IFR Training

[usafhaynes1]

I've successfully (barely) passed my IFR written exam.  Now on to the oral/checkride.  If anyone has any pointers, comments about preparation for either event, I'm listening!

I'm repairing a KI-209 to get my Mooney IFR certified as well.

[Jeff_S]

There are many threads on this topic so you would do well to search some of them out, as they contain good advice.  My only advice from experience is to prepare for it like you would a flight, and expect to behave like you would on a real flight.  And if you get flustered, as can often happen in the air, ask your "ATC" examiner for a vector and altitude that you can fly while you sort things out in your head. This is exactly what you would do in a real instrument condition, so they should accept that.

 

I didn't do this when I got flustered trying to fly back toward a VOR on missed approach holding pattern, so after 10 minutes of winding my way around the county he graciously decided to terminate the exam (yes, I got the pink slip) and then taught me stuff my instructor hadn't. It was humiliating but a good learning experience, and I went back the next week and passed with no problem.

[John Pleisse]

Label your ADF "INOP", speak your thought process out loud every step of the way, so the examiner/instructor can evaluate your thought process. Let them know this intention. Early in your primary instrument work, take very seriously precise control of the aircraft with a detailed PAC chart and never deviate from it unless bucking a headwind. Practice many IFR maneuvering circuits demonstrating a/c control before you start approaches.

[OR75]

if you really barelly passed the written, you can expect some thorough questioning on the ground.  The wriiten test report should have the categories you missed and I believe the examiner is expected to  review those. 

[trey]

Congrats on passing the written!  I just passed my IFR written as well, but I haven't started IFR flight training yet so no real pointers to offer.

 

Good luck on the check ride!  I look forward to a PIREP.

[usafhaynes1]

I have 9 hours left on IFR training with my CFI.  I'm flying in a G1000 Cessna and my instructor has repeatedly pointed out that training me is "boring" since I haven't needed any help in navigation, situational awareness, flying multiple types of approaches nor did I have any issues when he pulled the AHRS breaker and had me fly analog gauges on ILS approach. 

My CFI only allowed me to use the autopilot on the first two flights.  Afterwards, all stick and rudder unless I was programming in new nav information/approaches.

 

The flying portion has been uneventful.  No issues with holds, flight planning, flying or instrument interpretation.  I've always been able to tell him exactly where I am on an approach or on the airway without using the G1000 maps (cfi zooms that out to infinity).  I do use my ipad with foreflight for ifr airways and approach plates. 

 

The flying part is no issue.  The oral exam is what will break me.

 

The last thought, and I'll bring this up with my CFI, is that we haven't really practiced any emergency procedures that I've been reading about.  No lost comms, what will you do.  No lost multiple instruments, nothing other than AHRS loss.  I think that the last 9 hours should focus on everything going murphy.

 

Thoughts?

[pirate]

One of the most important things to remember on your check ride....

R E L A X

[thinwing]

some very good advise...I am also surprised from above advice just how much things have changed.Especially for the guys getting their rating in technically advanced aircraft....in my day...there would be no auto pilot use allowed at all...especially when changing frequencies or setting up for approach....I think its up to the examinar but that give me a altitude/vector till I can figure out where i am wouldnt work..It would and did equal an instant pink slip on the exam...or least did for me...but I had a hold entry 2 min after takeoff and the examinar failed one of the vor recievers....result....spagetti in the sky!!!!Any way good luck and if the examiner will allow movingmap use ,/ap use while multitasking..more power to you...it was and is the hardest rating...kpc

[DrBill]

Here's a link to a document I wrote right after taking my Checkride

Enjoy:

Sadly, Ms. Schmertzler passed away last October.....

BILL

http://www.creativecomputersolutions.com/flying/MYIFRCHECKRIDE.pdf

[carusoam]

Nicely written, Dr. Bill!

2 hrs is not a lot of time to get really creative on an IFR check ride.

Best regards,

-a-

[danb35]

Thinwing, not sure when you got your instrument ticket.  Under the current PTS, you're required to use the autopilot for at least one approach, if you have a suitable autopilot.  For the rest of the ride, it's between you and the examiner.  Of course, many vintage Mooneys have a full-time wing leveler installed, which makes holding at least an approximate heading pretty easy.

