bradcarr Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 Ok I am going to do my best not to call anyone out here, point fingers or anything. I am very new to plane ownership. I'm going to post what has happened and then ask for advice for my future Annual/repairs etc. An annual was done as part of the prebuy for my plane. Things were found that were not airworthy issues and everything found weas repaired based on what was listed. Obviously I couldn't tell you anything as I'm just now learning about my plane, its parts etc. Had the guy told me my flux capacitor needed replacing I'd have probably written a check. No doubt I want this to change and it has already just in the last 2 weeks. Now to my main question/issue. The plane was bought and immediately taken to another shop for avionics upgrades. I don't know this shop from adam either, but I will say the owner has been nothing but communicative and helpful with any question i have had about anything. So my question is was my plane just "glossed over" at the annual or is this normal. Avionics shops first message was "were you having trouble with the aileron being tough to turn? I had no clue as my CFI had to fly it. Pics he sent had a sheet metal screw dragging against the push pull rod on the left side. Next was, "did they say anything about the left wing leaking? Sent the pic of the top of the wing, said it isn't dripping on ground but wanted me to know Next was the pic of the uncovered throttle cable, said it suppose to be inside that rod but isn't Then came the "you need an ELT antenna its broke off" Lastly was the prop governor cable with much the same issue. He said "someone used safety wire to hold the sleeve up in the past" I'm asking because none of these things were mentioned on the annual. My question is 2 fold. Should they have been? if they shouldn't have been then how on earth do I ever find these types of things I'd prefer not to have on my plane. If they should have been then my 2nd part of this question is how on earth do I go about finding a shop for an annual where this wouldn't happen? I mean i'm not gonna know unless i go to taking a plane apart (which I can't do nor should do) and finding these types of things (which i wont do as I don't have a clue yet what is right or wrong" sorry for this long post I've got a year to learn more and get it to the right place. Just looking for guidance from all you pros here. Thank you for everything.
toto Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 These things all look pretty obvious to me, and I would expect a competent shop to have noted them on the annual.
47U Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 (edited) 13 hours ago, bradcarr said: I'm asking because none of these things were mentioned on the annual. My question is 2 fold. Should they have been? if they shouldn't have been then how on earth do I ever find these types of things I'd prefer not to have on my plane. Welcome, bradcarr. Sorry you’re having these issues, but the longer you own your plane, the newer it will be… someone here (I think) says that. The gouges on the aileron rod look pretty fresh. If the wing-to-body fairing were removed during the annual inspection (or prebuy), and then reinstalled with the screw that’s too long, that would be an explanation. The drag on movement might be negligible and not heard in a noisy environment. It’s still not right by any means, but putting panels on might be the job of the less experienced mechanic’s helper. The damage should be checked for depth within tolerance, any burrs removed, and some primer applied. and the correct length screws installed. The fuel leaks on top of the wing should be (should have been) investigated. It doesn’t look like ‘normal’ fuel stains to me anyway. Generally they are either blue streaking/stains or if very, very slight seepage, brown stains. It almost looks like someone rubbed some type of oyltite product on the surface as a (temporary) repair. The ELT TRANSPONDER antenna broken… very unfortunate. I’m no expert in avionics, but I don’t know if I’ve seen an ELT TRANSPONDER antenna mounted on the top of the fuselage. And the skin in the area has been touched up, poorly by appearances as it’s now peeling paint. It looks like there’s a blade antenna in the ELT TRANSPONDER/DME frequency installed behind the exhaust, on the bottom of the fuselage (blurry in the picture of the wing-to-body fairing) in the more traditional ELT TRANSPONDER antenna location… I’d investigate what the broken antenna is hooked up to. As far as the throttle/prop cables… I’d recommend replacement. It would have been nice if the prebuy and annual would have made a note, but I think it’s time. McFarlane is the place I’d go for cables. The oil cooler hose on the firewall behind the prop cables support looks suspect, too. Check the logs for install dates on all the hoses. Where are you based? Post some pics of your new to you bird. You’re asking the right questions and that gains you the knowledge to be an experienced owner. Stay involved with your airplane and you’ll be fine… keep us updated on your progress. There’s a lot of really smart people here so don’t be afraid to ask the questions. Wishing you good luck in with future ownership challenges. Edited August 31 by 47U Corrections 1
IvanP Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 (edited) @bradcarrWelcome to MS and to Mooney ownership. Sorry to hear about your issues with your new toy. The issues you describe should have been identified during the pre-buy/annual. Mooneys are known for tight spaces and using screws that are too long can cause issues with control rods. I suggest that you check all the inspection plates on botom of wings. I think that the second or third inspection plate from the root of the wing needs tohave short screws to avoid rubbing on the aileron control rod. Ideally, the pre-buy would have been done by mechanic of your choice, preferably someone with Mooney experience and with you present, but that may not always be possible. I could not be present at pre-buy for my first Mooney and there were some things missed that later cost me money and I could have negotiated price concessions. When I was buying my current plane, the seller was kind enough to let me and my mechanic use his hangar and tools to do the prebuy. We found couple of things that needed to be addressed, agreed on reasonable concession, shook hands and closed the deal. In fact, the seller helped us to get parts and fix couple of things right on the spot as we were doing the pre-buy. The fuel leak can be a challenge to fix right. Did the logs show any recent work on the tanks? Edited August 31 by IvanP
