Lycoming Factory Reman/Rebuilt Cost

[teethdoc]

So I'm strongly leaning towards the factory rebuilt option since I'm replacing an IO-360 A3b6D and I understand parts are becoming harder and harder to come by. If I go with a factory reman I can get a non-d and roller tappets.

Anybody gotten one of these recently and can give me a ballpark on what this will cost? I've seen prices for the engine itself, but what other costs are involved?

[Mooney1401]

I am going to be going the same teethdoc. In about 500 hrs or so would be interested in knowing what you do

[Cruiser]

search the posts by Jetdriven, Byron has quite a story to share.

[rahill]

The A3B6D can be replaced with the A3B6 and there aren't any real issues, although it probably makes sense to work with someone that's done the swap before.  The bracket on the governor is different, as are a few hoses and other minor items, but that's about it.  Costs to swap to the A3B6 shouldn't be significantly different than to simply remove and replace the A3B6D.

 

There is no longer a charge for the dissimilar core either, so once you're past the sticker shock of the Lycoming factory prices, there aren't really any other nasty surprises.

[jetdriven]

So I'm strongly leaning towards the factory rebuilt option since I'm replacing an IO-360 A3b6D and I understand parts are becoming harder and harder to come by. If I go with a factory reman I can get a non-d and roller tappets.

Anybody gotten one of these recently and can give me a ballpark on what this will cost? I've seen prices for the engine itself, but what other costs are involved?

Basically is a governor swap for a grand an 800$ worth of hoses. You need a 200$ prop governor bracket and a 200$ governor arm bracket.

[teethdoc]

Basically is a governor swap for a grand an 800$ worth of hoses. You need a 200$ prop governor bracket and a 200$ governor arm bracket.

FWIW our 230 hour factory engine is making metal at 230 PPM iron in 50 hours and the factory has abandoned us. Stay tuned for updates, but I feel as if we bought an engine from the pawn shop.

Well this sure does not inspire me to run out to lycoming.

[triple8s]

I am by no means an expert but the C model I owned for 5 years had a Poplar Grove Airmotive reman on it when i purchased it which had 105 hrs SMOH when i bought it. This motor was the smoothest I have ever flown behind and I had ZERO problems from the engine, it used virtually no oil between oil changes, no surprises with that engine. I recommend them for Lycoming.  

[teethdoc]

I would love to keep my engine since it only has 1900TT, but from what I've read, I'm hesitant to keep the D model.

[Ellioth]

In the spring of 2013, we discovered a case crack in our '78's IO-360A3B6D. 

 

Over the years, we had work performed at Poplar Grove Airmotive so we discussed the situation with their staff. Options:

 

1. Fix the crack -- approx $12,000

2. Overhaul and fix the crack -- approx $24,000

3. Lyc reman (-A3B6) -- approx $32,000

4. Lyc new (-A3B6) -- approx $45,000

 

They strongly hinted at option "3" being the wisest, since the reman engine would likely come with a new case to support the roller tappet cam.

 

So...a bit over $32,000 for the engine, and about $10,000 for the install ( yikes! prop governor upgrade, oil cooler overhaul, exhaust system rebuild, hoses, mounts, baffles, vacuum pump, and so on). The work was performed at a well known Texas MSC.

 

For those interested, yes, the new engine runs $42,000 smoother.

[AndyFromCB]

Well this sure does not inspire me to run out to lycoming.

 

I remember people telling me I was wrong doing my overhaul with a local shop here in Omaha (Central Cylinder, who by the way does crankshafts and cylinders for most big name shops). That I was going to pay more than factory, that my warranty would be worthless, etc, etc, etc. 200 hours on the overhaul, to new limits, going amazingly strong. 32K vs 58K from lycoming (yes, Bravo engine is nothing but a basic 250hp io550), overhauled the cylinders instead of going new. Compressions as of last friday: 77, 76, 78, 77, 76, 76. No metal. And from everyone I talked to, including a flight school here at KCBF, if there is ever a problem, Central Cylinder guys will go out of their way to be fair fixing it. Warranty was 2 years, 1000 hours.

 

Go with a known small shop in your area...My two cents...

 

Little plug for my guys, really amazing crew, on time, to a dollar on the estimate...

 

http://www.centralcylinder.com/testimonials/

[rbridges]

not to derail this thread, but how do the IO360 cost options compare to O360?  

[Mooney1401]

Ellioth, where was the crack in your case. I had one too, in my engine. (IO360A3B6D) last year that I opted to send out to be repaired

Mine was in the case right near the # 2 jug bolts on

[Txbyker]

I bought a zero time rebuild from Airpower for my J Oct 12.  They charged me $31.7K.  Maxwell did the swap and i seem to recall I spent another $5-6K but I went all new on everything including rebuilding pumps, new hoses, etc.  

