Save me from my Wife’s Piper Lance aspirations!

[BigD]

Hello! I have had a C model for about five years. She's been great, and last year we flew her 85 hours, with 100% dispatch. I can't say enough good things about her. Unfortunately, our family has grown over the years to where we now have four dogs, three of which are pretty large (huskies). The fourth is a 20 pounder and can sit in a lap. When we had one, two and even three, we were able to fly our plane with them on trips, which we really enjoyed. They even have earmuffs and earplugs! Well, to make a long story short, now with the fourth rescue dog, we have outsized the old C, and my wife is going crazy, she misses traveling with them. She is sort of stuck on the idea of a Piper Lance, and I REAAALLLY am trying to stay in a mooney. I am thinking if I could remove back seats of a long body (question number 1), maybe we can make it work. We are 615 pounds (with 100# of bags), so I think a useful load of 1000 or more would work out for us. I have been trying to see pictures of the interior rear area of a long body mooney, and it seems like an Eagle might be a good fit for us, as we won't be doing any high altitude stuff with dogs, and our trips are typically no higher than 10k, as we fly in Eastern U.S. Love to get some feedback. The Lance numbers really are horrible with fuel burns and speed. I think a long body would be the right fit, just not sure about rear area sizing. Thanks!

 

 

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[DonMuncy]

That might work for now; but what happens when you get three more dogs.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, BigD said:

 

Hello! I have had a C model for about five years. She's been great, and last year we flew her 85 hours, with 100% dispatch. I can't say enough good things about her. Unfortunately, our family has grown over the years to where we now have four dogs, three of which are pretty large (huskies). The fourth is a 20 pounder and can sit in a lap. When we had one, two and even three, we were able to fly our plane with them on trips, which we really enjoyed. They even have earmuffs and earplugs! Well, to make a long story short, now with the fourth rescue dog, we have outsized the old C, and my wife is going crazy, she misses traveling with them. She is sort of stuck on the idea of a Piper Lance, and I REAAALLLY am trying to stay in a mooney. I am thinking if I could remove back seats of a long body (question number 1), maybe we can make it work. We are 615 pounds (with 100# of bags), so I think a useful load of 1000 or more would work out for us. I have been trying to see pictures of the interior rear area of a long body mooney, and it seems like an Eagle might be a good fit for us, as we won't be doing any high altitude stuff with dogs, and our trips are typically no higher than 10k, as we fly in Eastern U.S. Love to get some feedback. The Lance numbers really are horrible with fuel burns and speed. I think a long body would be the right fit, just not sure about rear area sizing. Thanks!

 

 

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The Lance numbers are even worse when you figure maintenance!

[N201MKTurbo]

I flew a turbo Saratoga to New Orleans back in May. I was surprised how well it flew and the numbers were better than I thought they would be. It was doing a solid 170 KTS on 14 GPH. The room in the back was huge.

The owner never keeps an airplane for more than a few months, so I'm sure he will be selling it soon. He has the @KLRDMD disease.

[Bolter]

I think the long body will support your dog habit.  We went from a J to a Long Body to get more cargo.  Almost 2 years later, and many family trips, I am impressed at how much more cargo volume we can take.  Note that we were bumping into a volume issue, not weight issue, just like you.  I think all long bodies have the quick release rear seats, so its easy to get even larger open flat space.  

If looking at Eagles or older Ovations, I would prioritize the 310HP upgrade (Screaming Eagle or Standing Ovation) for the takeoff power.  

-dan

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, BigD said:

She is sort of stuck on the idea of a Piper Lance, and I REAAALLLY am trying to stay in a mooney.

Rent an old dog (Lance), load it to the gills, fly somewhere a little further away than usual.  Droning along for an extra hour may change her mind.  Even better, fly somewhere that requires a fuel stop.  Realllly extends the flight.

[Shadrach]

19 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I flew a turbo Saratoga to New Orleans back in May. I was surprised how well it flew and the numbers were better than I thought they would be. It was doing a solid 170 KTS on 14 GPH. The room in the back was huge.

The owner never keeps an airplane for more than a few months, so I'm sure he will be selling it soon. He has the @KLRDMD disease.

Agreed. A hangar neighbor is selling his turbo toga because he feels gouged by the insurance industry at age 70. It’s a super nice bird. Lot a of room, lots of payload. Not as fast or as efficient as a Mooney but not bad. It does other things very well. 

[anthonydesmet]

That’s 120lb german and a 45 lb chow in a 231 body.  We fly 12k to 15k.

 

[eman1200]

find a good lance, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:58 AM, eman1200 said:

find a good lance, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

You rang? Did someone page me?   Just kidding

The Lance/Saratoga is a people or cargo hauler for sure and much easier to get people and pets in and out. Just not as fun as a Mooney, but still a good airplane. It sounds like it fits your mission better than a Mooney.

