Getting rid of chart and terminal procedues

[ChristianGodin]

Any thoughts on getting rid of charts and terminal procedures with and IPAD/Foreflight and a second IPAD as back-up?

[jetdriven]

We have an iPhone as a backup and yes, have no paper charts on the plane except an expired Houston TAC chart.  We also have the Garmin aera and KLN-89B (VFR) as well.

[pjsny78]

The only paper charts I have in my plane are of the carribean and Canada. Other than that my 696 and 530 are my backups to the iPad. I have the America's database on each.

[pjsny78]

Duplicate

[Vref]

I always carry a paper chart. Paper doesn't go dark unless you burn it..

[rbridges]

Quote: Vref

I always carry a paper chart. Paper doesn't go dark unless you burn it..

[Vref]

Quote: rbridges

I agree but if your primary and 2 back ups go out, then a higher power obviously doesn't want you flying.  

[jetdriven]

With an iPad and an iPhone with internal GPS, bad elf, GNS5870, cigar lighter charger cord for both, PLUS a Aera 500 in a panel dock on ship's power and an internal 5 hour battery, PLUS the KLN-89B, PLUS dual VOR/DME,  you have more navigation capability than a 747-200.  They fly across oceans with those.

Even with all that stuff, you ask me what's that out there to the right?   That's Iowa.  

[Hank]

I agree. I can fly all day and all night with paper, and don't have to worry about battery life, spare batteries [how do I change the battery in my iPad anyway?], or even leaving them sitting on the seat in the hot sun. I can fly five hours, gas up and fly five more; what's the battery life of all your electronic guidance?

I trust my GPS and file /G, but I still back up my position with VOR #2. And there's my handheld radio with 2 battery packs backing everything up in the event of another total electrical failure. The radio lives in my flight bag with the headset adapter plugged in, and I recharge the NiMH battery pack before every long trip and replace the Duracells in pack #2 from time to time.

Paper can't go dark--I have four flashlights of various sizes in the plane for when the sun goes dark. Paper won't stop working because it sits in the sun. After all, it's not Steve Jobs/Wozniak/Bill Gates/Hilton or anyone else but me who is riding up in the air--THEIR butts are all safely on the ground, except Steve's [which is safely IN the ground, someplace I am not yet ready to join him].

[Skybrd]

Quote: Hank

I agree. I can fly all day and all night with paper, and don't have to worry about battery life, spare batteries [how do I change the battery in my iPad anyway?], or even leaving them sitting on the seat in the hot sun. I can fly five hours, gas up and fly five more; what's the battery life of all your electronic guidance?

I trust my GPS and file /G, but I still back up my position with VOR #2. And there's my handheld radio with 2 battery packs backing everything up in the event of another total electrical failure. The radio lives in my flight bag with the headset adapter plugged in, and I recharge the NiMH battery pack before every long trip and replace the Duracells in pack #2 from time to time.

Paper can't go dark--I have four flashlights of various sizes in the plane for when the sun goes dark. Paper won't stop working because it sits in the sun. After all, it's not Steve Jobs/Wozniak/Bill Gates/Hilton or anyone else but me who is riding up in the air--THEIR butts are all safely on the ground, except Steve's [which is safely IN the ground, someplace I am not yet ready to join him].

[201er]

Quote: Hank

I agree. I can fly all day and all night with paper, and don't have to worry about battery life, spare batteries [how do I change the battery in my iPad anyway?], or even leaving them sitting on the seat in the hot sun. I can fly five hours, gas up and fly five more; what's the battery life of all your electronic guidance?

I trust my GPS and file /G, but I still back up my position with VOR #2. And there's my handheld radio with 2 battery packs backing everything up in the event of another total electrical failure. The radio lives in my flight bag with the headset adapter plugged in, and I recharge the NiMH battery pack before every long trip and replace the Duracells in pack #2 from time to time.

Paper can't go dark--I have four flashlights of various sizes in the plane for when the sun goes dark. Paper won't stop working because it sits in the sun. After all, it's not Steve Jobs/Wozniak/Bill Gates/Hilton or anyone else but me who is riding up in the air--THEIR butts are all safely on the ground, except Steve's [which is safely IN the ground, someplace I am not yet ready to join him].

[Hank]

Mike--

Electronic plates are nice to have, but I've never used one in the cockpit. I HAVE printed out the ones I need, two to the page, and folded in half they fit my kneeboard very well. It's nicer than having to lug around several books, and only taking the airports that I need is easy. Unless I fly somewhere large like BNA, with four runways [eight when you consider both directions on each one] with multiple approaches to each . . .

Maybe part of my discomfort with the idea of paperless charts is that they are hard to write on, I really hate a bunch of wires in the cockpit, batteries are unreliable and require charging/replacement so leaving the gear in the plane really isn't an option, and finally, it's so difficult to put a finger on an electronic chart [or lay a plotter on a VOR] to mark my current location.

