New or Used Radio

[usafhaynes1]

I recently purchased a 1966 M20C which has some...dated...avionics.  An ADF I need removed, apollo 2001 NMS (the one that no longer receives sat signal!) and a KX-155 that apparently has a bad nav board since it will not ident morse code, nor send info to the KI-209.

 

I saw a Narco package deal with dual everything which would provide some redundancy but Narco is gone and if the unit goes bad...well...money lost.

 

I'm not sure how much it would cost to repair the KX-155 and if it would even be worth it since parts availability is sparse.

 

Right now, I'm looking at getting a GNC-255.  A new radio for $3800'ish that will push nav info to the KI-209 per the website and give years of faithful service (hopefully?).  The question is how much does it cost to have a radio installed these days?  I just put $35k cash into the plane so my savings are depleted.  I need a radio replacement asap instead of 6 months down the road.

 

I'm looking for thoughts on going new versus used.  I'm guessing that the install cost would be the same for either?

[Hank]

Talk to you avionics guy and see what radios are compatible with your tray, so all you would need to do is slide the old one out and the replacement in. This will get you flying while your savings recovers to put in whatever radio(s) you decide you really want.

[triple8s]

If it were me, I would spend to fix the 155 if it weren't a huge amount and if it were much I'd buy a used 155 and slide it in. Then, I'd save for a used was 430 install, this will give u a GPS approach which is very handy. There are tons out there. Take your time and save. You have my admiration paying cash that's rare these days.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I go along with the recent posts -- I'd suggest you get the KX 155 + KI 209 working so at least you have one good com radio and VOR / ILS.

 

There are lots of KX 155 available, you should be able to get a good used one with a limited warranty.  Or send yours out for repair; there are many shops that work on those radios still. 

 

Carry a good portable GPS for "reference use" now and save your money for an upgrade in the future. 

 

 

 

[Piloto]

The Bendix/King radios are the most comonly repaired by avionics shops so I don't think you would have any problem having them fix. I would rather have it fix than buying another radio that will do the same function.

 

José

[Rhumbline]

Ditto.  I'd have your radio reconditioned or shop around for a good exchange on a reconditioned unit.
 

[Mooneymite]

If you just want a nav/comm, you can get a working KX 170B really cheap. Old technology, yes, but they work well and last a long time. These radios are being removed for up-dated avionics and are stacking up on the shop shelves. Check around.

Of course the real question is do you really want to invest in old avionics?

[DaV8or]

I agree with everybody above. With your money situation, I'd either fix the KX-155, or replace it with another used one. They're good radios. If you keep hanging around these forums, pretty soon you're going to really want a GTN-750 anyhow. Might as well start saving now.

[TWinter]

Fix the 155..MIne is "hit and miss", but it's only used after I use up all my 750, which is not very often. I've been quoted a few hundred bucks +/- to have it repaired and  refaced/refurbished. I think they are easily repairable and fairly cheap in comparison to some.

[garysuperpilot]

I was in a similar spot this time last year. I was able to pay for my F model but didn't want to invest more after laying out the money for the plane. I happen to have a 155 and a narco nav/com com but they both work well. I would look at the repair of the 155 as it is a good radio and repair may be very reasonable. What I did pickup was an iPad mini for less than 500 and got the fore flight app. Gives you gps, charts etc. and if you don't need it later you have a nice laptop. Yoke mount it and no install costs. Great backup as well. Just my 2cents.

[usafhaynes1]

Oh. I don't fly without my iPad mini and foreflight with approach plates! Especially after the last update. Now I just need a stratus 2 after I take care if the radio issue.

With only one radio, I really don't want a "hit or miss" issue. What is the reliability of a repaired kx-155? How long before I have trust issues, especially in ifr flight?

This is why I'm leaning away from used avionics versus new radio.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[N601RX]

From your brief description of the problem it sounds like your radio may not be getting a signal. The problem may be antenna, coax, spliter or it could be the radio. I would see if anyone local has one and might let you slide your radio in their rack and see if the problem really is the radio.