 

Plane ran great, very smooth, and did about 4 oil changes before I sold it with solid results.

 

Russ

[KSMooniac]

not to derail this thread, but how do the IO360 cost options compare to O360?  

I haven't shopped for an O-360, but they should be noticeably cheaper than the IO-360.  The IO-360 cylinders are sole-source Lycoming and cost twice as much as O-360 cylinders with aftermarket options, so if you go with new jugs you'll save $4k right off the bat.  If you overhaul the cylinders, then the costs should be similar.  I'm not sure of carb overhaul cost vs. fuel injection system...maybe that is a wash.  The IO crank has counterweights that should be marginally more expensive to inspect and recertify.  The rest of the task list should be pretty similar...

[John Pleisse]

Basically is a governor swap for a grand an 800$ worth of hoses.  You need a 200$ prop governor bracket and a 200$ governor arm bracket.

 

FWIW our 230 hour factory engine is making metal at 230 PPM iron in 50 hours and the factory has abandoned us.  Stay tuned for updates, but I feel as if we bought an engine from the pawn shop.

 

Well, just give Lycoming all of your EDM data to analyze and I am sure they will see the engine has been flown "by the book".

[jetdriven]

Our engine monitor does not record. However I don't think it would show anything of note, it runs well and cool. Usually CHT is 320-380 in cruise. In fact the only thing that appears out of order is the high iron and Chromium. Silicon still remais at 13, but ~3 of that is due to Camguard. Are you suggesting that how we operate the engine has something to do with iron counts in the oil analysis?

[larryb]

Byron:

 

     How long does a typical engine take to break in and have the wear metals at normal levels? Also, what's the trend in yours? Rising, falling, or steady?

 

Larry

[jetdriven]

Well two other members on this board installed factory overhauled engines and their wear metals are stabilized at 30-50 hours. Usually the iron is in the 20-30s. Someday I'll compile all this data so we can make use of it.

[Jeff_S]

TeethDoc, I'm curious why you are shopping for an engine at all. I went back to your first thread on this, and all you say is that you are nearing TBO. Admittedly, if it truly is the original engine from a 1977 J and it is just now hitting 2000 hours, that's not a lot of use. But what is it about the engine that is failing?  What specifically are you addressing by looking at new/reman/overhaul opportunities?

 

The only reason I ask is just to make sure you've considered the concept of reliability-centered-maintenance rather than just pure TBO.  If you read the literature (lots from Mike Busch, John Deakin and others) there is a strong argument for ignoring TBO and only dealing with engine issues as they arise. So if your engine is otherwise doing fine but just has some years on it, that's no reason to swap it out.  Of course, if you ARE seeing maintenance problems and have determined that a new engine is the best solution, fine...it's just that you never mentioned them so I wanted to at least get this thought out there for you.

[jetdriven]

Another issue is that Lycoming will not accept a core over 35 years old. Our old engine was 34 years and 7 months so we barely got it.

[Ellioth]

Ellioth, where was the crack in your case. I had one too, in my engine. (IO360A3B6D) last year that I opted to send out to be repaired

Mine was in the case right near the # 2 jug bolts on

Same as mine -- cyl 2.

 

In fact, when I called Poplar Grove Airmotive and mentioned the airframe/engine type and that there was a crack on the cylinder mounting boss, their reply was "was that on cylinder 2?"

[aaronk25]

Well two other members on this board installed factory overhauled engines and their wear metals are stabilized at 30-50 hours. Usually the iron is in the 20-30s. Someday I'll compile all this data so we can make use of it.

At 200plus ppm iron are you seeing iron in your filter?

And I wonder lycoming would consider a abnormal oil analysis?

[Mooney1401]

I had mine repaired and have about 80 hrs on since. All is working well, tomorrow I am flying to my AME for an oil change

[Mooney_Allegro]

A year & 1/2 ago I went with a Lycoming IO-360-A3B6 Factory Reman. Cost $28,000 with the return of a first run plus everything else. Total cost for the engine, labor, eng mount overhaul, components was $39,000. I've had Precision Fuel Servo issues ever since & over $5000 in labor & increasing every day to diagnose the problem of the plane quitting on rollout after landing with an RPM rise on shutdown of up to 300 RPM right after adjustments. I've had at least 5 different mechanics across the country work the problem. It's very upsetting & the plane is down. Lycoming reimburses me some under warranty, but not nearly enough. A prominent Mooney Service Center advised me that they have experienced many issues with the Precision Fuel Servos.

[jetdriven]

Ours died the first flight on the rollout but the idle mixture was set far too rich. Removing the cotter pin and adjusting the idle mixture link gave us the proper 750 RPM idle speed and idle mixture since then, it's cool. Try that. Per precision lette SIL RS-67 you may have no RPM rise during cutoff from idle and that's OK.