Mooney Factory

[KSMooniac]

He might be an adjunct... sometimes they're not listed.

[Freebird]

I went to the UCLA website and could not find any mention of Jerry Chen Professor of Aeronautics. Not saying he doesn't exist - just could find him.

 

Austin

 

Did the same thing.  There are a couple of Chen's.  Maybe Jerry is his nick name.  Bill said he was a full prof, not adjunct.

[yvesg]

His real first name is Cheng-Yuang. See http://www.expressnews.com/business/local/article/Kerrville-s-Mooney-Aviation-hiring-4895442.php

Yves

[Jamie]

Protip: Consult with a local for a potential branding problem in Greece.

[Shadrach]

The main reason they quit building the mid-body was the cockpit roll cage master framing tool. There is only one. When they modified it to make long body planes, they could no longer build the mid body planes.

I don't think this the case. While the roll cage did undergo structural enhancements over the years, I believe all of the body mounting points are the same from the A model to the TN. The engine mount area was beefed up when larger engines became part of the line up. IIRC, there is no difference in cabin dimensions between my F and an Acclaim, just a larger baggage compartment. I can't imagine why they would need to change the jigs going from J to L. Do you have a link that shows the difference in cage size?

[DS1980]

 anyone that can purchase a $550,000 plane today will 10 times out of 10 opt for the faster $575,000 plane.  It is too bad, but there isn't much we can do about it.  

These are the numbers that drove them out of business. They didn't go TU because the airplanes are garbage, they went TU because they were too expensive and only offered 2 airframes. Like I said, just hope they keep flexible.

[1964-M20E]

Bottom line is at $550k+ there are only a very small number of people who can and or will buy a new plane. The only way it makes sense is if you own a business and can write off the expenses of buying and owning a new plane.  I’m no tax expert but I think the best way for someone to do it would be to have a separate company owning the plane and the primary company buying flight time in the plane.  Company #1 writes off the total expense of flight time and company #2 makes a small profit.

 

I am partial to the short to mid length bodies I think the sit on the ramp better.  I know that short body would never be produced.

 

I know I’m dreaming but a no frills basic manual gear, flaps J model: fancier options extra.

 

$50k for the hull

$40k avionics

$35k engine

$20k misc.

$145k total

$100k profit

 

$245k to $255k

 

This brings it into the realm that more individuals, small partnerships or small businesses can purchase a plane.

 

The idea is to make the planes more affordable and they will sell not necessarily to make them fancy and higher prices and have them sit on the ramp in Kerrville.  Yes offer the high end fancy models for those who want them, can afford them and justify them.

[Jonwayne79]

Incredible news!  Thank you so much!!

[231flyer]

Business and General Aviation – China as an Investor and Manufacturer (AviationWeek)   AgustaWestland – Joint venture established with Changhe Aircraft Industry in 2005 to assemble AW109 light-twin helicopter in Jingdezhen (as CA109). Brantly – Acquired by Qingdao Haili Helicopters in 2007; B2B light-piston helicopter production moved to Qingdao; unmanned version developed. Caiga – Designs acquired in 2010 from bankrupt U.S. kitplane-maker Epic Air by Avic’s China Aviation Industry General Aircraft (Caiga) form the basis of Primus turboprop and Starlight turbofan business aircraft. Cessna – Skycatcher light-sport aircraft is built by AAT in Shenyang; Caravan is to be assembled in Shijiazhuang under joint venture with Caiga; negotiating with Caiga to assemble Citation XLS+ business jet in Zhuhai, and with ATT to assemble Citation Sovereign in Chengdu. Cirrus – U.S. light-aircraft manufacturer was acquired by Caiga in 2011; Caiga South China Aircraft Industry assembles Cirrus SR20/22 in Zhuhai. Continental/Theilert – Continental Motors was acquired from Teledyne by Avic (Technify Motors) in 2010; Theilert Aircraft Engines was acquired by Avic in July 2013 and merged with Continental. Diamond – Shandong Bin Ao Aircraft Industries assembles DA40 TDI light-twin for China and selected Asian countries. Embraer – Harbin Embraer Aircraft Industry, a joint venture with Avic, has begun assembly of Legacy 650 business jets in Harbin; first delivery end of 2013. Enstrom – U.S. light-helicopter manufacturer was acquired by Chongqing Helicopter Investment in December 2012. Eurocopter – Co-development of the Eurocopter EC175 and Avicopter AC532 medium-twin helicopters was launched in 2005. Harbin Aircraft Industry supplies airframes for the EC175 and builds light EC120 as HC-120. Flight Design – German light aircraft (CTLS and C4) to be produced in China beginning in 2015 under a deal with Taiwan’s Aero Jones. Icon – U.S. light-sport seaplane manufacturer’s June 2013 equity financing round was led by a Chinese strategic private investor; airframes are to be supplied by Caiga-owned Cirrus. Pilatus – Agreement signed with Beijing Tian Xing Yu Science in July 2013 to assemble PC-6 utility and PC-12 business turboprops in Chongqing. Sikorsky – Changhe Aircraft supplied S-76C helicopter airframes under agreement signed in 2007; new deal signed in September 2013 to supply S-76D airframes. Superior Air Parts – U.S. piston-aeroengine aftermarket parts manufacturer was sold to Superior Aviation Beijing in 2008, and combined with Brantly in 2011. Yuneec – Jiangsu-based Yuneec International manufacturers of the e430 electric-powered light-sport aircraft marketed by U.S.-based subsidiary GreenWing International.