For flight planning purposes, though, they must be great! For actual in-flight use, no thank you. And yes, I routinely fly front-and-back and multi-chart trips. They lay on their edges between the seats, stacked in order of use, for each flight; after use, they usually make their way to the back seat or rear floorboards behind the right seat.

And no thank you, I don't want to lug an iPad with me all the time, just in case I decide tomake a quick hamburger flight. My paper chart is right there in the plane, whenever and however I arrive at the hangar.

[carusoam]

Hank,

You have clearly reminded me of some of the benefits of paper.  I keep some in the cockpit.  They may be slightly outdated.

Electronic charts always shows me exactly where I am, on an updated chart.  The next chart or procedure is stored exactly where I think it supposed to be. I still use paper to write on.

IPads have not completely eliminated paper, but paper is getting more difficult to get and keep updated.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Hank]

That's why I have chart subscriptions. Joe Pilot [ www.joepilot.com ] gets them delivered to my home for about the list price from Sportys. I use scrap paper to take cockpit notes, just anything printed out that I no longer need, folded in half, blank side out. Fits the kneeboard very well! Costs nothing, helps the environment. And I have a never-ending supply . . . . .

The idiots at Runway finder who think they have patented everyone's ability to download flight information over the internet shut down my previous e-plate provider, Nacomatic. Who's a good replacement?

[danb35]

Quote: Hank

The idiots at Runway finder who think they have patented everyone's ability to download flight information over the internet shut down my previous e-plate provider, Nacomatic. Who's a good replacement?

[Hank]

You're right, Dan, my bad. I have to wonder if Flight Prep will shut down my bank's web site, since they seem to have a patent on the idea of downloading information over the internet.

iPad apps are nice, but here at work there is LAN but not WAN, and we are on the edge of cell service. I can download stuff over the internet to a memory stick, but the iPad is useless for obtaining information. I can't even use the cable to put information into it, since it all has to go through iTunes, which is one of several blocked sites. [facebook, youtube, itunes, most of the big time-wasters]

I mourn the passing of Nacomatic . . . It was the most efficient! downloading individual airports can be done even through AOPA, but that won't do a whole lot of good if you divert to somewhere other than your pre-planned and pre-downloaded alternate. If you've got the whole state, not so big a deal. So I have two-state books. THREE of them to cover my local area. [Local in this case means less than 10 nm.]

[1964-M20E]

Not yet IR but I now have the I-fly 720 with all current charts and plates loaded on it.  I keep paper charts and downloaded and printed approach plates for my origin, destination and alternate and a limited number of plates for selected airports along my route. I started doing this before I was working on my IR the approach plates and airport diagrams just give you good info for each airport even VFR. 

The paper is my primary means of navigation.  I like the electronic and it is neat but I feel comfortable with the paper.  The 720 will show me exactly where I am on any chart or plate I choose (except for a few plates that are not yet geo referenced) and my Garmin 300 will show me where I am as well.  I also have the bound copy of the plates along my route though sometimes old.  This should take care of most any situation.  If it gets worse I know a few prayers by heart.

[danb35]

Quote: Hank

iPad apps are nice, but here at work there is LAN but not WAN, and we are on the edge of cell service. I can download stuff over the internet to a memory stick, but the iPad is useless for obtaining information. I can't even use the cable to put information into it, since it all has to go through iTunes, which is one of several blocked sites. [facebook, youtube, itunes, most of the big time-wasters]

[Hank]

Quote: danb35

You don't have any Internet access at home?  And for putting stuff onto the iPad, in most cases you'll use the iTunes software, not any website (and in some cases you can transfer the information directly over a wireless network or other means, without using iTunes).

The iPad apps may well not be what you need, but I'm not seeing how the network arrangement at work controls the decision.

[N601RX]

There are several tricks to getting around the blocked sites at work. Depending on the software they use it may be very easy or not so easy. Do a google search and see if one of them will work. Does your work have a seperate public wifi for visitors?

[danb35]

Quote: Hank

Transferring data into the iPad without using cell or WiFi would be nice--can you please expand on this? I thought my only options were all Apple-controlled, and thus the lack of a USB port. Can't have us users just loading data indiscriminately, now! I frequently bluetooth photos from my camera to my old Palm [now it's most important job] or to my Linux netbook, but have not noticed that option with the iPad.

[jetdriven]

You know, I did not read the OP's statement very well.  I actually do print out the Jepp approack plates for the destination if I expect to have to do an approach there.  Other than that, paperless.

[kris_adams]

696 as primary for plates, foreflight on my ipad is backup, and lastly I usually print the approach plates for my destination airport and carry those as well.

[triple8s]

I like to go with moving maps but I ALWAYS carry paper charts because they can be very handy. I went on a trip, rented a car, drove around, saw the sights and unfortunately the FBO was closed when we returned. The rental car agency was also closed and had a drop box for the keys. We had a big meal meal hours before and I had an emergency! NO restroom! Luckily there was no one around and I had my trusty paper charts. Try THAT with your Ipad!

[Ncbosshoss]

They also make excellent wrapping paper for Christmas!