[Shadrach]

Back in the 80s it was not uncommon to rent high-performance singles. I remember my stepfather renting a T-tail Lance to fly from Texas to Kansas. I had done a lot of GA traveling in various makes by the time I was 12 years old. I was positively shocked to see a potty in the back of that Lance. We were of course forbidden from using it. Even so, I felt like we had stepped up to cabin class.

[anthonydesmet]

Over the last year or so my wife and I have had same discussion.  Getting two dogs and bags in are no trouble but as we forecast both of us “crawling” through the side door later on we both kind of get in and go, hmmmm.  I’ve actually had my eye on a couple local Skymasters and maybe going twin.  
But I flew local today just to get in the air and decompress and thought a morning ride wouldn’t be the same in a twin or something bigger…plus the cross country benefits when you need it.  
 

l …flew over Crystal River, Cedar Key and the big bend to just take a look…. Still a lot of water where it shouldn’t be….

 

[M20F]

Cherokee 6 of the 300HP variant is my recommendation. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Cherokee 6 is really slow…. You need a retract.

[Hank]

13 hours ago, M20F said:

Cherokee 6 of the 300HP variant is my recommendation. 

I don't know about the 300hp versions, but my little C walks away from a -6 even quicker than I do from a 182 . . . . And I'm using 40% less fuel . . . .

[M20F]

51 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Cherokee 6 is really slow…. You need a retract.

It is a 140-145kt plane that will carry anything in comfort.   If it takes off at same time as you and you go 3 hrs, you probably get there 15  mins faster.   Buy a plane based on your mission not on brand loyalty.   There are many planes out there that are much better than Mooney’s.  Given a choice of 6 seat singles the Cherokee 6 would be my choice.     

 

[Fly Boomer]

6 minutes ago, M20F said:

It is a 140-145kt plane that will carry anything in comfort.   If it takes off at same time as you and you go 3 hrs, you probably get there 15  mins faster.   Buy a plane based on your mission not on brand loyalty.   There are many planes out there that are much better than Mooney’s.  Given a choice of 6 seat singles the Cherokee 6 would be my choice.     

 

I have not heard the "B" word?

[M20F]

Just now, Fly Boomer said:

I have not heard the "B" word?

Bonanza is better also probably $100K more.  Mooney’s especially the classics are fast, high useful load, burn low gas, and are generally cheap.  

Cherokee 6 is a good hauling plane that is going to be cheaper then a Bonanza or 206. 

[M20F]

1 minute ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

.  But talk about utilitarianism.  No sex appeal whatsoever.  

It’s the aviation version of a dodge caravan. 

[N201MKTurbo]

42 minutes ago, M20F said:

It is a 140-145kt plane that will carry anything in comfort.   If it takes off at same time as you and you go 3 hrs, you probably get there 15  mins faster.   Buy a plane based on your mission not on brand loyalty.   There are many planes out there that are much better than Mooney’s.  Given a choice of 6 seat singles the Cherokee 6 would be my choice.     

 

I have a friend with a Cherokee 6 and another with a turbo Saratoga. I have privileges on both planes. Much prefer the Saratoga.

The six is not 300 HP and it won’t do 145 KTS, more like 130 on a good day. I’ve never flown a 300 HP six. I’m sure they do better.

[M20F]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have a friend with a Cherokee 6 and another with a turbo Saratoga. I have privileges on both planes. Much prefer the Saratoga.

I can tell you which one you would prefer owning. 

[N201MKTurbo]

4 minutes ago, M20F said:

I can tell you which one you would prefer owning. 

I have worked and done annuals on both.

[KLRDMD]

21 hours ago, anthonydesmet said:

Over the last year or so my wife and I have had same discussion.  Getting two dogs and bags in are no trouble but as we forecast both of us “crawling” through the side door later on we both kind of get in and go, hmmmm.  I’ve actually had my eye on a couple local Skymasters and maybe going twin.  

Seriously look at the P337s if you're considering the 337 series. There's nothing like pressurized, air-conditioned comfort. The cabin is very comfortable and the air stair door is tremendous. The engines are essentially the same as the Mooney 252, not bad to manage at all. The single-engine service ceiling is around 18,000 feet if I recall correctly. I would see 183 KTAS on 11.5 GPH per engine at 17,500 ft.

[MikeOH]

11 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Seriously look at the P337s if you're considering the 337 series. There's nothing like pressurized, air-conditioned comfort. The cabin is very comfortable and the air stair door is tremendous. The engines are essentially the same as the Mooney 252, not bad to manage at all. The single-engine service ceiling is around 18,000 feet if I recall correctly. I would see 183 KTAS on 11.5 GPH per engine at 17,500 ft.

And, what kind of insurance premium is an experienced Mooney pilot with zero P337 time looking at?

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

And, what kind of insurance premium is an experienced Mooney pilot with zero P337 time looking at?

At least it's centerline thrust!

@Parker_Woodruff?