Oil Cooler hoses, top or bottom?

[nevadabandit]

We are assembling a project M20 E super 21 and are putting a new oil cooler in the stock location, the hoses seem to fit better with the cooler installed with the hose fittings on the top.  Is there a reason that this is not advisable?  they will run alongside the block far above and away from the exhaust pipes where they used to go.

Your thoughts??

[Kelpro999]

12 hours ago, nevadabandit said:

We are assembling a project M20 E super 21 and are putting a new oil cooler in the stock location, the hoses seem to fit better with the cooler installed with the hose fittings on the top.  Is there a reason that this is not advisable?  they will run alongside the block far above and away from the exhaust pipes where they used to go.

Your thoughts??

Perhaps sediment. Dropout during reduced velocity near bottom of cooler. Don’t know exactly but you asked for thoughts 

[PT20J]

I would do whatever the service manual/IPC shows. 

If the hoses are old and not teflon, you might want to replace them and double check that the sizes agree with the IPC. 

[Shadrach]

21 hours ago, nevadabandit said:

We are assembling a project M20 E super 21 and are putting a new oil cooler in the stock location, the hoses seem to fit better with the cooler installed with the hose fittings on the top.  Is there a reason that this is not advisable?  they will run alongside the block far above and away from the exhaust pipes where they used to go.

Your thoughts??

What are you using as a reference? Who is doing the work? The factory routing of the oil hoses is down the outside of the rear baffle wall and then forward under the exhaust system. There should be a heat shield built into the floor of the lower cowl just inside the cowl flap to protect the hoses. I can find no supporting documentation for doing it as you suggest. Does the plane have a modified/aftermarket cowl?

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Shadrach

[McMooney]

Just replaced mine, here's a pic

[takair]

23 hours ago, nevadabandit said:

We are assembling a project M20 E super 21 and are putting a new oil cooler in the stock location, the hoses seem to fit better with the cooler installed with the hose fittings on the top.  Is there a reason that this is not advisable?  they will run alongside the block far above and away from the exhaust pipes where they used to go.

Your thoughts??

One consideration is the engine movement on the mounts….so you need to account for this if routing on the engine.  Don’t want to add load to the oil cooler since those hoses are stiff and have a over arm that can induce cracking.  Would need to figure a way to allow for some movement….

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Use adel clamps to secure hoses in a specific location 

 

teflon is 25% smaller o.d.

I swage one fitting, install firesleeve and then swage other fitting.

all others per there tso most build hose assembly, and then slide on sleeve.

This method makes a bulky hose assy 

 

GB

[MB65E]

17 hours ago, McMooney said:

Just replaced mine, here's a pic

Where are your lower cowl support rods? Your oil cooler has different stand-offs than most. To the OP, Yes it’s tight. If you were to mount the cooler the other way I would suspect it would catch on the ram air cable and be close to the mixture. I’d leave them on the bottom and have the hoses manufactured with smooth 90°s on them if needed. 

-Matt

[A64Pilot]

Happy to hear one is being resurrected and not scrapped

[takair]

20 hours ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

Use adel clamps to secure hoses in a specific location 

 

teflon is 25% smaller o.d.

I swage one fitting, install firesleeve and then swage other fitting.

all others per there tso most build hose assembly, and then slide on sleeve.

This method makes a bulky hose assy 

 

GB

Do you have the dimensions/specs for oil cooler lines and the prop governor flex line for a 1964 M20E, or would I need to measure them to order?

[Shadrach]

22 hours ago, takair said:

One consideration is the engine movement on the mounts….so you need to account for this if routing on the engine.  Don’t want to add load to the oil cooler since those hoses are stiff and have a over arm that can induce cracking.  Would need to figure a way to allow for some movement….

Looks like a doubler was added where the supports would mount and they were never reinstalled.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:43 PM, takair said:

Do you have the dimensions/specs for oil cooler lines and the prop governor flex line for a 1964 M20E, or would I need to measure them to order?

I suggest some vinyl hose from ace hardware for routing and proper length 

 

This is how I do mock-ups

brass slip on fittings and tubing 

[cliffy]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:58 PM, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

I suggest some vinyl hose from ace hardware for routing and proper length 

 

This is how I do mock-ups

brass slip on fittings and tubing 

Damn good idea  Learn something new every day even if  you are an old dog! :-)

[Kelpro999]

On 8/7/2023 at 5:58 PM, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

I suggest some vinyl hose from ace hardware for routing and proper length 

 

This is how I do mock-ups

brass slip on fittings and tubing 

Excellent advice and if I may add cutting cardboard to mimic the hose minimum bend radius helps prevent exceeding specifications during mockup.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

High psi Teflon 3000 psi has a better bend radius than med psi Teflon 

you will see this spec on all commercial aircraft gear hyd  brake assys .

The 777 is Kevlar braid with titanium fittings.

 

GB

[McMooney]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:17 AM, MB65E said:

Where are your lower cowl support rods? Your oil cooler has different stand-offs than most. To the OP, Yes it’s tight. If you were to mount the cooler the other way I would suspect it would catch on the ram air cable and be close to the mixture. I’d leave them on the bottom and have the hoses manufactured with smooth 90°s on them if needed. 

-Matt

Hmm, that i do not know, please show a pic of a model with these lower supports

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

Hmm, that i do not know, please show a pic of a model with these lower supports

 

 

[McMooney]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 

 

Just Guessing,  but looking in the service / parts manuals, my model never had lower supports

[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, McMooney said:

Just Guessing,  but looking in the service / parts manuals, my model never had lower supports

Interesting. I have never seen a vintage Mooney without cowl supports.  74 was the first year production year under Republic Steel's ownership. There were loads of changes and omissions throughout the late 60s and into the 70s.  I'd be interested to see if they devised some other method of supporting the cowl.  Seems too heavy to just cantilever off the firewall. The upper cowl and intake add support when assembled. Is there additional structure supporting the cowl that can't bee seen?

[Old Chub]

Mine C model is a 1968 with no lower cowl support struts and fixed cowl flaps.   That was from the factory.

Warren

 

[jamesm]

You may want consider fire sleaving the original hose did not have it installed. Also if I recall correctly one those or could mine particular airplane the adel clamps where something like -3 bolt #10 with 3/8” wrench head size but the hard to get to was another size smaller something like 11/32” wrench head size or could have been 5/16” wrench size. Much easier to see when engine not installed.  I have done both way with engine installed and not.  
good luck with your project.

james ‘67c