Starter Adapter now, new airplane is snakebit!

[Ragsf15e]

45 minutes ago, shawnd said:

Though I think they may have the wrong part number listed in the 8130. They inspected, repaired and sent mine back. 

Yeah, that part number comes up for the LB engine and anything prior to, but not for the MB or SB.  It’s pretty complicated. I’ve talked to continental now and to a couple of overhaul repair stations. The exact part number depends on how many accessory drives you have for it and if you have two alternators.  Im going to send mine to G and N as @LANCECASPER recommended. They actually answered the phone and called me back with some information.  They also said they could potentially repair it since it wasn’t very long since OH.  
Im starting to think that the starter we replaced is the cause of this whole thing. My old starter was very hard to turn by hand and had a grinding noise inside it. Even though it still spun under power, they are supposed to spin freely by hand. If they don’t, the adapter will remain engaged and tear itself up.  Fingers crossed all the parts are still attached to the starter adapter and nothing is cycling through the engine. I guess we’ll know more when we take it off tomorrow.

[shawnd]

My adapter had failed, one of the springs inside broke. While it was being serviced, figured it was a good time to get the starter taken care of too. It hadn’t been serviced since install. 

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

I guess we’ll know more when we take it off tomorrow.

Where are you off to this time?  Far enough of a distance that you'll actually notice the speed difference from the F?

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Where are you off to this time?  Far enough of a distance that you'll actually notice the speed difference from the F?

Well unfortunately I meant we will take off my starter adapter and send it for repair… it broke.  We did make it back and forth (barely) to Hillsboro last weekend and the airplane is definitely fast!

[kortopates]

[mention=11618]Ragsf15e[/mention] I wouldn't worry about the exact part # yet, instead find what ever paperwork you can on any previous repairs. You get two very inexpensive repairs before you cost goes much higher. You want to know if you already have the smallest undersize spring since if you do now they will need to replace the expensive shaft. But first two times they just machine down undersize and put a smaller diameter spring on it and you are good as new. If your shaft isn't at the limit yet, then machining it with next smaller size spring is your cheapest option by far.
Your just looking for a quality engine rebuilder. Western Skyways is a good choice yet there are many other. Victor in the CA Bay area is another option. Precision Engines is a closer option but I don't know anything about them. Personally I would use Western Skyways because I know them.

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Well unfortunately I meant we will take off my starter adapter and send it for repair…

OH... oops.  I read it as the starter was still working and you were planning repairs.  

 

[philiplane]

Camguard is not an issue with starter adapters.  It is not a friction modifier, like the anti-scuff additive in Aeroshell W100 Plus or 15w50 is. 

[Ragsf15e]

Between my mechanic and I, we got the starter adapter out in about an hour.  I removed the intercooler, he dealt with the alternator.  Not too bad, but it made me afraid to have to work on the left mag or the lower alternator! Sent it to Gand N. Should be there Tuesday.  
Then I changed the oil to make sure we get out any metal that might have got into the engine.  I proceeded to unleash a tidal wave of oil on my nosegear and my IAs pretty shop floor getting the filter off.  Seems like a bad place for it!

Then we cleaned out the breather system, rerouted the oil separator return line, and removed, checked, cleaned both check valves.  Oh, and we installed my new riveted V band clamp!

It’s gonna be a whole new airplane!  I have new respect for mechanics though, that wasn’t fun.

[PeteMc]

7 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

 I proceeded to unleash a tidal wave of oil on my nosegear and my IAs pretty shop floor getting the filter off.

V shaped hunk of cardboard or I know some people that have a piece of plastic rain gutter that's been cut down to fit in there and can then be reused. 

 

 

Edited June 6 by PeteMc

[Z W]

11 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Then I changed the oil to make sure we get out any metal that might have got into the engine.  I proceeded to unleash a tidal wave of oil on my nosegear and my IAs pretty shop floor getting the filter off.  Seems like a bad place for it!

I use a form-a-funnel:

https://www.amazon.com/Form-Funnel-KIT-201-Formable-Funnel/dp/B017MTFIYE?th=1

Also highly recommend a roll of pig mats for soaking up the oil. Great to have around the hangar.

[Ragsf15e]

Yeah i used the form a funnel and it’s not terrible.  It was more my own fumbling with the oil filter trying to get it out of the tight space.  I pretty much dropped it on its side and poured it just outside the funnel.  Needed the mats.

[Ragsf15e]

On 6/4/2025 at 2:52 PM, kortopates said:

[mention=11618]Ragsf15e[/mention] I wouldn't worry about the exact part # yet, instead find what ever paperwork you can on any previous repairs. You get two very inexpensive repairs before you cost goes much higher. You want to know if you already have the smallest undersize spring since if you do now they will need to replace the expensive shaft. But first two times they just machine down undersize and put a smaller diameter spring on it and you are good as new. If your shaft isn't at the limit yet, then machining it with next smaller size spring is your cheapest option by far.
Your just looking for a quality engine rebuilder. Western Skyways is a good choice yet there are many other. Victor in the CA Bay area is another option. Precision Engines is a closer option but I don't know anything about them. Personally I would use Western Skyways because I know them.

