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For months I have wanted to share my recent experience on this site which I have been reading, enjoying and getting a great deal of information from other Mooney owners over the last many months. I owned in a partnership a c182 for 25 years and had to sell it about 7 years ago. divorce and life changes. had always dreamt of getting a Mooney. Looked at my resources and age and said I could and should do it. Figured 10 years or so of health and at least I think mental acuity to continue flying and could afford it. besides, have a 22-year-old grandson that really wanted me to get it. I’ll tell more about this soon. we shopped together. So in March I found a 1966 M20E with Ray Jay. Good condition, low hours and reasonable price. Live in Spokane and thought I’d have to look and travel all over to find one, but one was in Moses Lake about 100 miles away. Bought it and started my adventure. I got a hold of an instructor and began my training and transition from the high wing, fixed gear experience. got checked out and flew a bit. Got about 25 hours in it and wanted to get it to my grandson to get his rating in it. This is what I want I really want to share. For those of you that have children and grandkids this is special. Love this young man. Grandson is a senior student at U of North Dakota in the aviation program. Already at 22 a commercial helicopter pilot with instructor rating but not fixed wing. So I’ve helped get the new generation into flying. So in June he and I flew it back to Grand Forks for me to leave it with him to get certified. A few problems and difficulties with the plane and hard time getting A&Ps to work on it took some time along with weather and his schedule kept it with him a bit longer than anticipated. Finally in December he got his check ride done and he is now in that unique arena of being dual certified. And in a Mooney. Then needed to get it back to Spokane/KCOE. With the winter weather. He and a friend got some good weather and got it to Billings. Left it there and went back to UND for finals. Then he, his wife and his instructor got in the car to come home for Christmas. Picked the plane up in Billings and got it to Missoula. I met them and then realized I really should not fly it to Spokane. It was night and not a good idea so drove back home. Last Wednesday we drove to Missoula and after a wait for bad weather finally was able to leave with a clear sky to the west. Flew on top to Sandpoint (KSZT) where we were able to descend through a hole and land. Took a rest and brought it to its home in KCOE. So i finally have it back and now after many months need to refamiliarize myself with instruction to get fly “my” plane again. Thanks for reading. I’ve enjoyed sharing this. Hope you like it. Dick

Picture of Grandson and pland

Lots of waiting on the engine…. Happy to report I finished the pilot yoke. Some of you guys may remember the copilot yoke I wrapped last year. I sandblast, clean, zinc, and prime before leather goes on. The mooney motif is Cnc laser etching. That’s a 3D printed iPhone holder that bolts in place of the clock.

