201 Gear Up at KDWH

[Shadrach]

23 hours ago, PT20J said:

It’s apparently getting harder to find shops that want to take on the work. I was talking to Kerry McIntyre (KNR) a while back and he said he recently turned down two insurance gear up jobs. 

There are plenty of shops like that here on the East Coast.  Fortunately, there are also plenty of shops hungry to do what others don't wish to do.

Lycoming mandates (by SB) the replacement of roller tappets during a propeller strike. This means that a roller tappet engine TDI costs about 5K to 8K (4cyl vs 6 cyl) more comply with SB533D over a solid tappet engine.

[Jeff Uphoff]

On 8/13/2025 at 4:50 PM, Yetti said:

 Dawn soap makes a really good foaming agent I have used it in a pressure washer and put out oil fires.   As we know Dawn is also corrosive to aluminum.

Interesting--I'd never heard this! What's in it that's corrosive to aluminum?

Is there a good reference anywhere for things like home dish soaps that are corrosive like this?

--Up.

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Uphoff said:

Interesting--I'd never heard this! What's in it that's corrosive to aluminum?

Is there a good reference anywhere for things like home dish soaps that are corrosive like this?

--Up.

Anything alkaline will corrode aluminum.   Dawn soap is mildly alkaline, i.e., pH = ~8.7-9.3.    If you do use Dawn soap, rinse everything very thoroughly after and you'll probably be fine.    Otherwise, stick to appropriate cleaners and compounds that are neutral or slightly acidic.    If you're not sure, just rinse it thoroughly afterward.

[kortopates]

Just wondering. Has anyone ever seen a fire from a mooney gear up without foam?  In 65 years i haven"t.   not many sparks from aluminum I guess. 

Agree, When a gear up occurs after a normal landing flare and speed we have a long history of minimal and non-structural damage. It’s when the incident follows a loss of control landing accident, gear up or gear down, that damage can be much more severe including breaching a tank. Fire is still very rare unless an off field landing in my experience.
Perhaps it’s very helpful there is no fuel directly behind the leading edges.


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[McMooney]

after being a passenger in a gear up, i can agree.  plane landed fine, bent the prop, ground off a step but after they picked it up, the only other dmg was the scrapes on the bottom.   Insruance still totaled the plane.  New owner had it flying a month after all the insurance cleared

[1980Mooney]

22 hours ago, McMooney said:

after being a passenger in a gear up, i can agree.  plane landed fine, bent the prop, ground off a step but after they picked it up, the only other dmg was the scrapes on the bottom.   Insruance still totaled the plane.  New owner had it flying a month after all the insurance cleared

The insurance company was quick with this one. Gear up was August 9, 2025 and the salvage auction started October 10.  It was sold October 29.  The FAA does not show that it was ever reregistered, so it might have been scrapped for parts and beer cans.

Underwriters Salvage Company - N201JK - 1976 Mooney M20J

"DESCRIPTION OF DAMAGE:  See Photos

Prop strike

Gear doors

Belly and belly antenna

Beacon

Exhaust

Inboard of wings

Flaps"

Engine at end of useful life - Last OH was in 1984 - 41 years before the gear up - TTSMOH 1,784 hours.  From 2000 - 2018 it only flew 93 hours - about 5 hours per year.  

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The insurance company was quick with this one. Gear up was August 9, 2025 and the salvage auction started October 10.  It was sold October 29.  The FAA does not show that it was ever reregistered, so it might have been scrapped for parts and beer cans.

Underwriters Salvage Company - N201JK - 1976 Mooney M20J

"DESCRIPTION OF DAMAGE:  See Photos

Prop strike

Gear doors

Belly and belly antenna

Beacon

Exhaust

Inboard of wings

Flaps"

Engine at end of useful life - Last OH was in 1984 - 41 years before the gear up - TTSMOH 1,784 hours.  From 2000 - 2018 it only flew 93 hours - about 5 hours per year.  

When someone buys a Salvage aircraft, they receive an original signed BOS with the previous owner’s signature.  Even if someone went to work returning that aircraft to service on November 1, it would likely still be down awaiting parts. There’s really not a lot of incentive for a new owner to focus on transferring registration and ownership immediately upon taking possession of the airframe. In some cases, there may be a disincentive.

[KSMooniac]

On 8/15/2025 at 9:39 AM, 1980Mooney said:

Thanks for the foam info. 