Joshua Blackh4t Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 So far there is nothing to stress too much about, although a professional assessment of the damage to that aileron rod is called for. Tank patching, replacing cables etc are all relatively normal. (Not saying cheap, just a common expense that was likely to happen at some point of your ownership) However, the fact that they weren't picked up earlier is slightly worrying. I would suggest you find whoever is going to be your future mechanic, and pay them for a bit of time to check it out for other things that might have been missed. Not a full PPI but just professional opinion. Ask your avionics shop to recommend someone because they seem to be doing a good job of being professional. 1
Fly Boomer Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 8 hours ago, bradcarr said: An annual was done as part of the prebuy for my plane. You already have received good comments above, but I will add my opinion that it is unusual, if not impossible, for every flaw to be found on pre-buy. Especially if it was not done by one of the well-known Mooney experts. I would also opine that it's not super unusual for things to be missed at annual -- particularly the first couple of inspections on a new-to-you airplane by a new-to-you shop. It's not what we hope for, but that's reality. Even if you are not mechanically inclined, you need to constantly poke around your airplane looking for anything that doesn't look right. 1
jetdriven Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 Looks like a sellers annual. Did the shop know the seller? 2
GeeBee Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 Welcome to aircraft ownership. You might think that when you pay for an inspection, everything is inspected. Not so. I've had brand new aircraft with tools left in the inspection bay and the inspectors stamp to ok the close up of the bay on the inspection panel. A lot of shops service the airplane in accordance with the MM, lubricate, clean filter etc but do not poke around. Some get into the weeds more than others. You will find good shops who carry a lot of Roundup. Those are the ones you want as they will keep you ahead of problems. The avionics shop seems like those kind of people.
kortopates Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 If you didn’t own the aircraft and didn’t hire the shop directly to perform the annual then it would not have been your annual but the sellers with no need to communicate anything to you. Very possibly the screw interfering with the aileron tube was added by the shop doing the annual if there isn’t much damage to the tube. as a new inexperienced owner it’s too bad you didn’t use Savvy Aviation to manage your pre-buy and annual as you would have gotten good professional advice to avoid these mistakes. Too late for that now but you can contract with them for the QA service which is a consulting service to help you with your next steps. See SavvyAviation.com for details.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1
TaildraggerPilot Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 External ELT antennas are not only very common mounted on the upper fuselage, that is where I would expect most owners would want them (unless you would prefer landing inverted off-airport). 1
M20F Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 12 hours ago, bradcarr said: Ok I am going to do my best not to call anyone out here, point fingers or anything. You joined July 12th before you bought the plane and asked about insurance. My best advice is ask before in future, not after. I have been flying and owning since 1988, there is nothing I do even today without consulting with folks be it here, the airport, mechanics I have made relationships with over the years. I would look at a Saavy membership.
47U Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 2 hours ago, TaildraggerPilot said: External ELT antennas are not only very common mounted on the upper fuselage, that is where I would expect most owners would want them (unless you would prefer landing inverted off-airport). ACK! As Bill the Cat might say? I’m thinking transponder, and writing ELT. I plead late night induced sleep-surfing. Thanks for the correction, I’ll change my post for clarity and will try tp do better in the future. 1
Fly Boomer Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 9 minutes ago, 47U said: I’m thinking transponder, and writing ELT. I knew you would come around. 1
Yetti Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 There can be a process where you and the shop doing repairs physically review the items repaired. As far as an annual inspection they are just a bit more intensive than the walk around. Pre purchase are discretionary. The best thing you can do is get a copy of the Mooney 100 hour/annual inspection and start learning what it means. If the prior shop doing the work is local, I would set up some time and have a review session of what the avionics shop found. Just as a pointing out/lessons learned. The random screws on that one pic is a clue of prior maintenance. There are threads on screws that you can review and get your own set of screws to start fixing things. Here is my normal thing after a plane has been worked on. Really Really good walk around. Fast taxi or two. Shut down and review for leaks. Another fast taxi. Take off and circle up over the airport. Transponder antenna is easy fix for the avionics shop. Could have got wacked taking a cover off or on. I usually say to have 10K in the bank after purchase..... although I am up to about 15K with the newer plane.