[kmyfm20s]

Business and General Aviation – China as an Investor and Manufacturer (AviationWeek)   AgustaWestland – Joint venture established with Changhe Aircraft Industry in 2005 to assemble AW109 light-twin helicopter in Jingdezhen (as CA109). Brantly – Acquired by Qingdao Haili Helicopters in 2007; B2B light-piston helicopter production moved to Qingdao; unmanned version developed. Caiga – Designs acquired in 2010 from bankrupt U.S. kitplane-maker Epic Air by Avic’s China Aviation Industry General Aircraft (Caiga) form the basis of Primus turboprop and Starlight turbofan business aircraft. Cessna – Skycatcher light-sport aircraft is built by AAT in Shenyang; Caravan is to be assembled in Shijiazhuang under joint venture with Caiga; negotiating with Caiga to assemble Citation XLS+ business jet in Zhuhai, and with ATT to assemble Citation Sovereign in Chengdu. Cirrus – U.S. light-aircraft manufacturer was acquired by Caiga in 2011; Caiga South China Aircraft Industry assembles Cirrus SR20/22 in Zhuhai. Continental/Theilert – Continental Motors was acquired from Teledyne by Avic (Technify Motors) in 2010; Theilert Aircraft Engines was acquired by Avic in July 2013 and merged with Continental. Diamond – Shandong Bin Ao Aircraft Industries assembles DA40 TDI light-twin for China and selected Asian countries. Embraer – Harbin Embraer Aircraft Industry, a joint venture with Avic, has begun assembly of Legacy 650 business jets in Harbin; first delivery end of 2013. Enstrom – U.S. light-helicopter manufacturer was acquired by Chongqing Helicopter Investment in December 2012. Eurocopter – Co-development of the Eurocopter EC175 and Avicopter AC532 medium-twin helicopters was launched in 2005. Harbin Aircraft Industry supplies airframes for the EC175 and builds light EC120 as HC-120. Flight Design – German light aircraft (CTLS and C4) to be produced in China beginning in 2015 under a deal with Taiwan’s Aero Jones. Icon – U.S. light-sport seaplane manufacturer’s June 2013 equity financing round was led by a Chinese strategic private investor; airframes are to be supplied by Caiga-owned Cirrus. Pilatus – Agreement signed with Beijing Tian Xing Yu Science in July 2013 to assemble PC-6 utility and PC-12 business turboprops in Chongqing. Sikorsky – Changhe Aircraft supplied S-76C helicopter airframes under agreement signed in 2007; new deal signed in September 2013 to supply S-76D airframes. Superior Air Parts – U.S. piston-aeroengine aftermarket parts manufacturer was sold to Superior Aviation Beijing in 2008, and combined with Brantly in 2011. Yuneec – Jiangsu-based Yuneec International manufacturers of the e430 electric-powered light-sport aircraft marketed by U.S.-based subsidiary GreenWing International.

Well...there goes the neighborhood!

[goncaloareia]

Here's my 2 cents on these excellent news regarding mooney comeback...

Here in Europe (and increasingly throughout the world) Mooney wont stand a chance in selling M20's (mid or long body) if they insist in the US vision of big gasoline (AVGAS) engines.

No matter the solution that is found for the AVGAS replacement, JET-A1 is the ONLY option in certified general aviation in a near future (because in Ultralight or LSA Rotax will rule for years to come). This comes mostly from the fact that the cost of AVGAS compared with JET is just unbearable now in most parts of the world, and in entire continents like Africa, most of Asia, parts of South America and even in some airports in Europe, AVGAS is just not available... No matter the solution found for the lead in AVGAS, the volumes to be produced will always be very slim, so the prices will always be higher (I fear significantly higher) than JET.

So, my vision for a solid Mooney in the future is to innovate firewall forward... something that Cirrus, Cessna and Piper are taking too long to do, and that can create the "difference" factor that Mooney now needs on its comeback to the market...

Continental has the engines and the support for that innovation to appear...

I'm already dreaming with a long body M-20 with a JET-A1 diesel engine, performing like an Ovation at half the price in fuel cost of the excellent performer Mooney 252...all of this is achievable TODAY... 

