Looking at buying a Mooney

[Devin]

Hello all.  My name is Devin and I live in the Chandler/Gilbert area of Arizona.  45 years old and just retired from Fire Dept and going for a complete career change into aviation.  Prior military flew in Helos and am very excited to get back into aviation.  I am finishing up my PPL and looking at buying an airplane instead of renting to get my Instrument rating and time build and take the family places.  The Mooney's seem to fit my mission the best with traveling to the Midwest and West coast often with my wife and two kids (12 and 9) for great endurance and low fuel burn and also for if I am flying solo to build time to turn down the power settings and get an even lower fuel burn.  I am 6'2" 220 and have been told by many that the Mooney's will be to small for me but then I see actual owners of Mooney's say different among other rumors.  I am sure I will have a lot of questions on this journey and greatly appreciate any advice from anyone on buying a Mooney.  My first question, is there any 1963-1975 Mooney M20C, E, or F owners in my area that would be willing to let me tag along in a flight to get a feel for what its like to be in a Mooney.  I would gladly pay for the experience if necessary.  Thank you all. 

[DonMuncy]

You will do fine with any Mooney. You have to contort some getting in, but once inside, they are plenty big for you. Your kids are getting big enough that you are going to have to watch your max weight. That could involve flying shorter legs with less fuel. Look at the POH (weight) for any plane you are considering, and plan accordingly.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I’m currently 6’2” and 220 and fit in my Mooney just fine,  you’ll be ok.  Personally I have a preference for the mid length Mooneys but that’s for the benefit of back seat people and more baggage space,  there’s no difference in the front seats.  

[KSMooniac]

You'll fit just fine in any Mooney. Your kids are old enough that you should probably strongly favor the F that gives 5" more rear leg room and 5" more baggage depth as well if you plan to take any trips with everyone.

My dad had a C while I was growing up and my brother and I rode in back... Until we were about your kids ages and then stopped as it got too difficult to pack everything and us.

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[Devin]

I have been looking at the F's a lot.  If its just me in there and I am out building time can I reduce the power settings enough to get that really really low fuel burn rate like I have heard guys say possible with the C's?

[Robert Hicks]

Hey Devin, I sent you a PM. Give me a call.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

Hello all.  My name is Devin and I live in the Chandler/Gilbert area of Arizona.  45 years old and just retired from Fire Dept and going for a complete career change into aviation.  Prior military flew in Helos and am very excited to get back into aviation.  I am finishing up my PPL and looking at buying an airplane instead of renting to get my Instrument rating and time build and take the family places.  The Mooney's seem to fit my mission the best with traveling to the Midwest and West coast often with my wife and two kids (12 and 9) for great endurance and low fuel burn and also for if I am flying solo to build time to turn down the power settings and get an even lower fuel burn.  I am 6'2" 220 and have been told by many that the Mooney's will be to small for me but then I see actual owners of Mooney's say different among other rumors.  I am sure I will have a lot of questions on this journey and greatly appreciate any advice from anyone on buying a Mooney.  My first question, is there any 1963-1975 Mooney M20C, E, or F owners in my area that would be willing to let me tag along in a flight to get a feel for what its like to be in a Mooney.  I would gladly pay for the experience if necessary.  Thank you all. 

Welcome to MooneySpace!  As others have said above, you will have plenty of room.  I would just add that the way the Mooney is designed, it accommodates long legs easily.  I'm 6'4" and 235.  That said, I would give a +1 to the suggestion to go with an F.  Another MooneySpacer just bought an F.  See this topic:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/45523-need-a-pre-buy-in-corona-ca

Here is a link to the airplane:

https://indyairsales.com/current-inventory/aircraft/1968-mooney-m20f-n3486n/

[bcg]

I was in Chandler last week with my C, wish I'd seen this then. Chandler Air at KCHD works on lots of Mooney's, they may have something you can take a look at or an owner you can talk to.

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[MBDiagMan]

Yes Devin, you can pull the power back, lean it out and fly it at 172 speeds, probably on less fuel.  You log time by the hour, not by the mile, so it will work just fine.

The silent Mooney Haters of America will always tell you how you won’t be able to fit into a Mooney.  If you start questioning those people you will often find that they’ve never been in one, but they are experts in their claims of Mooney’s being too cramped.  I’m 6’1”, 180 pounds, but have been up to 210 and not cramped at all.  Find a well kept example and enjoy yourself.  Pay no attention to the naysayers.