Aerodon Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 Hi, welcome to Mooneyspace and Mooney ownership. I've seen this all the time, there are mechanics that try to keep the cost of ownership down by letting little things slide, and then when the plane is sold the next guy discovers a can of worms. I think a lot of the issues found are relatively minor and easy to fix. The fuel leak is obvious, there is a Mooney SB somewhere that describes allowable fuel stains, and I am sure this exceeds this. I think the previous mechanic told the seller that it's time to reseal the tanks ($$$) and he elected to sell. But both the annual and pre-purchase inspection should have picked this up and reported it to you. There's always a little e of catch up maintenance to get an airplane up to a new owners standard, hopefully it levels off. The fuel tank leak is going to be expensive, but even that will add some value to the plane when you sell in 10 years time. Aerodon
skykrawler Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 It might be helpful if you identify the model of airplane you purchased. Maybe even the year. At this point you have a lot of catching up to do on the matter of aircraft ownership.
EricJ Posted September 1 Report Posted September 1 There is a requirement in Canada for a diversity antenna, typically on the roof, for the 1090ES transponder/ADS-B signal. That may be what that was, and if the aircraft was in Canada, but is no longer, that may explain why it hasn't been addressed. If the transponder does have diversity capability, the diversity output channel should be turned off to prevent damaging the power ampifier in that part of the transponder. This is just me guessing what that was, but it shouldn't be too tough to check the transponder and make sure any available diversity outputs are turned off. 2
bradcarr Posted September 1 Author Report Posted September 1 The screw dragging on the left aileron rod was removed and the mechanic polished it and did something to prevent rust. He discovered it because he was concerned the servos for the autopilot wouldn't be able to move it but all is well now. The throttle and prop cable parts have also been replaced Antenna replaced also Now on to making a plan on the leak. Very concerned on the cost as there has been a bunch going out with downpayment, 1/2 the annual, avionics upgrades plus the things we have found we have repaired. I'll also do my best to answer questions. Based at KMEI for now M11 in the long haul. Shop was on field of seller, but wasn't supposedly used for anything but a landing gear light replacement. Nothing I could find in logs about leaks, the annual did report a fix of the right wing, but it was the fuel drain not the wing, nor was the left wing mentioned. Its a 75 20F Exec 21 I'm for sure going to spend some time talking with my avionics guy to see about shop options. I'm also going to look into this Saavy thing. I tried to search these forums but didn't see any post specifically talking about reviews pros cons etc. Thank you to everyone for the comments and advice 1
Schllc Posted September 1 Report Posted September 1 You could literally get an annual, fly it directly to another shop from that annual and find a bunch of squawks. Some may be in this category where it should have been caught. Vigilance, learning your machine, asking questions and regular use will make this less of an issue over time. People are fallible, sometimes its incompetence, sometimes it’s an honest mistake, sometimes it’s communication. Adjusting your expectations is somewhat required in this genre. Everything is more than it should be, and takes longer than it should as well. All these things aside, you’re in the middle of it all and it feels overwhelming. It could be worse, you could have discovered these things under more urgent circumstances. I think subconsciously I assumed everyone in this whole industry would somehow be different from people everywhere else. My reason was the consequences are so much more elevated, but people become inured. While this may sound cynical, it really isn’t, it’s just reality. There are good guys out there so don’t feel hopeless. You will find your groove. If you can find one that will fly your plane after service, that gives me a great level of confidence. Not only because they will fly in their repairs, but someone who flys will experience what you explain, and come to know her idiosyncrasies. 2
Pinecone Posted September 2 Report Posted September 2 I know of one mechanic that will NOT do a pre-buy on a plane that they have been maintaining or doing the annuals on.
