Zephyr engines

[bd32322]

How many of you have done a zephyr engine overhaul? What has you experience been with reaching TBO?

I am thinking of getting a quality field overhaul from zephyr since I currently have a lycon rebuilt with first run 800 hour cylinders with good comps.

I was asking in another thread whether i should overhaul and sell or sell and have the new owner overhaul. I flip flopped a bit and I do want the aircraft to move somewhat fast. So I thought I should start researching overhaul options.

Thanks

[Alan Fox]

People will buy price , sell it as it is and it will sell faster , (although it will be 15K or better less.......)

[David Mazer]

Zephyr did my rebuild a couple years ago and I haven't had any problems but I also haven't been able to put on a lot of hours yet either.  I would definitely tell you not to rebuild prior to selling.  You won't increase the price equal to your cost (roughly 85% is the usual wisdom).

[KSMooniac]

Charlie Melot is a regular participant on at least the AOPA Forum and seems very highly regarded.  His shop has been "featured" in stories over the years in Aviation Consumer as well.  I can't say I've read a bad thing about him or his shop in my 6+ years of paying attention.  Having his name on a field overhaul would be worth more than a generic field overhaul IMO, but a non-savvy buyer might not give it much notice.

 

I have no experience with him as a customer so I can't comment first-hand.  If I were closer to him geographically I'd certainly consider using him for my keeper M20J.

[bd32322]

Zephyr did my rebuild a couple years ago and I haven't had any problems but I also haven't been able to put on a lot of hours yet either.  I would definitely tell you not to rebuild prior to selling.  You won't increase the price equal to your cost (roughly 85% is the usual wisdom).

I agree but I dont want it to take a long time to sell and I dont mind taking a hit. I wasnt expecting to recuperate the cost of a rebuild.

David - good to know you are having no problems. Hopefully more people will chime in with hours and their experience with zephyr. What made you select zephyr if you dont mind me asking. I thought of zephyr because i have heard their name on this forum a decent number of times.

[laytonl]

I also recommend Certified Engines in Opa Locka Fl. They have done two engines for me, an o-320 and and io-360 and haven't had problems with either. The owner, Allen Weiss, is quoted often in Aviation Consumer too. Lee

[David Mazer]

I selected Zephyr on a combination of price, quality reputation, and perceived value.

[bd32322]

Thanks for the responses ... I checked with Penn Yan too .. Unfortunately they are about 4k more for the same type of overhaul.

I was gonna check with mattituck too but for some reason their online engine quote tool only shows continental engines.

[fantom]

Zephyr, Penn and Certified are all fine engine shops that I only hear good reports about.

[jetdriven]

I selected Zephyr on a combination of price, quality reputation, and perceived value.

 

The sole reason we went Lycoming factory overhaul was the roller tappets. I am convinced Zephyr can build an engine as good or better than Lycoming. If we prop struck or ran out the engine we have now, I am pretty sure we are sending it the Charlie.

[Steve65E-NC]

Again, for a reasonably fast sell, I think the paint job and paint condition are more important than anything about the engine.  Anyone will realize that your low time first run, good compression,  cylinders will reflect in the cost and quality of an overhaul (when the buyer chooses to have it done).  What is the condition of the paint job? 

[gregwatts]

With all due respect.......I think the general consensus is to sell the plane as is. A savvy buyer may not have an interest in a "field OH". That may actually cost you a buyer. List it....and see what activity you get....and if you have to go to plan B, then do so.

I am in the political party that endorses selling it as is.....and price it right!

 

 

 

My opinion only!

[fantom]

I agree with Greg. Put it on market now 'as is' then give potential buyers a nice engine allowance in the asking/selling price. This way buyers have options. If it doesn't move, put the big bucks into it with an expectation of only getting fraction of it back.

[aviatoreb]

I am hearing on this thread the phrase "field overhaul" being used in a manner I am not used to.  I have used the phrase field overhaul as meaning ... overhauled at the field.  Like by a local shop that is a general shop or even an fbo.  These can be quite good but also quite not so good.  It is hit or miss depending on the AP who is doing the work.  The knock is that a general mechanic may not have overhauled too many engines in a career and maybe never one like yours.

 

On the other end of the spectrum is a factory zero time engine.