Flying my M20K 231/Rocket 305 through eastern Washington this New Years weekend at 14500 MSL in VFR conditions, I felt some light turbulence. After about a minute, it occurred to me that the turbulence was not changing in amplitude like turbulence usually does. I considered whether it could be a small prop imbalance due to icing, but that would be strange since I had been in clear air since takeoff an hour earler. I considered whether it could be a cylinder misfiring, but EGTs were normal on all cylinders, and TIT remained where I had dialed it in. Manifold pressure remained at 30 inches, engine speed was still 2400 RPM, and I wasn't losing airspeed. Then the engine sneezed. That got my attention. I aimed towards the nearest airport, pulled out three inches of manifold pressure, pointed the nose down, and popped the speedbrakes. The engine sneezed one more time on descent, but I stayed focused enough to run all my checklists and grease the landing. Maintenance wasn't available on the weekend, so the aircraft sat on the ramp, shivering ignominiously in sub-20F temps. First thing Monday morning, we brought her into the hangar and immediately pulled a belly pan and opened the gascolator/sump to look at the fuel strainer screen. It was partially coated with what looked like a very thin paste - imagine spreading the thinnest possible layer of white or maybe grey toothpaste over the screen, then wiping it off so you could see through it. Over the next 30 seconds, in the warmish hangar, the paste melted and turned into beads of water. This topic has been covered on the forum in the past (e.g. So whats too cold for the plane and IPA Winter Ops), but I figured a fresh PIREP is always a good PSA. In reading through those topics, I noticed a couple comments that deserve a response. kortopates wrote "I really don't believe there is risk of fuel becoming saturated with water unless there is more moisture than just humid air in the tanks" but then, in a very gentlemanly and helpful way, he retracted his statement and shared Mike Busch's observations: He [MikeB] told me there is a real risk of dissolved (undrainable) water coming out of solution at low temperatures and freezing into ice crystals that can cause engine stoppage. He knows of several emergencies that occurred because of this, although it's definitely not common. Mike says these incidents don't occur in the wintertime as far as he knows. He says the major risk is taking off from a low altitude airport where the temperature and humidity are high and the fuel has become heat-soaked because the aircraft has been sitting in the sun for some hours, then climbing up to the Flight Levels where the OAT is very cold. It takes very hot fuel that can hold a lot more water in a dissolved state (as you pointed out before). The conditions leading to this issue have always been summertime conditions though, not winter. I will simply add that 1) it's winter now, and very very cold for the Pacific Northwest, and 2) I fueled (almost 60 gallons to top off) from an above-ground tank that was at below-freezing temperatures. Thus, I have an existence proof that it can happen in winter with cold fuel. jlunseth wrote of his experience never having this problem: "Fuel gets put on board at ground temps which are warm, and in relatively humid conditions. Then I go to altitude, stay there for 4 hours at -25C, and nothing happens. " Well, this happened to me after only 1 hour at altitude, and yes the OAT at that altitude was -25C (=-13F). I do have many hundreds of trouble-free hours flying this aircraft and another Mooney at temperatures significantly below freezing, though usually never lower than -10C. This happened to be the first time for me in this aircraft flying at -25C. I had done a thorough sump/drain before my flight and there was no evidence of liquid water at all. After observing the ice crystals in the strainer screen, we drained half a gallon from the wings and the sump and there was still no evidence of water. For those who haven't followed the threads, the culprit is water dissolved in the fuel, not free liquid water. 100LL can't dissolve much water, but water is not completely insoluble in fuel, and having tiny amounts of water (on the order of 30 parts per million) dissolved in the fuel is OK so long as it remains dissolved. Sub-freezing temperatures and nucleation sites (perhaps even localized turbulence as fuel flows through a fine mesh) will cause the water to precipitate out as microscopic ice crystals. Once an ice crystal forms, it's going to continue to grow as more fuel flows past it and dissolved water preferentially attaches itself to the crystal structure. These crystals can attach themselves to rough surfaces, get caught in fine mesh screens, or plug tiny injector orifices. For you chemists who are concerned about the proper use of the word "dissolved", I admit I don't know if the water is truly dissolved in the gasoline (= in solution on a molecular scale) or simply finely divided and in suspension (= extremely tiny water droplets that are still orders of magnitude bigger than molecular scale). AC 20-125 discusses "entrained" water and describes it as the latter. I will note that our white bucket test revealed the gasoline in my tanks to be both "clear=clean" and "bright=dry", with no cloudiness that would indicate entrained water. The solutions to the problem, as have been discussed elsewhere on this forum, are: 1) If the fuel is dry, ice can't form. Read AC 20-125 to understand the various ways water can get introduced into fuel. Use fuel from trustworthy tanking/pumping systems that are properly maintained. Make sure your gas cap O-rings are in good shape. Always sump your fuel to check for water. 2) If the fuel has water but remains above freezing as it travels through the aircraft fuel system, then small amounts (30 ppm or less) probably won't have any effect on operation. 3) Adding anhydrous isopropyl alcohol (IPA) to the fuel, in amounts not to exceed Mooney SI M20-64, encourages the water to dissolve into the IPA, which lowers the freezing point of the water, hopefully enough to prevent it from precipitating out as ice. 4) (my recommendation) After taking off from hot and humid conditions, or even cold and dry conditions, when flying for as little as M minutes in temperatures below N degrees C, choose an altitude and a route that give you good descent and landing options in case, like me, you encounter fuel system icing despite all the normal precautions. In my case, M was 60 and N was -25. I am congratulating myself on electing to perform that flight on that day only because it was VMC and, in the event of a problem, I wouldn't have to descend through several thousand feet of icing conditions. I am also considering myself lucky that it didn't happen 30 minutes later over the Cascade mountains.