In a few words: Mooney needs to think AHEAD and not just try to sell some newly painted Acclaims or Ovations.

Kind regards to all!

Goncalo

Lisbon, Portugal

[Parker_Woodruff]

-

[Awful_Charlie]

Here in Europe (and increasingly throughout the world) Mooney wont stand a chance in selling M20's (mid or long body) if they insist in the US vision of big gasoline (AVGAS) engines.

No matter the solution that is found for the AVGAS replacement, JET-A1 is the ONLY option in certified general aviation in a near future (because in Ultralight or LSA Rotax will rule for years to come). This comes mostly from the fact that the cost of AVGAS compared with JET is just unbearable now in most parts of the world, and in entire continents like Africa, most of Asia, parts of South America and even in some airports in Europe, AVGAS is just not available... No matter the solution found for the lead in AVGAS, the volumes to be produced will always be very slim, so the prices will always be higher (I fear significantly higher) than JET.

I fully agree with you.  I thought it was bad enough at my home base with €2.10 per litre, but when I dropped into your home base a couple of weeks ago, €2.72 per litre made my eyes water a bit!

 

Ben

[KSMooniac]

Those of you that think Mooney can sell a new plane for $250k are dreaming.  When they shut down, there were still 4000+ man hours involved in the construction of each Mooney... What is your guess at an all-in rate per hour for that labor?  $40?  $50?  At $50/hr all-in, that is $200k just in labor and you haven't accounted for any materials, components and especially product liability insurance.

 

Dreaming is always fun, but if you want suggestions to be taken seriously they need to be attainable.  I sure wish I could buy a new Mooney today for $250k, but I can't and no amount of wishing will make it so.  

[fantom]

Dreaming is always fun, but if you want suggestions to be taken seriously they need to be attainable.  I sure wish I could buy a new Mooney today for $250k, but I can't and no amount of wishing will make it so.  

 

A loaded J was running close to that when I purchased mine twenty years ago. The factory guys then claimed they were breaking even on the MSE, and making a little on Ovations and Bravos. I believed them, after applying my cost accounting expertise.  Yes, I've posted it here in the past, so do a search if you're interested.

 

If nothing else Mooney International needs to show a profit after overhead, debt reduction, liability reserves, and all the rest. To do that they need to focus new plane sales on the business folks, lawyers, doctors and dentists looking for a fancy Lexus like interior, easy entrance, and a slick handle to pull when they screw up.

 

Otherwise, they'll just  follow the failed Mooney business model of the past, and that will be bad for all of US.

[KSMooniac]

There are few color combos as gorgeous as a silver exterior with a red or dark red interior!  I've seen a few Mercedes like this and some other cars over the years.  Black with a cinnamon or dark tan interior also looks great.

[Parker_Woodruff]

There are few color combos as gorgeous as a silver exterior with a red or dark red interior! I've seen a few Mercedes like this and some other cars over the years. Black with a cinnamon or dark tan interior also looks great.

Red interior...ugh...

[fantom]

 

All that is old is new again.  I knew that if I procrastinated long enough, my red interior from the 80s would be "in" again.  

 

 

It may be 'in', but it's still butt ugly  and yes folks, I've seen it.

[KSMooniac]

Not ugly here!

 

[kmyfm20s]

Not ugly here!

 

2014-E-Class-cabriolet-red-soft-top-red-leather-595x446.jpg

Maybe you need a faux soft top on the plane to make the interior pop like that!

[Steve Dawson]

That's way too much red Scott.

[Jamie]

Those of you that think Mooney can sell a new plane for $250k are dreaming.  When they shut down, there were still 4000+ man hours involved in the construction of each Mooney...

 

Which is the entire problem. Stop building airplanes that take 4000+ man hours.  Stop running factories like assembly lines for pieces of art and engineer the damn things for -mass- production.

[Scott Aviation]

When I went for a factory tour in 2010 the production manager told me with great pride they were able to get the man hours to build a mooney down to 2500. Ill guarantee mooney was not costing out tge staff at 50 probably 20hour plus 10 in insurance and benifits call it $30/hour x 2500 $75000 labor probably another $75000 in stamped parts skins rivets etc and materials theres no way the structure was costing mooney over 250k or they would have been broke loooong ago

[KSMooniac]

I was told at Oshkosh this year that they had worked very hard to get it down to 4200 hours or so right before the shutdown. It had been north of 6000 hours. Not even the composite planes are at 2500 hours I believe. Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk

[fantom]

.......or they would have been broke loooong ago

 

They did go broke, several times over.

 

Direct labor cost was at least $30/hr and after overhead, inventory, marketing, sales, management, R&D, allowances for liability claims, and a host of other expenses, that half a million dollar cost becomes clear, and that is before little items like debt reduction and profit are factored in.