Foreflight Alternatives? Which EFB should I switch to?

[0TreeLemur]

When a software company takes away features that I rely on, I don't like it.  When asked about why something doesn't work that used to work, and they reply "it never did", that pisses me off.

Short version: In August I upgraded Avidyne IFD540 to s.w. version 10.3.1.2 so I could display traffic from stratus using Open ADS-B comms.  As long as I hit "Cancel" on ForeFlight when it wanted to switch the Stratus to ForeFlight mode, it displayed traffic on the iPad too.   Recently that stopped working on ForeFlight.  When I asked Boeing about it, they replied that it never worked, which is Bull$hit.   They took that feature away.

I've been using ForeFlight since 2017.   I like it.  It did what I needed, until now.   Which EFB should I switch to?  I have an iPad, so I'm not eager to switch to a different platform.  I'd also like to use something that runs on my iPhone.  It must use the open ADS-B data standard.

Thoughtful replies sought.   "Stick with Foreflight" is not an acceptable reply.  I'm steamed.

[Kerrville]

I like wingx. Free for cfis. The picture isn’t as crisp as foreflight, but works well. Isn’t as good at getting weather briefs or filing flight plans either…

[Justin Schmidt]

[PeteMc]

32 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I upgraded Avidyne IFD540 to s.w. version 10.3.1.2 so I could display traffic from stratus using Open ADS-B comms.

Just curious, why do you want to go through the Status?  Is that the "Avidyne compatible ADS-B reciever?  I don't know much about Avidyne, but I'm surprised they don't actually receive ADS-B information and pass it on directly to FF.

As for someone telling you that they don't display Traffic, you might want to follow up with a different Support person.  I've gotten some really bogus answers from some of them (I'm assuming you might have gotten a newbie).  From the FF Website: ** ADS-B Weather and Traffic are supported when using an Avidyne-compatible ADS-B receiver correctly connected to the Avidyne IFD and with Avidyne IFD firmware 10.2.3.1 or later. In ForeFlight Mobile, this will show as two separate device tiles on the More > Devices page: "IFD" and "ADS-B."   There is also a NOTE:  ADS-B forwarding must be selected on the IFD when installed. 

And when looking for issues on FF/Avidyne issues, most of what I'm finding are from years ago.  So I'd go with it's a fixable issue if you can get someone that's a little more senior in Support.  

Oh, and what about the Status Firmware?  Any update needed there because you update the Avidyne to 10.3.1.2?  With the Garmin you sometimes also need to update some of the auxiliary devices. 

 

[EricJ]

41 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

When a software company takes away features that I rely on, I don't like it.  When asked about why something doesn't work that used to work, and they reply "it never did", that pisses me off.

Short version: In August I upgraded Avidyne IFD540 to s.w. version 10.3.1.2 so I could display traffic from stratus using Open ADS-B comms.  As long as I hit "Cancel" on ForeFlight when it wanted to switch the Stratus to ForeFlight mode, it displayed traffic on the iPad too.   Recently that stopped working on ForeFlight.  When I asked Boeing about it, they replied that it never worked, which is Bull$hit.   They took that feature away.

I've been using ForeFlight since 2017.   I like it.  It did what I needed, until now.   Which EFB should I switch to?  I have an iPad, so I'm not eager to switch to a different platform.  I'd also like to use something that runs on my iPhone.  It must use the open ADS-B data standard.

Thoughtful replies sought.   "Stick with Foreflight" is not an acceptable reply.  I'm steamed.

I use FltPlan Go and Avare.   Avare is not quite available for ipad yet, but apparently on the way.   Both are quite good, and both are free, with free chart and plate updates.

FltPlan Go was acquired by Garmin and is not going away, and the installed Part 135 user base is fairly large.   The actual commercial FltPlan software is ground-based and manages maintenance, scheduling, dispatch, and resource management for Part 135 and similar fleets.   So they give the EFB app away so that pilots will use it as it integrates with the fleet management software and helps track time, pilot resources, etc.   The upshot is that it's a very good EFB and has very good resources for flight planning, briefing, filing, etc.   It works fine with my Stratux to show traffic, weather, etc., but I haven't used it with other systems.   My understanding is that it also integrates well with Garmin wireless equipment, which I have to sort out as I'm flying G1000 stuff more often now, too, I just haven't done that yet.

Avare is open-source, but very good and still gets regular updates/improvements, but also the occassional bug that comes with the territory with open-source stuff that gets touched regularly.   I like the graphics, especially the active graphics, more on Avare than FltPlan Go, but both are very good.   Apple version is not released yet, though.

[Vance Harral]

46 minutes ago, Kerrville said:

I like wingx. Free for cfis.

I used to use and recommend WingX too, but it seems like Hilton and his one-man WingX band dropped off the face of the planet a few years ago.  It's not exactly dead, but it seems like it's barely hanging on, with no active support.  If you visit https://hiltonsoftware2.com/wingx, you'll see essentially nothing in the way of updates, just some notes about testing with the latest O/S updates.  The promo video for v9 is 3 years old.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work, and it may still be a fine backup, but I just got the point where it didn't seem supported enough to rely on, even as a backup.  I haven't looked into it in a long time, anyone have more current info?