The accident rate is better now than it was then so you can go ahead and keep on flying.

The drain only empties the sediment bowl which collects liquid water and particulates. During operation, fuel from the tanks fills the bowl and exits the top through a filter screen which is what collected the ice crystals. So, there is no flushing action through the screen by opening the drain. Skip

It’s always fun reading these threads. Like a bunch guys in a locker room comparing their manhood. The reality is that your accurate TAS will vary based on a bunch of different factors — even in an everything firewall forward situation. > the accuracy of your ASI (if you’re using that method) > the CAS correction > whether your prop is really spinning at 2700 > parasite drag caused by something dragging (flaps, gear, etc.) or something in the breeze (antenna) > whether your engine is actually able to produce full rated power > your weight, your plane’s weight > forward or aft CG > the quality of your paint > whether or not you are properly measuring it So, with that. My 1975 F is a 200 knot airplane take 45 to 50 knots or so… [emoji12] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Rigging problem resolved! Thanks to Andy and others who pointed me in the direction of AGL Aviation At Foothills Regional Airport in Morganton North Carolina. I flew up there yesterday and flew back as a happy camper. Lynn and Nathan knew exactly what to do. My ailerons were wrong, my elevators were at different angles, my rudder was not adjusted properly, my turn coordinator was off, and my flap and trim gauge was reading incorrectly. They went to work on it and by the time they were done I had a different airplane. Lynn went up with me to test everything at the end. I have had this plane for 15 years and the flight controls had never been adjusted. I should have done this years ago. It flies straighter, holds altitude better, and it is ten knots faster (NOT exaggerating.) For the first time ever I am getting indicated airspeeds that the POH says I should get. Can’t say enough good things about these guys! Thank you to them and thank you to you guys for sending me over there.

The super-absorbent polymer they use for jet fuel is great for absorbing water, but I recall there was an airline accident where the polymer broke out of a filter and contaminated the fuel. FWIW, miscibility is the same as dissolving, it's a truly homogenous solution. Water is barely miscible in gasoline (about a tablespoon in a tank's worth of avgas), so hard to imagine it could have been the culprit. Suspended or entrained water can be a lot more, though numbers are hard to come by and probably vary with a lot of factors. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC20-125.pdf

I just use Aero Cosmetics Wash n Wax. Lean the one piece belly against the wall and clean it in halves, left and right. Takes about 5 minutes. Easy to spot clean during the year on a creeper.

I don’t like EIS on G3X just because it takes up space and prefer my PFD panel to be larger than smaller.

Not necessarily. My #4 cylinder had a perpetual oily bottom spark plug starting at about 500 SMOH. I did the ring flush using Marvel Mystery Oil. It worked. Two years later, the bottom plug still looks like all the rest. It seems like a good thing to do to keep a small problem from becoming a large one.

They taylor the material for your plane to a degree. I brought my acclaim to one several years ago and I asked them to update it in the future and they said they would. covid knocked out the ones I scheduled since then. they did put me with an instructor with a lot of acclaim time. it was helpful and they do a lot of things for which you just seldom find time. if you have never been you should go, it is well worth it. Plus you get see a bunch of Mooney’s!!

Regarding whether to go with the Garmin EIS or separate JPI: I haven't been able to fly hardly at all since I got my plane and new panel back, so I have nothing to complain about with the Garmin EIS. On the one hand, so far, so good. The Garmin EIS on the G3X has the info I need and uses less panel real estate, has the Lean Assist that I'm adapting to after the JPI 700, and it has downloadable data (which I still have to learn). Also, the engine data is available right in front of me now instead of off to the side, but I could have gotten a JPI in the same neighborhood. On the other hand, JPI is an expert company in the EIS business, and I like their display. Plus, I could have re-used my existing probes, so maybe it would have cost a little less; hard to say. Also, I saw the comments about losing all my engine monitoring if the G3X display goes, but I also saw some mitigating comments on that score. On that last point, I guess I'm satisfied to make the leap of faith that the certified G3X will be suitably reliable. So like all this stuff, personal preference...... Probably not real illuminating. I'll have more of an opinion on the Garmin side of the equation in a month or two.

