Junk

[quik flite]

Call Dorn at Webers in Lancaster PA or a Mooney Service Center close to you and ask them of planes for sale that they would recommend, There is a big difference in maintenance ,and an excellent shop is a valuable asset and in the long run a  much more enjoyable experience and I know Webers is an excellent and fairly priced Mooney Service Center. I have flown with a few mooney pilots who could not believe how smooth ,quiet , easy starting and fast my plane was and they had the same model, a few years older. It is a buyers market buy the best one you can afford , it will be the least expensive in the long run..

[aviatoreb]

Thumbs up for Dorn at Webers in Lancaster. That is where I visited today. I was very impressed.

[cbarry]

Call me crazy, but I've purchased the Mooneys I've owned sight unseen. This not to say that I haven't had my share of frustration as well. However, I believe if you really know what you're looking for, what to watch out for, follow the proper prebuy procedures and realize that even if the plane appears to be "well maintained" you should still expect the unexpected. Planning to buy is not that different than planning a flight in that the best laid plan still needs flexibility. The procedure I take is: 1) Know the aircraft that fits your mission--both flight mission and money wise, 2) Research the values of the existing aircraft as well as the cost of what you would like to change about it (avionics, interior, paint...), 3) If the aircraft is still in the running at this point, then make an offer contingent on a satisfactory prebuy at a service center of your choice, 4) Roll the prebuy into an annual regardless of how recent the annual was completed, 5) Negotiate the final purchase price based on any squawks whether airworthy or not, 6) Hire a qualified pilot, preferably affiliated with the shop doing the annual or the broker offering the aircraft, to fly the plane to you for delivery.

Stay patient and have faith that the right one will come along. After all most of uncertainty is behind you because you looking at Mooneys!

[carusoam]

Erik,

Be careful when visiting Webers...

They invite you in under the guise of being an MSC, and then you see the twins...

It happened to our Bravo guy...

Next thing you know, a pressurized twin is being squeezed into your hangar.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Erik,

Be careful when visiting Webers...

They invite you in under the guise of being an MSC, and then you see the twins...

It happened to our Bravo guy...

Next thing you know, a pressurized twin is being squeezed into your hangar.

Best regards,

-a-

Funny you should mention this. Brett just went there and now he is looking for a twin... Interesting observation Anthony.

[231Pilot]

I have bought three and sold two dealing with Jimmy and David at All American Aircraft.  Not the lowest prices out there, but nothing has ever been misrepresented.  They are honest, and they know Mooney aircraft as well as anyone out there.  If I ever get another, it will be through them if at all possible.

[PTK]

Call Dorn at Webers in Lancaster PA or a Mooney Service Center close to you and ask them of planes for sale that they would recommend...

This is excellent advice. Also Mooneymite's and KSMooniac's above.

There are excellent airplanes out there with top notch mx history.

A recommendation of a certain airplane coming from a reputable MSC such as Weber or Dugosh who know its mx history and what the owner's philosophy has been towards mx, is priceless advice. It provides insight into the airplane's hx non-obtainable any other way.

A used airplane dealer's opinion pales in comparison simply because they need to sell "an" airplane.

[aviatoreb]

Erik,

Be careful when visiting Webers...

They invite you in under the guise of being an MSC, and then you see the twins...

It happened to our Bravo guy...

Next thing you know, a pressurized twin is being squeezed into your hangar.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Thanks for the warning!  :-)

 

My wife would just kill me if I went to the MSC with a bag full of beans and came home with an Aerostar.  But it sure looked comfortable in that thing....  And they sure were pretty ....  And my kids keep growing....  WOW - check out what an Aerostar 700P can do!  And the wingspan is about the same as an M20.....

 

Just kidding - I don't need no stinkin' twin....I got the perfect airplane - N10933!

[PTK]

Thanks for the warning! :-)

My wife would just kill me if I went to the MSC with a bag full of beans and came home with an Aerostar. But it sure looked comfortable in that thing.... And they sure were pretty .... And my kids keep growing.... WOW - check out what an Aerostar 700P can do! And the wingspan is about the same as an M20.....

Just kidding - I don't need no stinkin' twin....I got the perfect airplane - N10933!

Wrong thought process Erik!

We never talk to our wives in the negative like that when it comes to our airplanes, cars and other motorized machines!

We never ever tell them "...I don't need..." We always include them in the decision by telling them "...we need..."

[aviatoreb]

Wrong thought process Erik!

We never talk to our wives in the negative like that when it comes to our airplanes, cars and other motorized machines!

We never ever tell them "...I don't need..." We always include them in the decision by telling them "...we need..."

When I bought my motorcycle I brought it home and she found it in the garage...in her spot!

 

I hear ya.  Quite right.