Logs say the SA has been OH 3 previous times, and paperwork from the last one says they used an “m030” spring which i believe is the smallest.  Im preparing for the expensive overhaul.  I’m just hoping parts are readily available for it since it will probably need more than just a new spring.

[Will.iam]

I can identify with you. I got my 252 and put in camguard and within 2 months had my first starter slip. I panicked as i had 9 months to go for an annual and really did not want to down it for a starter removal. I rolled the dice and only had the starter slip one other time before annual. I got my starter overhauled and still use camguard to this day. 4 years later. Just this past April i had my starter stop working. It tried to turn the prop but then subsequent start attempts were met with clicks. AP on field opened up cowling and took a rubber mallet and whacked the starter and the engine turned over. We put the cowling back on and he said you might get one or no starts good luck. It started and i got it to my AP which took the starter off and got an exchange. He installed it and after 3 starts we thoght it was good to go but on the 4 start it was the dreaded click. I initially thought it was the solenoid as i had already replaced the battery earlier this year but a volt meter verified it was in fact the starter and that A&P did a trick i didn’t know could work but if u are AOG you might want to try it and that is to hold the starter switch in the start position while they bang the hammer on the starter i guess the vibrations get the armature to catch and spin the starter off the dead spot and it worked for me. Thus again flew it back to my A&P which was not happy to have to remove and wait for them to repair their newly remaned starter which they confirmed the armature was bad and reinstalled. I am still currently apprehensive every time i goto start the plane at least until i get 100 starts or so on it. I’m currently on start number 12 and still going strong but only time will build back reliability confidence. 
 

p. S. On your oil changes if you will get one of those oil filter poke drain tubes so that you drain all the oil out of the filter before you take it off the engine it will greatly reduce the possibility of spilling the full oil filter as you try to remove it from the engine. Lowering the cowl flaps helps get the bar out of the way but draining the filter first helped the most. 

[mike_elliott]

On 5/24/2025 at 9:47 PM, kortopates said:

. if you don’t hear the starter and no prop movement it’s the starter or the starter relay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or the starter fuse was pulled and not reset, a practice I got into doing (along with gear actuator fuse) anytime I was under the cowl or jacking with (get it) the plane

[jetdriven]

19 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Or the starter fuse was pulled and not reset, a practice I got into doing (along with gear actuator fuse) anytime I was under the cowl or jacking with (get it) the plane

Is there a starter fuse? It would have to be a few hundred amps. 

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Is there a starter fuse? It would have to be a few hundred amps. 

Primary side of the contactor?

[mike_elliott]

My bad I didn’t mean to confuse jetdriven by using the word fuse. I should have said starter breaker

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

My bad I didn’t mean to confuse jetdriven by using the word fuse. I should have said starter breaker

Yes, I’ve never seen one of those either. It would have to be 300 Amps in order having enough headroom not to surge and trip.  . But where do you put a 300 amp breaker. In IA class last week actually they said that’s the only circuit in the aircraft not required to have circuit protection was the starter.  

[Yetti]

37 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Yes, I’ve never seen one of those either. It would have to be 300 Amps in order having enough headroom not to surge and trip.  . But where do you put a 300 amp breaker. In IA class last week actually they said that’s the only circuit in the aircraft not required to have circuit protection was the starter.  

Ignition Breaker.   Which would be some safety.   The master switch provides complete disconnect so that should be good enough.   With the master off you would need two pieces of swiss cheese to line up to have a accidental start. 

[mike_elliott]

On 6/11/2025 at 7:37 AM, jetdriven said:

Yes, I’ve never seen one of those either. It would have to be 300 Amps in order having enough headroom not to surge and trip.  . But where do you put a 300 amp breaker. In IA class last week actually they said that’s the only circuit in the aircraft not required to have circuit protection was the starter.  

It’s 10a on the acclaim solenoid

[Ragsf15e]

So I got an initial report from G&N upon disassembly of my starter adapter.  It was clearly OH several times before and the parts were probably “end of life” when it was last done.  The shaft is all the way ground down, so now unusable, and it was fretting pretty badly anyway.  Unfortunately the two expensive gears in there are also bad (the shaft is ~$1500 and the gears are only a little less each).  They searched and found oh/exchange units for ~$3k but I didn’t want to end up with another shaft that has already been oh several times.  So $5500 and estimate of 4 weeks (depending on parts).  Fingers crossed for sooner as this will definitely impact our summer trips.  I’ll update when we have more details.  Going to help tow the airplane back to my hangar tomorrow so it doesn’t have to stay in the shop.

[MikeOH]

@Ragsf15e

Not worth much, but you have my sympathy.  Hope it works out without any more drama or expense.

[EricJ]

24 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

It’s 10a on the acclaim solenoid

That's for the starter solenoid/relay, not the starter circuit itself.   It's extremely unusual for a starter to have a breaker in its power path, partly because of the impracticality of putting such a high-current breaker in an aircraft.   

[Fix]

On 6/8/2025 at 2:00 PM, Will.iam said:

I can identify with you. I got my 252 and put in camguard and within 2 months had my first starter slip.

When it slip, how does it look, feel, notice it's slipping?

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Fix said:

When it slip, how does it look, feel, notice it's slipping?

The starter turns without the prop turning