All early J’s through serial number 24-0377 had Dukes landing gear actuators with the emergency gear down crank on the pilot’s sidewalk near the footwell.  This was serial no. 24-0040.  You can see it in the old aircraft.com ad.  
 

If the Dukes gear actuator and manual emergency extension system failed then this could result in an investigation and action (SB or AD) on the Dukes system.  Perhaps the owners with Dukes gear actuators could comment on how/why the Dukes manual gear extension might fail. Is it possible for the pilot to jam it if he does not properly follow the procedure (like you can do with the Eaton)?

There are a couple ways for the Dukes emergency extension system to fail, I believe.  The most likely is the at the joint of the crank cable and the gear box where there is a spline coupler.  Normal operation has the spline coupler disengaged from the actuator gear box.  It is engaged by pushing the engagement lever forward on the pilot sidewall, just in front of the crank mechanism.  Moving that lever allows the coupler to slide onto the mating spline gear in the actuator gear box, and then when the crank is turned it will crank the gear down.  However, if the rigging of the coupler is off a little bit, then the splines will just make some kissing contact, and every time the gear is cycled with the motor, the splines will get chewed-up.  You won't see or feel anything in the cockpit, but rest assured, the damage happens and then you won't be able to crank the gear down!

My own education briefly:  Beginning of year two of my ownership (early 2008) I flew to Wilmar for fuel tank re-seal, and as I approached the field the gear failed to deploy!  After blinking a few times and realizing what didn't happen, I ran the checklist and cranked down the gear while flying a second pattern and fortunately got the green light and positive indication on the floor window.  Uneventful landing and taxi to Wilmar.  When I told Bruce Jaeger what happened, and asked that this be checked as part of my work order, his eyes got really big.  He told me about the weak link in the system and that I was lucky it worked.  (It had just been tested at annual the month prior, on jacks.)  Fast-forward to 2015, when completing the annual to get her back in service after an engine overhaul, the gear would NOT crank down on jacks!  I had never touched the system to that point, but over time the rigging apparently slipped enough to booger-up my coupler.  Fortunately LASAR had some inventory after getting a batch made, and I was able to get the system back to spec easily.  I regret not buying 2 or 3 of those couplers...   Anyway, if you have this system be vary wary of the coupler and the rigging!

[Will.iam]

22 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

The insurance company was quick with this one. Gear up was August 9, 2025 and the salvage auction started October 10.  It was sold October 29.  The FAA does not show that it was ever reregistered, so it might have been scrapped for parts and beer cans.

Underwriters Salvage Company - N201JK - 1976 Mooney M20J

"DESCRIPTION OF DAMAGE:  See Photos

Prop strike

Gear doors

Belly and belly antenna

Beacon

Exhaust

Inboard of wings

Flaps"

Engine at end of useful life - Last OH was in 1984 - 41 years before the gear up - TTSMOH 1,784 hours.  From 2000 - 2018 it only flew 93 hours - about 5 hours per year.  

41 years since last OH!?! What type of oil or location was this engine at to where the cam survived 41 years with the last 18 years getting 5 hours per year use and not rusting out?

[1980Mooney]

4 hours ago, Will.iam said:

41 years since last OH!?! What type of oil or location was this engine at to where the cam survived 41 years with the last 18 years getting 5 hours per year use and not rusting out?

 

Maybe the old Lycomings were built better….

You can download the scanned engine log from the linked Underwriters Salvage site. …..

 

[Gary0747]

How much do these totaled but repairable airframes go for at auction?  With engine and avionics removed and scrap aluminum worth 40 cents per pound is there really much of a market and value for a few key parts?   Especially now that we seem to likely be flooding that market with parts from so many gear ups?

[carusoam]

hey all!

Not sure of the age of this one…

but, fits in with this thread’s topic…

 

assume inside the cockpit…

  - there was a gear up warning,

  - followed by stall warning,

  - followed by the “you have arrived” aluminum scraping tones,

 

the Mooney video starts about the 1:45 minute mark…

 

Do you firewall the throttle after that?

Two pics… just before the scraping, and one during the scraping…

this pilot went with the power up and keep going option… (not recommended)

 

under such great speed control… this pilot went lower and lower, increasing the AOA as speed bled off…  the power keeps being adjusted the whole way…

He probably never had the AOA that high before, with all of the alarms ringing… the sight picture added another level of “something ain’t right here”.

 

it’s possible he started the go around, seconds before the momentary landing occurred… just not soon enough…

Credit goes to the videographer on this one… he must know what’s happening.

best regards,

-a-

[toto]

12 minutes ago, carusoam said:

hey all!