The Circling Minimums for LOC-D approach are higher than the circling minimums for GPS17. They would have had to level off at 1940ft which likely would not have been 500 below clouds to be legal VFR to cancel. Had they flown the LOC-D, they would have had to circle to 9L, 17, or go missed. Doing the GPS17 was more clever as it has lower minimums and would have either been a straight in or a VFR pattern 27R. Only it didn’t work out… Maybe they should have requested SPECIAL VFR!

Mine is a twist wing. I will try to get a picture that shows it.

Just give you an excuse to fly.........

I tried every trick I knew to fix this thing to no avail. The event viewer showed some windows updates about the time the thing stopped working but even going into regedit and making changes did not help. Seems the issue was more than just in Garmin's software. Garmin has now released something called Garmin Aviation Database Manager and it is quite different than the previous program. Installed it and I am now working again. Mike

This was confirmed to me recently by Hartzell (plane power) support; specifically 14.2V +/-.3. Plane power troubleshooting is here: https://planepower.aero/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Troubleshooting-Single-Engine-Externally-Regulated-Alternators.pdf

Devil's advocate - assuming you are talking about using this airplane for instruction, perhaps find an instructor that is comfortable teaching / flying without brakes on the right hand side? That is an awful lot of work to make one instructor happy.

Bottom line - the OP wants at least 10 hours of flight time on the plane to make up for 15 years of being on the ground. In my opinion, that's not enough... by a long factor. Here's an example. I know someone who bought a Mooney with about 400 hours/10 years on it. Even after 160 hours-in-a-year, there are still kinks to be worked out in that plane. So I'm told. I cannot even begin to imagine the metaphorical cobwebs sitting on an idle 15 year-zero hour plane. Also worrying is that an A&P couldn't get this plane back in the sky - a cylinder here, a transponder there, was the best they could muster. I suspect there's a lot more to be done. A new owner who is not an A&P will be at the mercy of a local shop or MSC to get this plane squared away - and given schedules in maintenance shops these days, that could set this OP back by months, even a year, to get in the air. Bottom line - if the OP wants to fly, I would suggest they avoid the 15 years of deferred maintenance and the almost-guaranteed extreme wait times to get this plane squared away - spend a bit more, and buy a plane that flies 100+ hours/year. That way, the OP will be able to sleep soundly at night knowing they will 'probably' be able to fly that much right away themselves too.

I may be getting my plane painted and I’m looking for paint scheme ideas. here is one I like.

So I know it’s been forever and a day since I’ve posted a video, well 288 days to be exact. But here is part 1 of how I change my oil. I’ve been out of flying since July of 21’ because of a runaway 172 that hit my plane. But this is the first of some videos I’ve had to post. I will be starting a series on the crash, dealing with the insurance company and hopefully someday the F’ing repair of N201NU. Hope you enjoy part 1 and part 2 will be dropping Thursday. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the plane was not ADS-B equipped, flight aware would only capture IFR flights and those using flight following. The same would be true if equipped with ADS-B using 978 UAT technology. The lack of flight aware data does not indicate that the plane hasn't been flying regularly.

It probably has to do with the surface of paint getting rougher as it ages and erodes. Wax would even out that roughness a bit.

Please tell me you’re not going to use original colors of 66 era…which are often browns/yellows/ugly greens. And yes, I don’t like earth tones.

I find Carbon-X takes the exhaust residue off easily without any special treatment to the belly skin.