1980Mooney Posted September 2 Report Posted September 2 On 8/31/2025 at 9:29 PM, bradcarr said: The screw dragging on the left aileron rod was removed and the mechanic polished it and did something to prevent rust. He discovered it because he was concerned the servos for the autopilot wouldn't be able to move it but all is well now. The throttle and prop cable parts have also been replaced Antenna replaced also Now on to making a plan on the leak. Very concerned on the cost as there has been a bunch going out with downpayment, 1/2 the annual, avionics upgrades plus the things we have found we have repaired. I'll also do my best to answer questions. Based at KMEI for now M11 in the long haul. Shop was on field of seller, but wasn't supposedly used for anything but a landing gear light replacement. Nothing I could find in logs about leaks, the annual did report a fix of the right wing, but it was the fuel drain not the wing, nor was the left wing mentioned. Its a 75 20F Exec 21 I'm for sure going to spend some time talking with my avionics guy to see about shop options. I'm also going to look into this Saavy thing. I tried to search these forums but didn't see any post specifically talking about reviews pros cons etc. Thank you to everyone for the comments and advice I know that you got a lot of "could've, should've, would've" responses. Recognize that these responses are from longtime owners, who truth be known, probably also learned many things "the hard way" but are reluctant to admit it. Plane ownership is a learning experience, and you will know the most about Mooney's and your plane the day that you sell it.... @Schllc is right - it could have been worse. We have one MooneySpace member here who bought an M20J from another MooneySpace member, a plane that had been Annualed by an authorized Mooney Service Center (MSC) in the NorthEast, and that MSC did the prebuy on the plane. After the new owner took delivery they found serious corrosion in the wing - corrosion that didn't just appear between purchase and the first inspection. It was corrosion that existed at prior Annuals and was easily visible with a mirror by any knowledgeable Mooney shop. It should have also been caught in the prior Annual as well as the Pre-buy. Long story short - the new owner had to pick up the several $10's of thousands cost and the nearly one year downtime (the plane had to be ferried to Maxwell at Longview). 2
Aerodon Posted September 2 Report Posted September 2 I know of a seller of a really old C210 that stuffed a clean rag in the pedestal under the hydraulic gear lever to hide a leak. Pre purchase found the rag, lead him to the leak, lead to a U$2500 gear actuator overhaul plus labor (sellers cost). Real estate forms in BC have a sellers disclosure statement wth the option of yes / no / don't know. Recent court cases have found that 'don't know' is not a defence. Airplane sales contracts rely on where-is as-is and pre-purchase inspections. You get what you pay for. The best is to have someone on your side have a good look over a plane and logbooks and advise you what you are getting into. Lots of little things are expected, especially for a plane that has not flown a lot. You want to be warned about corrosion, damage history, expensive AD's and more Aerodon
Yetti Posted September 4 Report Posted September 4 On 8/31/2025 at 9:29 PM, bradcarr said: The screw dragging on the left aileron rod was removed and the mechanic polished it and did something to prevent rust. He discovered it because he was concerned the servos for the autopilot wouldn't be able to move it but all is well now. The throttle and prop cable parts have also been replaced Antenna replaced also Now on to making a plan on the leak. Very concerned on the cost as there has been a bunch going out with downpayment, 1/2 the annual, avionics upgrades plus the things we have found we have repaired. I'll also do my best to answer questions. Based at KMEI for now M11 in the long haul. Shop was on field of seller, but wasn't supposedly used for anything but a landing gear light replacement. Nothing I could find in logs about leaks, the annual did report a fix of the right wing, but it was the fuel drain not the wing, nor was the left wing mentioned. Its a 75 20F Exec 21 I'm for sure going to spend some time talking with my avionics guy to see about shop options. I'm also going to look into this Saavy thing. I tried to search these forums but didn't see any post specifically talking about reviews pros cons etc. Thank you to everyone for the comments and advice I am still not exactly sure where that fuel leak is. If it near the empanage wing root, it may just be a) the rubber fuel hose that connects the tank to the hard line. b) a leaking fuel sender. Remove the side panel and have a look. These guys have the fuel sender gaskets order 4, just call them the Mooney ones are a bit thicker. https://www.brownaircraft.com/aviation-seals-s/22.htm You can get by for a little while just by tightening the screws on the sender and maybe the clamps on the fuel line. Fuel line can be from the Auto Parts store, I don't think there is a special Aviation fuel line. NAPA will probably have Gates Brand. Make sure it is fuel line. And you don't need high pressures stuff.
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