Not sure of the age of this one…

but, fits in with this thread’s topic…

 

assume inside the cockpit…

  - there was a gear up warning,

  - followed by stall warning,

  - followed by the “you have arrived” aluminum scraping tones,

 

the Mooney video starts about the 1:45 minute mark…

 

Do you firewall the throttle after that?

Two pics… just before the scraping, and one during the scraping…

this pilot went with the power up and keep going option… (not recommended)

 

under such great speed control… this pilot went lower and lower, increasing the AOA as speed bled off…  the power keeps being adjusted the whole way…

He probably never had the AOA that high before, with all of the alarms ringing… the sight picture added another level of “something ain’t right here”.

 

it’s possible he started the go around, seconds before the momentary landing occurred… just not soon enough…

Credit goes to the videographer on this one… he must know what’s happening.

best regards,

-a-

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/492361

[carusoam]

Looks more like a low pass using modulated power, all the way down the runway…

until the oddities of aviation physics takes over…. The nose decides to point left as the AOA goes higher…

the plane was begging for some right rudder!

best regards,

-a-

[1980Mooney]

6 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

How much do these totaled but repairable airframes go for at auction?  With engine and avionics removed and scrap aluminum worth 40 cents per pound is there really much of a market and value for a few key parts?   Especially now that we seem to likely be flooding that market with parts from so many gear ups?

There is a good market.  For example - if you need a Mooney door....  Used Airplane Parts Search | BASPartSales.com

Edited February 19 by 1980Mooney

[KSMooniac]

11 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

How much do these totaled but repairable airframes go for at auction?  With engine and avionics removed and scrap aluminum worth 40 cents per pound is there really much of a market and value for a few key parts?   Especially now that we seem to likely be flooding that market with parts from so many gear ups?

That is a hard question to answer since every salvage airframe is different.  Every variable is at play from airframe damage, engine/prop times and damage, installed avionics, and even location.  Some can be fairly easy to repair like a "regular" gear-up victim, but others make no economic sense due to the amount of damage relative to finished value.  Obviously a 2018 Ultra can withstand a lot more repair labor than a '65 C and still be viable.  If you watch ebay, every now and then you'll see a stripped carcass for sale from Wentworth... I hate when they do that!  They buy the salvage, then take out all of the panel goodies and sometimes other bits and perhaps the engine, and then try to sell the airframe where they left it when there is little chance of flying it out.  I bet many of those get cut up.    I like BAS a lot better since they fully dismantle and catalog everything and don't waste any parts, at least as far as I can tell.  They're very nice folks too.

If you manage to find a good airframe that is a candidate to repair and fly, you can work backwards from what the finished & flying value might be and estimate your costs to get it there and see what it might be worth.  In many cases if you start with a free airframe, it still might not make sense!  If it has a lot of goodies installed and the engine isn't trashed, then it can make sense.  But they're all different!  And if you find one that is 2000 miles away from you, then it adds more cost versus a closer one.

I've bid on 5-6 Mooney salvage auctions so far.  I won my very first one in 2013 and missed the next several because those would've been "nice to have" and money-makers for me vs. the first one where I had specific things I wanted that had value to me, and I parted out the rest.  It worked out well for me since I got far more familiar with Mooneys while dismantling it, and I "made" money beyond my costs, but only by counting my labor as $0/hr since it is a hobby.  I just won another one but haven't retrieved it yet...hopefully next weekend.  All of the ones I've bid/bought were too far gone to repair and fly. 

If you're mechanically inclined, have the interest, space and time/bandwidth then I would encourage anyone to consider buying their own salvage if you're a long-term owner.  My motivation on the first was to get upgrades for my early J (back seats, overhead vent system, engine controls/console to delete my throttle quadrant, turbo normalizer, etc.) as well as spares like gear and flap actuator, engine parts, switches, circuit breakers, etc.  I sold what I didn't want or need and it worked out, even though fielding inquires and selling/shipping is a hassle.  I'm looking forward to my next one and will retain more parts for myself this time since the factory situation is still hazy.

[1980Mooney]

13 hours ago, Gary0747 said:

How much do these totaled but repairable airframes go for at auction?  With engine and avionics removed and scrap aluminum worth 40 cents per pound is there really much of a market and value for a few key parts?   Especially now that we seem to likely be flooding that market with parts from so many gear ups?

Also ask @Alan Fox  He makes a business of it. 
 

 

See how BAS does it

Mooney starts at 12:40