I had an EDM 700 and installed a G3X Touch with EIS. I reused the JPI EGT probes and JPI CHT probes for Cyl 1, 2, 4. Cyl 3 had the factory CHT probe and a 3/8" ring probe for the EDM, so I had to buy another JPI CHT bayonet probe for cyl 3. I kept the same Flowscan fuel flow transducer. So, the only other transducers I had to buy were for RPM, MAP, oil temp, oil pressure and fuel pressure. Personally, I'm not worried about losing engine data if the GDU or GEA quit. I figure that is no more likely to happen than the JPI dying. And, with a NA engine, I can operate safely without any gauges anyway. I really like having the MAP and RPM located close to the ADI. Skip

Night, weather, and low vis make C to L very challenging in a jet Used to have to do them in the sim for check rides at 1000&3 in a 757 at IND for one particular FAA designee. He was a real A** Nobody liked him. Ideally you cross over at 90 degrees to the runway and go straight ahead for the radius of the Circle (at 150 kts that's about 3/4 mile) Then you start your standard rate turn for 270 degrees so you end up on the runway center line. You also need to go downwind far enough past the end of the runway so you are far enough out to make a controlled rate of decent (stabilized approach. 300' per mile)to make the landing. So if you are 900' above the runway you need to be almost 3 miles out to start your decent (maybe 1 full minute in this case?) You might cheat by starting lower at the last 90 degrees of turn toward center line if the airport is well in sight. Right at visibility distance limit AND with 3 miles vis that doesn't mean that the airport will be CLEARLY in sight. Its probably out of sight in reality. And the runway lighting was not ALSF by any means so finding it in low vis and rain among all the other lights is a B^&*(%. Hence asking for the runway lights. Its a very precise maneuver in a jet We did it in practice in 20 and 30 Lears decades ago. All timed and under the hood. It works out if done correctly and with practice. Ad hoc? It ain't gonna work out to well In the 757 you draw a line out from the runway centerline on the FMC and see were you were in relation to it even if the airport wasn't too visible. Airspeed control in a jet is vital as is evident. Bank angles have to be maintained perfectly at low speed circling. Stall/spin turning to final happens all the time even in our small airplanes.

Great reason to meet up with a fellow 'mooniac' ;o) -Don

Don, Thanks. Actually, the gurus working on it are a full avionics shop. (Which makes it even more unbelievable that we are having the problem.) I have a hard time envisioning that looking at yours would help troubleshoot mine. But they are going to reinstall the unit tomorrow and look again. I will tell them about your generous offer. I will let you know if they would like to look. Why don't you text me your number (214) 207-6744 and when I go out in the morning, I could call you if it looks helpful. Better yet, why don't you plan a flight to RBD and I will buy you lunch. then if they need to look at your plane, it will be convenient.

That’s sucks your bird was damaged, even worse when the Ins Co tries to weasel out of the repairs. Never been a fan of using compressed air to drain the filter, big chance of blowing crap into the engine, would rather clean up what little oil drips out. Running the engine does make it drain better but the better benefit is getting the contaminates suspended in the oil and out of the engine

I don’t have the stc paperwork to loose weight. I might need to get a field approval.

Regarding meeting TBO, there are more issues than engine compression and oil burn. Things like crankshaft counterweights. When I bought my J it had a high time engine that ran great, had good compressions, low oil burn, fuel flow to specs and in every regard was a great engine. But during an annual the MSC said "it has a vibration we cannot balance with prop weights." Friend of mine is an expert on rotating machinery vibration, so we glued a 3 - axis set of accelerometers and logged the data. It had 1 ips vibration and a good engine can be balanced to be in the range of about .2 ips. I talked to quite a few people (engine builders, etc.) and their thought was the tungsten counterweights in the crankshaft start moving and cause the vibration. The fix is to tear it down and rebuild the crank. I opted for factory new as at the time I had a good core and with the economy in meltdown it was available with minimum downtime. I bought the airplane with a high time engine, and knew repair or replacement was in the future. It just came sooner than I wished. Moral of the story is if the plane looks good, have the balance checked during the pre-buy. Mike

I agree, I was trying to explain to the above folks why the lear crew wouldn’t use it as a straight in… because as we both said, it’s much too steep (if you don’t start descending to the runway before the step down).

did the twist wing have anything to do with the development of the Mustang? that was the time of its development and it had it.

175knots = 201mph The whole 201mph thing is a best case scenario, brand new, clean, M20J at full power at sea level. That’s not a real world cruise speed. And the speed difference comes from the cowl, not the engine. Windshield and inner gear doors help a little as well.

A J is an honest 150 kt airplane. A stock E is an honest 145 kt airplane. There are significant aero differences between the two.