[gmonnig]

6’1” and 245 with an E. Luckily my wife is 115lbs to offset my ass but we are empty nesters now. With growing kids, an F or J is what you’re looking for. E is the plane you want for retirement with no kids, power to weight ratio is on par with an Ovation 3.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Yes Devin, you can pull the power back, lean it out and fly it at 172 speeds, probably on less fuel.  You log time by the hour, not by the mile, so it will work just fine.

My C makes the same trips as a 172, about 25-30% faster on 10% less fuel. If I slowed down from normal cruise, fuel burn would also go down. An E or Fshould be able to get even lower fuel flow, as their fuel injected engines can easily run Lean of Peak.

Mooney cabins are actually wider than most Cessna and Piper planes, but it's down by your elbows and a little narrower above your head. The seating position is close to the floor, like a sports car, rather than the Cessna kitchen-chair position. If you like a square-backed wooden chair, you won't enjoy sitting in a Mooney. 

Enjoy your search, and good luck!

[Huckster79]

Absolutely perfect plane for what you are looking for.  I'm a new Mooniac myself, a few months in, came from flying a Cessna 140 and 172.  What a fine piece of equipment these are- I feel like I went from driving a chevy cavalier with loose steering to a brand new Cadillac in terms of handling and feel.   I bought the F as I wanted the increased useful load and room.  I think they are worth the increased price, and is almost everything a J is for less (and yes J friends I said almost)  I've had my adult kids in back as well as my wife and friends wife- all the rear seat passengers say they are comfy as can be- far better than the chickenhawk was, the seats even recline, great airflow to their vents, etc.  

And wow yes you can throttle and lean back a lot.  I locally fly around 6.5gph.  We flew for a while at 5-5.5 but she felt a bit awkward down there, but possibly had I thought of putting one notch of flaps in she would have been fine.  She just sat pretty nose high.  But yea you can run em on very little fuel if its just building time... 

 

 

[Devin]

8 minutes ago, Huckster79 said:

Absolutely perfect plane for what you are looking for.  I'm a new Mooniac myself, a few months in, came from flying a Cessna 140 and 172.  What a fine piece of equipment these are- I feel like I went from driving a chevy cavalier with loose steering to a brand new Cadillac in terms of handling and feel.   I bought the F as I wanted the increased useful load and room.  I think they are worth the increased price, and is almost everything a J is for less (and yes J friends I said almost)  I've had my adult kids in back as well as my wife and friends wife- all the rear seat passengers say they are comfy as can be- far better than the chickenhawk was, the seats even recline, great airflow to their vents, etc.  

And wow yes you can throttle and lean back a lot.  I locally fly around 6.5gph.  We flew for a while at 5-5.5 but she felt a bit awkward down there, but possibly had I thought of putting one notch of flaps in she would have been fine.  She just sat pretty nose high.  But yea you can run em on very little fuel if its just building time... 

 

 

Thank you.  Thats what I was hoping I would be able to do.

[Devin]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

My C makes the same trips as a 172, about 25-30% faster on 10% less fuel. If I slowed down from normal cruise, fuel burn would also go down. An E or Fshould be able to get even lower fuel flow, as their fuel injected engines can easily run Lean of Peak.

Mooney cabins are actually wider than most Cessna and Piper planes, but it's down by your elbows and a little narrower above your head. The seating position is close to the floor, like a sports car, rather than the Cessna kitchen-chair position. If you like a square-backed wooden chair, you won't enjoy sitting in a Mooney. 

Enjoy your search, and good luck!

Thank you for the reply.  Great info

[Devin]

14 hours ago, gmonnig said:

6’1” and 245 with an E. Luckily my wife is 115lbs to offset my ass but we are empty nesters now. With growing kids, an F or J is what you’re looking for. E is the plane you want for retirement with no kids, power to weight ratio is on par with an Ovation 3.

Thank you.  I am definitely looking at the F models more and more

[Devin]

15 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Yes Devin, you can pull the power back, lean it out and fly it at 172 speeds, probably on less fuel.  You log time by the hour, not by the mile, so it will work just fine.