 

My wife is a saint - she is very understanding and extremely supportive of my keeping a very expensive airplane despite it is very much an Erik thing and less a thing for her as she is not so much into airplanes.  

[DrBill]

I have my E for 2+ years now and I remember that for the most part Mooneys less than 60K were not what I was looking for. I wanted upgraded avionics and good mechanical condition. I was looking for and E or F only. After 4 months, I found one about 1 hr drive away and ended up buying it. It did have fuel seep and I flew it a year before getting the bladders installed. Given some issues found in the prebuy I did get it for a great deal. 2 years earlier the owner had put 43K of avionics in it as he was traveling monthly to Mexico from VA !. Just take your time and put a list of questions together when you call. Look on flight aware for recent flights. If you don't see any, then it probably has not flown much or not IFR if at all. And we all know that most Mooneys are flown IFR (from another thread...DL Medical)..

Patience and due dilligence is key.

BILL

[rbridges]

I have my E for 2+ years now and I remember that for the most part Mooneys less than 60K were not what I was looking for. I wanted upgraded avionics and good mechanical condition. I was looking for and E or F only. After 4 months, I found one about 1 hr drive away and ended up buying it. It did have fuel seep and I flew it a year before getting the bladders installed. 

 

wow, that's almost my same story, down to the fuel seep.  I did end up with a C, however.  It was close and looked great.  Couldn't pass it up.

[Mooneymite]

 It was close and looked great.  Couldn't pass it up.

 

After several attempts at buying aircraft "away" from home, I now give about a $3000-$4000 advantage to aircraft that are close to home.  I'm lucky to have a lot of aircraft to choose from in the SE.  I gave up on a bi-plane in TX that was just what I wanted because it was so remote, it was a full day, each way just to inspect the thing.

[scottfromiowa]

There has ALWAYS been a lot of junk out there...and pilot-owners that are not rational about the condition value of their aircraft...

 

HERE is the rub-It's the 21st Century and buyers have tremendous tools to assist in purchase of a used aircraft from a private seller AND probably even MORE important Mooneyspace to know what questions to ask, what due diligence to do BEFORE driving 16 hours to "look" at a bird that could have been vetted without the travel.  I agree that an owner that will NOT make an electronic file of his/her aircrafts airframe and engine logs Take digital photos of important areas (Wheel wells/Wing interior/Engine/Battery/Tail) (last five years) is either LAZY or does not REALLY want to part with the plane.  Move on...

 

12/18 is the 10th anniversary of my purchase of a 1966 M20E.  What did I have for resources in 2003? 

1.Telephone

2.Trade A Plane

3. Book on buying an airplane

4. My Gut...

5. Aviation Consumer Used Aircraft Guide

I made every mistake possible in my purchase

Ten years later you have:

1.Mooneyspace

2.The internet with ease of sending PDF files with photos and logs

ALL YOU NEED...plus a REAL PRE-BUY inspection

 

Buyer on this thread has NOT defined his mission, price point.  Didn't ask for help...just related his negative experiences in being able to find a Mooney that is not ??? 10, 20, 30 40, 50 years old...

I thought I was buying the most airplane with the most features I could afford at the time of my purchase.  Since 2003 the values of used Mooney's have plummeted.  I could NOT buy a 201 for under my price point of $55k.  Still can't.  You GET what you pay for and I paid for a hanger queen that had not been flown for 15+ years that had tired EVERYTHING...but low time on airframe.  No way I would buy that plane knowing what I know now.

 

BUT, after ten years of ownership...now CO-ownership I have "made her mine" and repaired/replaced/overhauled nearly every system...and I should expect that for an airframe that is 47 years old.

 

If original author had said: "Man, I #$#%ed up and drove 16 hours to see an old tired airframe that I should have better vetted before the trip...How can I do that?  Or I am looking for a M20E and here is my price point, Am I being reasonable?  Or, there is a lot of crap out there!  How do I find an M20E at $____that has _____?             

 

I wish I would have had this resource when I was hunting for the "right plane FOR ME"...at the "RIGHT price".

[Matt Michael]

Well guys, I'm not quite as dumb as you may think.  I have done a lot research to know what I'm looking for and what I'm looking at.  I ask LOTS of questions of experienced owners, pilots, mechanics, and inspectors that I'm acquainted with and I pay attention.  I consider this forum only one of a great bunch of resources at my disposal.  I'm able and willing to work on a project airplane and so actually looking at substandard stuff is required.  It can be one way to get a killer deal and I like killer deals.  Yeah, it was a long drive but actually, I thoroughly enjoyed it because I got to spend hours with one of my favorite pals.  When we weren't talking flying it was music, women, books...  We never got bored!  For me it was a 2 day vacation.  It's just mind boggling to me that knowing how far I was traveling, the seller would so seriously misrepresent and make us wait around so much.  If I hadn't had such a great time and learned so much I would have been incensed! 

