M-20 Turbo

[lukejb]

I am looking at purchasing a J model Mooney with a M-20 Turbo kit installed on it.  I am interested in a Turbo for the long x-country's but while learning about the M-20 Turbo on their website I noticed that they are no longer producing these and I tried to call and the phone was disconnected.  The turbo works great now but my concern is maintenance and getting parts.  Is there a way to maintain and buy parts for these?  If not how big of a job is it to change the airplane back to a normally aspirated system?

 

Thanks!

[Rustler]

lukejb--

 

Back in May/June, I was considering purchasing the M20 Turbo STC from Mrs. Sandman. After many hours of conversations and going over the spread sheets of the parts necessary to assemble to make the M20, I decided it wasn't worth it with such a small potential market. Most, if not all, of the parts are available, but they might be difficult to find, since many are not made on a regular basis. As I recall, some parts have changed numbers and/or manufacturers.

 

I decided to purchase an M20K instead and am happy I did.

[M20F-1968]

The major parts are available, specifically the turbo, scavenger pump and wastegate.  The exhaust is unique but can be made. 

 

For what it is worth, I have a completely rebuilt original RayJay system with the STC's and paperwork.  It was originally designed and documented for installation on an E or F (IO-360 A1A) but could be installed on a J with DAR approval.  The modification would need to be the re-routing of hoses to the J model style air box as opposed to the F model style air box.  I have even made a prototype intercooler and pop-off valve (and have the tooling jig to make the part) so the older system could have both the intercooler and pop-off as does the M20 system.  The advantage to the older system is that it has a manual wastegate so a higher critical altitude is possible and the turbo need not run full-time.  Kelley Aerospace (who owned the STC for a long time) also suggested to me that the system be installed without the flapper box which would simplify the install.  Everything has been rebuilt with thicker stainless steel than the original and with a much beefier wastegate.  You can call me to (617) 877-0025 or e-mail me at johnabreda@yahoo.com if you want to discuss further.

John Breda

[Alan Fox]

I personally would stick with the K model , when Mooney designed the turbo , they decided to go with the 6 cyl continental , because of reliability issues with the 4 cyl turbos , in my opinion if Mooney feels that the 4 cyl turbo is not a good option , I'm not going aftermarket.....  I have also spoken to MSCs and was told that a 231 was a better option than a rocket conversion , as they are built better and the maintainence  problems outweighed the performance gains....

[Steve Dawson]

Why did Mooney say the 4 cyl not be a good choice? Is it possible that the 6 cyl was already being used in the turbo arrow also?

[Alan Fox]

I had read in a Larry Ball book , that Mooney had reliability issues with the 4cyl lycoming turbos ,they tested it and moved on to the continental ,  as far as I know the only factory install of a 4 cyl lycoming turbo is the Twin Commanche ,

[fantom]

I have also spoken to MSCs and was told that a 231 was a better option than a rocket conversion , as they are built better and the maintainence  problems outweighed the performance gains....

 

Some time ago, when I was interested in a Rocket or Missile conversion, I heard the same thing from multiple sources. Of course there's no conclusive proof, one way or the other. 

[John Pleisse]

Stay away from any Bullet conversion. There is a 5,000 hr J M20Turbo for sale on Controller.com. I agree with the 231 idea....

[N201MKTurbo]

I flew a Commander 112TC for my backup plane for 3 years. It had the Lycoming 4 cylinder turbo engine. It is a completely different engine then our IO-360. That engine was a piece of junk! It wouldn't run smooth at less then 13 GPH in cruise and it always seemed to be underpowered. Might have had something to do with being bolted to that lead sled.

[carusoam]

Where is the Bullet guy lately???

-a-

[KSMooniac]

The Turbo Bullet mod existed for a short while in the 80's I believe, and was developed by Darwin Conrad.  Conrad later went on to make the Missile and Rocket conversions before moving on to turbine conversions on other airframes.  They are still around as Rocket Engineering in WA.

[kmyfm20s]

Anyone know what the opinions is on the Tornado Alley turbo normalized Cardinals? Those guys seem to know what they are doing with after market turbos.

[KSMooniac]

Anyone know what the opinions is on the Tornado Alley turbo normalized Cardinals? Those guys seem to know what they are doing with after market turbos.

 

No experience, but I bet it is a fantastic system.  They actually bought the Cardinal STC from someone else, then went through the system and updated/corrected it to their standards.  Only downside IMO is the $40k+ sale price + installation...hard to make that pencil-out on an $80k plane but who knows.  Avweb did a story (and video) on it a few years back and it might still be on their site.

[aaronk25]

If tornado alley makes it I'll guarantee it's a fantastic system. Only 2 more years and maybe we can install it on our planes as part of the new non commercial standard!?!