The silent Mooney Haters of America will always tell you how you won’t be able to fit into a Mooney.  If you start questioning those people you will often find that they’ve never been in one, but they are experts in their claims of Mooney’s being too cramped.  I’m 6’1”, 180 pounds, but have been up to 210 and not cramped at all.  Find a well kept example and enjoy yourself.  Pay no attention to the naysayers.

Great!  Thats what I was hoping to be able to do.  Yea when I am just solo and building I want a burn rate as low as possible.  I don't care how fast im going during those building hours flights.

[Devin]

15 hours ago, bcg said:

I was in Chandler last week with my C, wish I'd seen this then. Chandler Air at KCHD works on lots of Mooney's, they may have something you can take a look at or an owner you can talk to.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
 

Dang.  Sorry I missed you.  I will def check out Chandler Air.  Thank you

[Devin]

17 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Welcome to MooneySpace!  As others have said above, you will have plenty of room.  I would just add that the way the Mooney is designed, it accommodates long legs easily.  I'm 6'4" and 235.  That said, I would give a +1 to the suggestion to go with an F.  Another MooneySpacer just bought an F.  See this topic:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/45523-need-a-pre-buy-in-corona-ca

Here is a link to the airplane:

https://indyairsales.com/current-inventory/aircraft/1968-mooney-m20f-n3486n/

Thank you for the reply.  I am def looking more and more at the F models for sure.

[Devin]

18 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

You'll fit just fine in any Mooney. Your kids are old enough that you should probably strongly favor the F that gives 5" more rear leg room and 5" more baggage depth as well if you plan to take any trips with everyone.

My dad had a C while I was growing up and my brother and I rode in back... Until we were about your kids ages and then stopped as it got too difficult to pack everything and us.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Thank you for the advice on the F models.  I am looking more and more at them and they do seem the way to go for me.  

[Devin]

19 hours ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

I’m currently 6’2” and 220 and fit in my Mooney just fine,  you’ll be ok.  Personally I have a preference for the mid length Mooneys but that’s for the benefit of back seat people and more baggage space,  there’s no difference in the front seats.  

Thank you!

[Devin]

19 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

You will do fine with any Mooney. You have to contort some getting in, but once inside, they are plenty big for you. Your kids are getting big enough that you are going to have to watch your max weight. That could involve flying shorter legs with less fuel. Look at the POH (weight) for any plane you are considering, and plan accordingly.

Great advice and thank you!

[Devin]

Is there a significant increase in engine maintenance cost from a "C" model 180 lycoming to an "F" model fuel injected 200HP lycoming?

[Ragsf15e]

18 hours ago, Devin said:

I have been looking at the F's a lot.  If its just me in there and I am out building time can I reduce the power settings enough to get that really really low fuel burn rate like I have heard guys say possible with the C's?

Yes.  Possibly even lower because the fuel injected engine feeds fuel more evenly in an F than the carb’d C (apologies to C guys who are now cursing my ignorance).

The engines are basically the same except for carb vs injected.  Cylinders are slightly different valves, but mx wise, they are the same beast.  

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ragsf15e

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, Devin said:

Is there a significant increase in engine maintenance cost from a "C" model 180 lycoming to an "F" model fuel injected 200HP lycoming?

Nope.  They are pretty much the same for mx.  

[Bolter]

2 minutes ago, Devin said:

Thank you for the reply.  I am def looking more and more at the F models for sure.

Budget is important but a quick summary of the COMMON non-turbo Mooney's by body size.  Higher letters are newer models, and generally more expensive:

• C and E: short bodies.  Back seaters will have less room, crew has the same space as longer bodies
• F and J: mid-bodies.  The J replaced the F with several upgrades that some people retrofit to F's.  Both are 200HP Lycomings.  Ample back seat room, may run out of cargo space for a bigger family trip.  The J is probably the most fuel efficient of all the Mooney's.  
• R and S: Long bodies.  Lots of passenger and cargo space.  These are the big engine models with different horsepower versions of the Continental 550

With a family flight you always need to watch useful load.  Some of these may be down to 800 pounds, and a high may be around 1100 pounds.  

Common experience is that a family trip means around 2 hour stretches before the complaints start.  Keep that in mind when planning how much fuel you will really need for a trip.  With training and my obstinance, we do up to 4 hour stretches.  The complaints still start at 2 hours, though.