[0TreeLemur]

21 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Just curious, why do you want to go through the Status?  Is that the "Avidyne compatible ADS-B reciever?  I don't know much about Avidyne, but I'm surprised they don't actually receive ADS-B information and pass it on directly to FF.

As for someone telling you that they don't display Traffic, you might want to follow up with a different Support person.  I've gotten some really bogus answers from some of them (I'm assuming you might have gotten a newbie).  From the FF Website: ** ADS-B Weather and Traffic are supported when using an Avidyne-compatible ADS-B receiver correctly connected to the Avidyne IFD and with Avidyne IFD firmware 10.2.3.1 or later. In ForeFlight Mobile, this will show as two separate device tiles on the More > Devices page: "IFD" and "ADS-B."   There is also a NOTE:  ADS-B forwarding must be selected on the IFD when installed. 

And when looking for issues on FF/Avidyne issues, most of what I'm finding are from years ago.  So I'd go with it's a fixable issue if you can get someone that's a little more senior in Support.  

Oh, and what about the Status Firmware?  Any update needed there because you update the Avidyne to 10.3.1.2?  With the Garmin you sometimes also need to update some of the auxiliary devices. 

 

The Avidyne 10.3.1.2 software upgrade specifically allowed an IFD to get ADS-B traffic info from a non-certified Stratus 3 or Stratux.  It was a big deal.  Doing so requires use of Capstone (GDL90) open ADS-B standard data format, which the Stratus 3 can send over wifi.   This makes the Avidyne a client to the Stratus, just like the iPad. 

The iPad used to show traffic as a client connected to the Stratus 3 using the GDL90 standard.  Still does at start up.  But as soon as you hit "Cancel" on "Change to ForeFlight" on the iPad it stops.   I've done a lot of work since last summer getting this to work.   Something has changed in ForeFlight.   The Avidyne has nothing to do with the problem I'm seeing.

[McMooney]

GP

 

[0TreeLemur]

26 minutes ago, EricJ said:

FltPlan Go was acquired by Garmin

Downloaded and installed.  Testing with Stratus in open ADS-B mode.

[toto]

I use Garmin Pilot.  I appreciate a straightforward fee schedule, and GP has just two options:  Base (VFR) and Pro (IFR).  Every time I turn around, FF has another service tier, and the top tier is quite a bit more expensive than GP Pro.

I used FltPlanGO for a long time as my primary EFB, and as mentioned above FltPlanGO/fltplan.com is fully integrated with GP, so I do my desktop planning on fltplan.com and then use GP in the cockpit.

I've found the Garmin support team very very helpful with problems - they tend to be knowledgeable and quick to respond.

My one beef with GP is that their Android support is abysmal.  They release new features for iOS months or years before releasing on Android, and the two platforms never have feature parity.  I ended up buying an iPad for just this reason.

ETA:  One more tip for GP.  I always buy GP from Aircraft Spruce.  You can get the Pro (IFR) version for like $179.  They email you a code, takes about 2 mins, works like a charm.

[McMooney]

49 minutes ago, toto said:

I use Garmin Pilot.  I appreciate a straightforward fee schedule, and GP has just two options:  Base (VFR) and Pro (IFR).  Every time I turn around, FF has another service tier, and the top tier is quite a bit more expensive than GP Pro.

I used FltPlanGO for a long time as my primary EFB, and as mentioned above FltPlanGO/fltplan.com is fully integrated with GP, so I do my desktop planning on fltplan.com and then use GP in the cockpit.

I've found the Garmin support team very very helpful with problems - they tend to be knowledgeable and quick to respond.

My one beef with GP is that their Android support is abysmal.  They release new features for iOS months or years before releasing on Android, and the two platforms never have feature parity.  I ended up buying an iPad for just this reason.

ETA:  One more tip for GP.  I always buy GP from Aircraft Spruce.  You can get the Pro (IFR) version for like $179.  They email you a code, takes about 2 mins, works like a charm.

Before i lost my samsung s8+ i preferred the android version to apple. 

my experience,  downloads work better and the samsung screen is WAY better.  True it lags behind the apple version but not by much and really none of the features i actually use.

 

[PeteMc]

Looks like there are two threads on this...  This link I got from a post from @LANCECASPER gives a lot of details:

http://avidynelive.com/ifd-540-and-stratus_topic2530.html

 

Edited January 24 by PeteMc

[KLRDMD]

6 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

When a software company takes away features that I rely on, I don't like it.  When asked about why something doesn't work that used to work, and they reply "it never did", that pisses me off. Short version: In August I upgraded Avidyne IFD540 to s.w. version 10.3.1.2 . . .