[midlifeflyer]

if you really barelly passed the written, you can expect some thorough questioning on the ground.  The wriiten test report should have the categories you missed and I believe the examiner is expected to  review those. 

Depending on what subjects were missed, it can be a bigger issue for the checkride than Examiner focus for the oral. There are subjects that can only be tested on the ground, like weather. But there are so many subjects that are intrinsic to IFR flight that knowledge gaps can show up in flight as well. IMO, IFR flight is approximately 10% about the flying and 90% about the procedures.  If the knowledge gap is in those procedural areas, it can easily cause a flight bust. 

 

Of course, that's assuming the missed subjects (1) are those that will affect the flight and (2) evidence a knowledge gap rather than just a bad day or difficulties with standardized testing.

[usafhaynes1]

Practice tests ranged from 70 to 90. CFI seems confident I know the information cold. Guess we will see. I will finish my 9 hours needed and a check ride no later than 13 may.

[flyboy0681]

I have 9 hours left on IFR training with my CFI.  I'm flying in a G1000 Cessna and my instructor has repeatedly pointed out that training me is "boring" since I haven't needed any help in navigation, situational awareness, flying multiple types of approaches nor did I have any issues when he pulled the AHRS breaker and had me fly analog gauges on ILS approach. 

 

 

Sounds like you are an aviation "natural". I didn't know they actually existed.

 

While I haven't struggled, it's taken me a lot longer than I thought it would, even though I got a 97 on my written.

[BigTex]

I have 9 hours left on IFR training with my CFI. I'm flying in a G1000 Cessna and my instructor has repeatedly pointed out that training me is "boring" since I haven't needed any help in navigation, situational awareness, flying multiple types of approaches nor did I have any issues when he pulled the AHRS breaker and had me fly analog gauges on ILS approach. My CFI only allowed me to use the autopilot on the first two flights. Afterwards, all stick and rudder unless I was programming in new nav information/approaches. The flying portion has been uneventful. No issues with holds, flight planning, flying or instrument interpretation. I've always been able to tell him exactly where I am on an approach or on the airway without using the G1000 maps (cfi zooms that out to infinity). I do use my ipad with foreflight for ifr airways and approach plates. The flying part is no issue. The oral exam is what will break me. The last thought, and I'll bring this up with my CFI, is that we haven't really practiced any emergency procedures that I've been reading about. No lost comms, what will you do. No lost multiple instruments, nothing other than AHRS loss. I think that the last 9 hours should focus on everything going murphy. Thoughts?

I'm working on my IR and for me, process and procedures is my biggest challenge. So I can't separate IFR flying and the associated procedures. So if you are struggling with the written and your instructor is "bored", I would change instructors.

[flyboy0681]

I'm working on my IR and for me, process and procedures is my biggest challenge. So I can't separate IFR flying and the associated procedures. So if you are struggling with the written and your instructor is "bored", I would change instructors.

 

 Ditto

[201er]

The written and oral are the hardest part because for the most part they have nothing to do with the actual process of flying IFR. I was shocked at how unprepared I was for actual IFR flying from the process after I got my ticket. Yet the simulated instrument flight training was very beneficial. It's hard to remember how to enter a hold or how to fly a no gyros VOR approach cause it's something you never really end up doing (hopefully). I don't remember the last time I flew a non ILS/LPV approach that wasn't for practice.

 

Good luck. All the fun is still to come. All the scariness too.

[PTK]

Practice tests ranged from 70 to 90. CFI seems confident I know the information cold. Guess we will see. I will finish my 9 hours needed and a check ride no later than 13 may.

It doesn't matter what the CFI thinks on your knowledge. He is not taking the test. It's what you think that matters and how prepared you feel. Are you happy with those scores? Seems like there's lots of room for improvement. The difference between a score of 100% and a lower one is directly proportional to your knowledge of the material.