 

One of the reasons I had such a good time was that while waiting for the seller my pal and I visited a local aviation museum on the field.  While touring through hangers with a volunteer guide we came to what was described as a replica Jenny.  Then my pal spoke up and said, "no, I built that airplane".  

The tour guide said, "you mean you built one of this type?"

"No, I built THIS airplane.  Actually, I DESIGNED and built this airplane when I was 18".

The guide and I just stood there with out mouths hanging open not knowing what to say.  Turned out that my buddy had sold this plane 30 years ago!  It was the second (of over 20) that he built.  Until we saw it there languishing in the dusty museum hanger he'd had no idea what had become of it.  It was a pretty amazing moment and we knew right there that the entire trip was worth it.

[scottfromiowa]

I didn't say "dumb" either...You ARE looking for a MOONEY.

-Still think you are cryptic in your search and would rather hear:

-What you did to research the specific plane before yoou traveled to see it?

-What was seller asking for the "junk"?

Glad trip had the cool side-bar story with the re-uniting of a builder with his plane. I enjoyed it

[KSMooniac]

That is a cool story!  I'm out of "likes" for the day, unfortunately  

 

Putting your criteria out here for us to understand might lead to a tip on a good candidate.  You also might reach out to some of the best MSC's as well as they'll frequently know of that owner that has been thinking about selling, but just can't get around to listing the plane, in which case an offer might get you there.  

 

It sounds like you want a project plane for a low price with plans to put a lot of sweat equity into and who knows what in terms of upgrades.  I'm just guessing, though.  It might be hard to find a project that has been cared for to the point where it is worth bringing back to life, but surely there are some out there.

[Hank]

wow, that's almost my same story, down to the fuel seep.  I did end up with a C, however.  It was close and looked great.  Couldn't pass it up.

That makes three. My C was at my field, with a fuel seep but otherwise great condition. The not-yet-needed repair was taken into account, and three years later I had her stripped and resealed. Life is good now!

[NotarPilot]

It's just mind boggling to me that knowing how far I was traveling, the seller would so seriously misrepresent and make us wait around so much. If I hadn't had such a great time and learned so much I would have been incensed!.

In my opinion this is a general problem with society. People are not always considerate about other people's time or effort. I know a guy who sells stuff in Craigslist and he used to tell me how people would call and say they wanted to meet to inspect whatever he was selling and would never show up.

When I was selling my old house, years ago, a woman made an appointment to come take a look at it one morning. I had to drive 100 miles to my old house and she never showed up. When I called after she was late she said she couldn't make it but was really indifferent about it. Wow! A call would have been nice. I was livid.

[Jerry 5TJ]

"Junk" is not a new problem. I bought my first airplane (M20E) about 25 years ago. Looked all over for hundreds of miles, six months of chasing around, pouring through TAP, "long distance" calls a-plenty, rejected a lot of poor old Mooneys. (They seemed old even then).

Then one day at home field I saw a guy tacking up a 3x5 card on the bulletin board... A keeper lovingly flown & carefully maintained. Flew it nearly 1000 hours in 7 years.

[carusoam]

At least post a pic of the Jenny...

So what's next, you've seen the project plane, It doesn't seem like anyone is looking for that project.....or at least not yet.

(1) make an offer that makes sense to you. This keeps you from driving 7 hours to see a different project

(2) keep looking

(3) change mission or budget

(4) call AAA (All American

Not everyone enjoys the sales aspect of machinery...

Best regards,

-a-

[aaronk25]

Ok ok ok so what is your price point?

[Matt Michael]

The plane in question, the one that I just looked at and rejected was being offered for $44.5K with annual (at his shop) or $40K as is.  It had a lot going for it really, relatively fresh engine, new prop, 430...  But overall it was really rough.  Obviously sat outside a lot, interior pretty much shot. It did not look like a well taken care of machine.  I'm willing to work for what I want but this one wasn't the one to work with.  There was a missed AD in the last annual.  The fuel "seep" was a river. One starts to be suspicious of everything and you'd be a fool not to be.  If the guy had been straight with me from the start and was willing to take $30K I might have taken it.  But, he had stated several times that 40 was his bottom dollar and he'd just keep it.  There are more fish in the sea and I've already got another one on the line that is much more realistically priced.  It will need an engine overhaul soon but I can deal with that.  The rest of it looks pretty good.  Best part is that the owner is willing to trade and I have something he is interested in that I need to move.  Cautiously optimistic...

[scottfromiowa]

"Not everyone enjoys the 'sales aspect' of machinery"...Hmmmmm

[scottfromiowa]

What is the definition of "tire kicker"?