IFly EFB. https://www.iflyefb.com  It works with your Avidyne and is the most intuitive, user friendly and very capable app I've ever used, and I've used them all.

[Skates97]

27 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

IFly EFB. https://www.iflyefb.com  It works with your Avidyne and is the most intuitive, user friendly and very capable app I've ever used, and I've used them all.

I have only used the ones compatible with Android so no experience with Foreflight, but I can second Ken's recommendation. After using the different ones I settled in with IFly EFB years ago and have been extremely happy.

I will throw in a plug for DroidEFB's weight and balance app. It's free to use and Very user friendly. 

[Will.iam]

I switched employers and lost my free foreflight subscription and did not feel like paying the $100+ a year for the app. I went with FltPlan go as well it’s clunky compared to the polished foreflight app and I miss the glide ring foreflight had but at least it is free!  And it pulls in the traffic from my garmin 345 ads-b and I can get wx too.

[Bolter]

I have been very satisified with FlyQ for many years.  It is ipad based.  They work hard to compete with Foreflight, and are always adding features.  Recently bought by a bigger company, but I have not seen negative results of the change in ownership.  I have no idea if it supports your open ADS-B for Avidyne setup.  

[0TreeLemur]

11 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Looks like there are two threads on this...  This link I got from a post from @LANCECASPER gives a lot of details:

http://avidynelive.com/ifd-540-and-stratus_topic2530.html

Thanks.  I read that Sunday while doing research.   I had it all working until FF boinked up their shizzle.

Edited January 24 by 0TreeLemur

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, Bolter said:

I have been very satisified with FlyQ for many years.  It is ipad based.  They work hard to compete with Foreflight, and are always adding features.  Recently bought by a bigger company, but I have not seen negative results of the change in ownership.  I have no idea if it supports your open ADS-B for Avidyne setup.  

FlyQ wouldn’t connect to my garmin345 when i tested it a couple years back. Don’t know if they got that working now or not. 

[Nokomis449]

Another vote to try iFly.  I used it for years and was even a beta tester, but reluctantly switched to FF because FF would talk to the IFD440 and iFly had it on the roadmap but no timeframe.  This was several years ago so hopefully they've got the push/pull feature by now.  30 day free trial, and much cheaper than FF.  CrApple and Android versions as well as their own dedicated hardware with feature parity.

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, Will.iam said:

FlyQ wouldn’t connect to my garmin345 when i tested it a couple years back. Don’t know if they got that working now or not. 

I believe it is still only Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight that will connect with any of the Garmin products. 

And it's is a Garmin restriction, not an issue with any of the other EFBs. 

 

[PeteMc]

6 minutes ago, Nokomis449 said:

because FF would talk to the IFD440

Is it still working?  If so, what's your trick to make FF work with Avidyne?

[Nokomis449]

13 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Is it still working?  If so, what's your trick to make FF work with Avidyne?

I think the "trick" is that I use a Stratux instead of a Stratus so there's no proprietary communication option between it and FF.  The Stratux is the Access Point ("server") and the iPad with FF, the iPad with the IFD100 app, and the IFD440 all connect to the Stratux and all devices show traffic and weather.  This setup has worked for years, but maybe I need to run to the airport and verify.

EDIT: by "worked for years", I mean it's worked ever since Avidyne released the version that allowed the IFD to communicate with non-certified ADS-B IN devices.

[vorlon1]

6 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

Another vote to try iFly.  I used it for years and was even a beta tester, but reluctantly switched to FF because FF would talk to the IFD440 and iFly had it on the roadmap but no timeframe.  This was several years ago so hopefully they've got the push/pull feature by now.  30 day free trial, and much cheaper than FF.  CrApple and Android versions as well as their own dedicated hardware with feature parity.

Iflygps latest release works with the IFD's. Push plans, etc.

[0TreeLemur]

6 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

I think the "trick" is that I use a Stratux instead of a Stratus so there's no proprietary communication option between it and FF.  The Stratux is the Access Point ("server") and the iPad with FF, the iPad with the IFD100 app, and the IFD440 all connect to the Stratux and all devices show traffic and weather.  This setup has worked for years, but maybe I need to run to the airport and verify.

EDIT: by "worked for years", I mean it's worked ever since Avidyne released the version that allowed the IFD to communicate with non-certified ADS-B IN devices.

Let me know if this still works for you.  FF tech support told me yesterday that FF has always required receiving ADS-B data in FF mode, and has never supported the GDL90 Capstone ADS-B format.  I call B.S. because my setup with IFD540 and FF connected as clients to the Stratus worked from Sept-Nov. of last year, but doesn't now.

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Let me know if this still works for you.  FF tech support told me yesterday that FF has always required receiving ADS-B data in FF mode, and has never supported the GDL90 Capstone ADS-B format.  I call B.S. because my setup with IFD540 and FF connected as clients to the Stratus worked from Sept-Nov. of last year, but doesn't now.

Sometimes the design documents, the software, the user documentation, and the product behavior may exhibit slight differences.