You aren't going to get 175 KTAS out of a J in the real world. Likewise, an E isn't as slow as you write. Real world, the E will be about a 150 KTAS airplane and the J will be 155 KTAS. A specific example of each will do a bit better or worse but those are pretty solid numbers for planning.

You need an digital voltage meter and the troubleshooting chart from plane power or Zeftronics. Be very skeptical of opinions on what it is and/or replacing parts because lots of mechanics don’t know how to troubleshoot this. Its in the troubleshooting, but definitely check the bus voltage, input voltage to the Voltage regulator, and the field wire voltage. Difference between those will point you where to look next. Field voltage will be less than the other 2 by a volt or two, but the other two should be almost exactly the same. It’s on the troubleshooting guide.

The plane power voltage regulator is adjustable. I'd put it at 14.0 to 14.1 V, The amps may be varying if you have strobe light when it is charging between flashes

Guy flew 7 legs in the past week, it wasn’t sitting idle He’s active on POA.

Oscar, I have not flown to Jamaica so unfamiliar with those paperwork requirements. I do know that you will need an overflight permit from Cuba. Because US does not have banking relations with Cuba you need a company who can arrange payment. I would try Jim Parker at Caribbean Flying Adventures. His website is Caribbeanflyingadventures.com Jim can help you with all the Jamaican paperwork also.

A lot of cool panel images in this thread, all of which I like. I just finished something similar (photos attached): G3X, GTN 750, GI 275 (2), GTX 345, GMA 350, GFC 500. One thing not apparent is that I got the AOA indicator, too, which will display on the G3X. Still need to calibrate that in flight. Regarding the EIS, I'm happy with the Garmin, so far, but if I were doing it again, I would consider going with the separate JPI. Regarding G5 vs. GI 275 , the avionics guy I worked with thought highly of the GI 275 and its suitability for my setup, so that tipped the scales for me - I didn't research that piece much on my own. Regarding the placards, after seeing the comment above, I need to go back to my POH and verify they're all there. I wanted the radios stacked with the autopilot on the bottom, but there was some clearance issue with my setup that prevented that. I had an SL30 nav/comm slim-fit that I sort of wish I had keep in there, but I kept the GNS 430 instead thinking I can replace it with something newer and standard sized at some point. The quoted 6-8 weeks for the panel work turned into four months, which I attribute to too much business and too little labor at that shop; they juggled work and planes. It was annoying, but I never really expected them to hit the lead-time.

@DonMuncy @Microkit If the output of the LHS is solid when bench tested, then it seems driving the KMA-24 is, somehow, weakening the signal. You have tried two inputs, DME and ADF, with no luck. I assume that the NAV and COM audio goes through the KMA-24 and work correctly? If so, then do you know if the shop hooked DIRECTLY to the KMA-24 inputs, or did they use 'existing' wiring that was left over? Some work, but you could try temporarily removing a COM input and using that input to test (since you know that input works properly) Let me know what has been tried (Nidal). Also, not sure what the impedance of a KMA-24 audio input is vs. newer panels (and output impedance/drive capability of the LHS)

You could also send a note to Jimmy Garrison and Gmaxamericanaircraft.com and tell them what you are looking for. They may be able to keep an eye out for what you are looking for.

I wısh that too..I have talked with Mr.Monroy like 2 months ago..his sound was fine nut still struggling with the stroke for sure..not easy.. He said he might be able to do it next summer but no promises.. Hope he will be better soon.

Hopefully this is on-topic enough, but I saw a ton of Mooneys in Santa Fe last Saturday. After finding this thread, I'm guessing the PPP explains why they were all in town. Anyway, I caught some video of the Mooneys at the airport and thought I'd post it in case anyone was interested: Tail numbers include: N93KS, N58144, N618TG, N304MA, N1156Z, N257KW, N30EV, N59FM, N201FQ

Thank you David. I now have this copy and I am ready to pass it on the the next in line. @hammdo? I would also be happy to scan this to a PDF, but it is copyrighted, and I don't know if I would be running afoul of those that care... Would the copyright pass to Coys' estate? Is there anyone here that could answer this? Thanks!