 

In between is a top shop, like Pen Yann, Zephry, Signature, Victor, and so forth.  From my perspective there are roughly a dozen top shops in the country.   They do nothing but engines all day long.  I am 100% confident in these shops as doing a job at least as good as the factory and in some of the shops you may get better work than the factory.  For example, TCM cylinders are not so good when new so it is not a bad idea to have them reworked before a major overhaul to better than new spec which I do not think is something a zero time tcm would give you.  Or check out victor aviation - they have some really unique and arguably good engineering methods they bring to an overhaul that the factory does not offer.

 

bd32322, if it were me, I would not overhaul before selling. I would sell as is, which is a nice flying plane.  If you price it right it will sell.  I would look at asking prices of airplanes in your year with a new or near new engine and the drop your price 15 or 20k.  I bet it will move.  And you will save money since it gets close to 30k to do the overhaul.  And in return some buyers will want to overhaul to their spec.  Others will want to try to get the bargain and fly that engine many hours past tbo.  You would price out those guys if you overhaul.

[bd32322]

Again, for a reasonably fast sell, I think the paint job and paint condition are more important than anything about the engine.  Anyone will realize that your low time first run, good compression,  cylinders will reflect in the cost and quality of an overhaul (when the buyer chooses to have it done).  What is the condition of the paint job? 

The paint is original but in good condition .. (its better than any of the paint jobs t my iport, except the new paint jobs). So I prefer to leave the paint as is, to show I am not hiding something else by painting over it and also to show that it was always hangared and cared for etc

[bd32322]

Okay I guess I'll try and sell as is first

If it doesnt move, I can always overhaul later!

But about the zephyr shop, I am basically not hearing anything bad about them and they will be my first choice if and when it comes to an overhaul.

Thanks everyone!

[jetdriven]

You have two issues, maybe three. One, near-runout engine. Two, old paint. It may show nice, but its not going to help your situation. Three, the panel. If you have old radios and no Garmin 430 or better, thats a hit. Its very difficult to move an airplane that needs all three. All buyers see is "I have to spend 50-60 grand on this airplane soon."   It may require some ridiculous discounting to get it sold. Jimmy at All American is really good at this, perhaps he can offer advice or help you sell it.

[bd32322]

Paint is again something I can wait on I guess if it doesn't sell. It's in a condition where a buyer will think I do not need to paint this just now, but I can later if I have the money :-)

Wishful thinking :-) but lets see what happens.

I have 430 and altitude hold along with kap 100.

[carusoam]

A good discussion with Jimmy would open many opportunities. He buys and sells Mooneys and is most knowledgable on how to get the most for what you have.

He can make recomendations on what to add, where to get it from what shops to use.

If you are looking to move up, this would be a helpful discussion.

Buying and selling machinery is a complex (expensive) process. Doing it without professional help is not good for your wallet. Imagine for a moment, flying a Mooney without any previous experience or training. Maybe you read a book or asked some questions on a reputable website...

You can contact AAA by phone or by email to get started. Then compare with other brokers for a second opinion.

If you have bought and sold 10 airplanes in your life already, or are responsible for $10MM sales budget for industrial equipment, then you have the flexibility and skill to go on your own.

Knowledge is power. Know what you have. Know what you want. Know where you want to go. Know how you're going to get there. Know your limits.

Seek professional advice.

Or go it alone if you're feeling "lucky".

People are starting to buy things again, interest rates are low, stock markets are recovering, house are gaining value. You have a Mooney. The sun is shining.

What better situation could you ask for?

Best regards,

-a-

[marks]

I was in a plane that crashed.  It was in terrible condition, but at the right price it sold in a week.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Zephyr is great.  But I'd just sell as-is.

[John Pursell]

My only question is the engine airworthy? I'm assuming that the engine had a top overhaul 800 hrs ago. It may be harder to sell the plane with the engine in an unairworthy condition as opposed to just being high time.

John

[bd32322]

My only question is the engine airworthy? I'm assuming that the engine had a top overhaul 800 hrs ago. It may be harder to sell the plane with the engine in an unairworthy condition as opposed to just being high time.

John

Yes airworthy and yes had a top at mid life.

I'll try and sell as is first.

[Alan Fox]

If memory serves TCM bought Mattituck and then closed it down a year or so ago. So what you are seeing on their site is probably actually coming from TCM in Mobile and not Mattituck in New York. It's a shame. They had a great reputation there.

I dealt with Mattituck a few years ago , and had a real shitty experience , There is a reason they are no longer.....That being said , I dont think Continental had anything to do with thier demise..

[RangerJim]

Cogent advice by carusoam.  Jimmy and David at AAA are two straight down the line guys that have forgotten more about the business side of Mooney aircraft ownership than most of us will ever be in a position to learn.