[carusoam]

I think if you use a narco radio, you will have trust issues from the first day...

I bought an old plane with old narco radios. First thing I did was swap out a 360 channel radio for something slightly newer with the higher number of channels.

Then...

The knob's plastic gears broke making it a counting affair to know what station you are tuning in.

The radio noise they produced was "loud enough" to block out my portable Garmin GPS.

Narco went digital prior to going out of business.

I sent my radio in for service. They quoted rebuilding for a big number. Then fifty bucks to send it back to me.

It was fifty cents worth of parts...

Their customer service failed long before their company did.

I don't think they will be missed.

I'm still a bit crusty over it. But I've kept my promise to keep telling the story as factually as I can...

Let me know I'm wrong, I'll take down this post.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I have a late generation Narco Mark 12D+ and it has worked great for 20+ years. What killed them (other than the loss of Anthony's business) was their decision to restrict field service of their units during and after the warranty period and require they be returned to Narco. I'm sure this was an attempt to get more revenue because of slowing sales as well as manage their warranty costs.

In the end, many of the avionics shops (including mine that recommended the Narco) stopped promoting them because the "return to Narco" strategy was taking money out of their pockets.

[carusoam]

One of these days I'll buy a new radio just to see what it's like!

I'm saving for the BK....

I sense the rub with the local shops. I've received the full sales pitch on brand G, while I was asking about the new BK... Thousands of WAAS installations...why would I want anything else...?

Rrrrrr...I don't know? Integration with a dozen BK boxes I already have?

Without support at the shop level, the supplier is doomed... There are too many wires, connections, integrations, software and issues like G's antennae to not need shop level support.

Hear the sound of feet dragging.........

Best regards,

-a-

[garysuperpilot]

IFR with one radio, even a good one would make me a little nervous. I lost battery power in my old Cherokee at night and since that exciting landing with no landing lights on me or the airport I keep an inexpensive handheld in my bag just in case. You need to trust what's in your plane for sure.....and then have a backup. Gotta be safe.

[triple8s]

I didn't say it before but if the ADF worked I'd get good with it, at least until you save for upgrades. Also makes for an almost stormscope. When you are ready to upgrade there may still be value in selling it they are used overseas.

[Alan Fox]

Narco Radios are very robust , and from a reliability standpoint are probably superior to King ,    It sounds like you are not getting a nav signal , which may not be a radio problem at all , Find someone with a KX155 and see if they will let you slide your radio in their tray , good quick and cheap test ......If the same problem exists its the radio , If not antenna related.....These are very inexpensive to repair......

[Hank]

IFR with one radio, even a good one would make me a little nervous. I lost battery power in my old Cherokee at night and since that exciting landing with no landing lights on me or the airport I keep an inexpensive handheld in my bag just in case. You need to trust what's in your plane for sure.....and then have a backup. Gotta be safe.

 

I'll second the handheld! I used to keep mine in the hangar for use when I traveled, because I would never need one on a local flight. Then I had an electrical failure with my CFII shooting a VOR-A approach 40 nm away, thankfully after we broke out, and flew home gear down with approach flaps, VFR, following the river because I couldn't climb high and didn't want to be near hilltops in case something else went wrong.

 

Now the handheld lives in my flight bag, with a second battery pack loaded and ready to exchange. No fumbling with batteries in the air. And the headset adapter stays plugged in to the handheld, too.

[DaV8or]

Oh. I don't fly without my iPad mini and foreflight with approach plates! Especially after the last update. Now I just need a stratus 2 after I take care if the radio issue.

With only one radio, I really don't want a "hit or miss" issue. What is the reliability of a repaired kx-155? How long before I have trust issues, especially in ifr flight?

This is why I'm leaning away from used avionics versus new radio.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I personally wouldn't fly IFR with just one radio. I would seriously consider second if you're really going to do any serious IFR.