[usafhaynes1]

I appreciate the concern.  I'd have to agree that multiple items on the test were asking questions that I won't actually use.  An example is an ADF, my mooney does not have one, nor do I ever intend on installing one.  A couple of the chart questions wanted to glean info that was much easier to find elsewhere, rather than the way the test presented it.

I talked to my instructor this weekend and vocalized precisely my concerns that I felt most of the training was "sanitized" without having to constantly troubleshoot, i.e., am I prepared to aviate, navigate and communicate when Murphy joins.  His response was that every time he asks where we were, what was going on, I knew where we were and at what stage we were in, and especially reminded me that we were constantly having off topic conversations during the approaches and that I was able to keep the approach and discuss the topics without losing focus.  Apparently most students have issues just concentrating on the approach, much less responding to any other type stimulus which is sort of meant to mimic outside factors breaking the pilot's concentration.  I'd not thought of it that way.

 

Needless to say, we will be practicing for the checkride in the next 9 flights.  Unfortunately, raining here for the next 3-4 days.  I've ordered the PTS and will study that vigorously.  I'm really only worried about the oral part, not the actual checkride.

 

Thanks.

[bnicolette]

 

Needless to say, we will be practicing for the checkride in the next 9 flights.  Unfortunately, raining here for the next 3-4 days. 

 

Thanks.

 

Ummmmm.  It's IFR/IMC training isn't it?  Sounds like perfect training wx?

 

KORF 291139Z 2912/3012 13005KT 5SM -RA BR SCT007 BKN040 OVC060

TEMPO 2912/2914 3SM -RA BR BKN007

FM291400 13011G18KT 3SM -RA BR OVC007

FM291600 16015G23KT 3SM -RA OVC007

FM300000 10007KT 4SM BR OVC007

[midlifeflyer]

Ummmmm.  It's IFR/IMC training isn't it?  Sounds like perfect training wx?

 

KORF 291139Z 2912/3012 13005KT 5SM -RA BR SCT007 BKN040 OVC060

TEMPO 2912/2914 3SM -RA BR BKN007

FM291400 13011G18KT 3SM -RA BR OVC007

FM291600 16015G23KT 3SM -RA OVC007

FM300000 10007KT 4SM BR OVC007

Sounds just about ideal. One of my best training flights involved a real missed approach off an ILS. 

[usafhaynes1]

Yeah...but to do practice checkride tests, you have to have VFR weather!!!  Believe me, I'd rather do real world IMC conditions during flight; invaluable experience.

[bnicolette]

Yeah...but to do practice checkride tests, you have to have VFR weather!!! Believe me, I'd rather do real world IMC conditions during flight; invaluable experience.

Well that's just not so. It would be my humble advice to you to get as much real imc with your instructor as you can. There is just no comparison to using foggles and real imc. If things get a little "weird" while simulating imc you can "peek" and get that "warm and fuzzy" feeling back. Not so in real world imc. This is the perfect kind of weather for practicing. Its not a perfectly calm day and not so bad (ceiling wise) that if you had a mechanical issue you're screwed.

There is an extremely fine line in aviation when it comes to ego. Be careful.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Marauder]

Well that's just not so. It would be my humble advice to you to get as much real imc with your instructor as you can. There is just no comparison to using foggles and real imc. If things get a little "weird" while simulating imc you can "peek" and get that "warm and fuzzy" feeling back. Not so in real world imc. This is the perfect kind of weather for practicing. Its not a perfectly calm day and not so bad (ceiling wise) that if you had a mechanical issue you're screwed.

There is an extremely fine line in aviation when it comes to ego. Be careful.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I absolutely agree with Bret. I was fortunate that I logged actual during my IFR training. Even with the experience of flying in the clouds before my checkride, it was still a humbling experience realizing how much I still didn't know about flying in real IMC. The first time you experience the "leans" in the clouds, it should be a wake-up call about the fine line Bret mentions.

[BigTex]

If my CFI has his way, we'd do all of the training under actual IFR conditions.  Outside of icing conditions and/or thunderstorm activity, we go flying.  I know some instructors are not confident in their ability to train in acutal conditions due to their lack of experience.  I hope that's not the case with your instructor.