a fake excuse to invade the rest of the Ukraine with a large contingent of his armies.

 

Didn't he use fake separatists to rabble-rouse as part of his excuse to invade Cremia?  Seemed to work there since no one in the West did anything but complain.

 

So my money is on Putan did it.  As opening volley of an invasion.

[N33GG]

Perhaps that 777 was running LOP!

[Piloto]

Mooney aircraft should take advantage of this for marketing: "Don't risk your life on a B777 get a Mooney. Your money back if you get hit by a missile or hijacked". Woow!!! that will sell big in Malaysia.

 

José

[carusoam]

Ospreys are flying around Manhattan...

Increased security on the Hudson.

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

The forces of darkness are winning I fear.

[PTK]

As I see it the responsibility for this tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of the Ukrainian government.

They are reckless and irresponsible to allow civilian flights over a war zone with such callous disregard for innocent human life!

Is there a good reason the government in Kiev has not declared their airspace a Prohibited Area?

Did any of these finger pointers who suddenly popped out of the woodwork have the presence of mind to do so before this tragedy occurred?

They need to do it now before another such tragedy occurs.

[Guest]

According to news reports I've seen yesterday, Air Canada and many American air carriers were already avoiding over flights of the area. It's the airlines fault for choosing the route, they are free to file a different route, no one else's.

Clarence

[Hank]

Airspace doesn't need to be Prohibited for a sensible person to know that it's risky and avoid it. Is it Ukraine's fault that some airlines are worried more about fuel cost than safety? After all, they have insurance in the event of a problem; but did they read the normal exclusions that have always included acts of war and now also include acts of terrorism? Fuel costs have no insurance, and I'm afraid this shoot down will also not be covered.

[Piloto]

I hear on the news about these missile detectors for fighter planes. I have some questions for a fighter pilot on this forum.

 

1. How the hell you know if your missile detector is working? I do not think the Russians use the same radar frequencies for the missiles they sell on the market. And I don't think missile radar specs. are published.

 

2. How the detector differentiates a missile radar burst from a burst on the ground? A burst from the ground can force the pilot to eject thus achieving the same objective as a real missile of knocking down the plane.

 

José

[carusoam]

Are we mixing in TFRs???

That would be a good use for a TFR.

- Disney World

- Giant Stadium on Super Bowl Sunday

- Ukraine

Who at Maylasia decides the actual route?

- pilot

- accountant

- plane purchasing agent

Tragic results,

-a-

[AndyFromCB]

As I see it the responsibility for this tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of the Ukrainian government.

They are reckless and irresponsible to allow civilian flights over a war zone with such callous disregard for innocent human life!

Is there a good reason the government in Kiev has not declared their airspace a Prohibited Area?

Did any of these finger pointers who suddenly popped out of the woodwork have the presence of mind to do so before this tragedy occurred?

They need to do it now before another such tragedy occurs.

 

Well, I think we can point some fingers at the Ruskies too. It's not like one can just go to Walmart and pick up a ground to air missile. They have been supplying heavy weaponry to a bunch of jackasses. One can only hope it backfires on them eventually...

[PTK]

Airspace doesn't need to be Prohibited for a sensible person to know that it's risky and avoid it. Is it Ukraine's fault that some airlines are worried more about fuel cost than safety? After all, they have insurance in the event of a problem; but did they read the normal exclusions that have always included acts of war and now also include acts of terrorism? Fuel costs have no insurance, and I'm afraid this shoot down will also not be covered.

Does a "sensible" government know their country, whatever they got left, is a war zone?

If "yes" then they need to take "sensible" precautions, such as no fly zone and prohibited airspace, to protect civilians. If "no" the results are exactly what happened.

Yes, it is the Ukrainian government to blame on this one. No one else.

It doesn't matter what we or the Europeans or Russia is doing. The immediate responsibility for protecting civilian flights and the blame when this happens, rests in Kiev.