 

I know this sounds like a cheesy sales pitch, but I have a King KX-125 Nav/Com I removed for my SL-30 and it features a built in CDI display, do you don't have to install a separate one. I have the tray too. You may need an antenna(s) though? $900 For reference-

 

[usafhaynes1]

I'm planning on purchasing the Yaesu FTA-550L in the next week, once I had a solid radio replacement solution.

My IFR plans are to bust through cloud decks, never through rough weather and run screaming from thunderstorms.  My minimums right now are 900-1000' ceiling, any lower and I find an alternate path.  The reason?  I've only been flying IFR for 12 months, I flew into home field where ceiling was reported as 900' only to get there and it was down to minimums (I broke out about 680' and min's were 625').

On the IFR note, this is why I'm thinking new radio instead of refurbished...it really is a trust issue.  Even with a handheld, my pucker factor would go into heart attack mode if I lost electrical on a flight and that would kill both radios.  Risk mitigation!!!

 

I just got back from a quick weekend flight to see family.  My plane is being put back in the hangar.  I'll check next weekend on the connector issue, but the plane did just get an annual in April prior to purchase.  One would assume that the mechanic checked the connections?  Then again, he sent back two yellow tag KI-209's due no signal without checking the radio.  He didn't even know the 155 wasn't receiving an ident signal when I brought up the issue.

 

One reason it may not be a connection issue.  While taking my first flight, I tuned in four different VOR's and of those, none received a signal through the radio but one freq did pop the "to" sign on the broken VOR.  To me, that is a signal getting through, though intermittently.

[BigTex]

The KX155a is a absolute workhorse and one of the most trusted Nav/Coms out there. Unless you have unlimited funds, getting the 155 operational is step one.

[garysuperpilot]

I've had the same mechanic for the past 15 years and the avionics is not something he is well versed in though he is a great mechanic. I believe most mechanics leave the avionics to the specialists in the field. Sure they can check some basics but I don't think they check all the radios for an annual. Yeah, I've been flying IFR for eight years and still don't "enjoy" a minimum approach all that much. I remember being told to set minimums your comfortable with. I don't feel as indestructible as I did 40 years ago and try not to take chances I don't need to. Flying needs to stay something I love to do and not something I have to do.

[usafhaynes1]

After taking the advice to check the antenna connections, I drove out to the airport and pulled the radio.  The SN was 069-1024-30, 14V WITHOUT GS!!!  

After inciting really angry words internally, an overhaul of this radio is simply not an option.  I have two choices.

1. Buy a KX-155 with a glideslope.  Use the current radio as a secondary with no nav function.

2. Buy the Garmin and pay for the installation.

 

A part of this decision is really based on what an avionics shop chop off the install price for the following equipment:

1. INOP KI-209 (I've got a yellow tag on the way)

2. Working Bendix KR-86 (I simply don't use it)

3. Apollo 2001 NMS (the VFR model that isn't receiving GPS signal without the "fix")

 

I've no problem with a shop pulling out the avionics I'm not using as a tradeoff for putting in a new garmin.  

Oh...the antenna connections were good.

 

Thoughts?

[Marauder]

I have been following this thread loosely, so if I don't get all the facts rights, sorry. Having a handheld backup is nice, but to get real utility out of it, you should look into signal splitters for the Comm (at a minimum) and possibly for the Nav as well. I had a King KI-99 that was useless without the Comm splitter. If you intend to use the handheld as a backup, I would consider just a straight Comm version wth the signal splitter and a GPS of some sort. An iPad would suffice, but if you want something more "aviation" oriented, I would look at a Garmin 496/696 or 796. Why? Because if you are in the soup, you will want to get out as quickly as possible. If your mins are where they say they are, asking a controller to get below the deck and navigating direct with radar vectors and a GPS backup is much easier than trying to use VOR signals. Trust me, I have been there... As for the panel mounted stuff, the cost versus benefit in a plane that you don't plan on keeping for the long haul, probably doesn't make sense. I don't know enough about the KX-155, but I think that you can buy an external GS receiver to work with it. Alan on this site stays up with that kind of stuff. If you do plan on keeping it a while, I would make the investment needed to keep you and your family safe.