Never thought it'd be just too darn hot to fly, then summer came.

[Utah20Gflyer]

20 hours ago, EricJ said:

Are you using ice or freeze packs or some combination?    General experience seems to be that freezer packs last longer, which has been my experience as well. 

 

I try to use a solid 10lb block of ice and then fill the rest of the space with normal bagged ice.  Then I add a little liquid water so there is something to be pumped.  I think the solid block lasts longer than a comparable volume of cubed ice, but even a block disappears surprisingly quickly on a hot day. 
 

One thing to consider is that there is more cooling available in a block of ice cooled to 20 F than one that is at 30 F.  The warmer ice melts REALLY quick.  Unfortunately I am at the mercy of whatever gas station I happen to get ice from - the quality of the ice definitely varies.  

[MBDiagMan]

I’m 74 and grew up in Texas.  Didn’t grow up in an air conditioned house or was never in a an air conditioned classroom until I was in college.   I dealt with it then, but it just kills me now.  If I am going to just fly around the area when it’s hot, I do it in by 140 with a high wing.  The Mooney is just a green house.  I’m just a wimp these days. Can’t be due to my age though.

[A64Pilot]

Ice in water at sea level once the ice and water reach 32F will keep the water at 32F, we calibrate as in validate OAT gauges that way. The water will remain at 32F until all the ice melts

There is only so much heat energy that a given weight of ice can absorb before melting, a block will last longer because it’s heavier being solid but as it’s surface area is less than the same weight of cubes it can’t cool as fast. Ice starting at well below 32 doesn’t make much difference because it’s waters phase change from solid to liquid that absorbs so much heat, a cold block of aluminum for example doesn’t cool nearly as much as water ice for example.

You can of course get more weight in a solid block than cubes though, so in the end the block will absorb more heat than the same volume of cubes.

Being a Jim Bob Southerner when working on the farm as a kid we would put a gallon jug of water in the freezer and use it to cool the cooler with lunch in it, plus as the jug melted you had good ice cold drinking water, Maybe 1Gl jugs of water would fit in a B Cool? Of course after the flight just put the jugs back in the freezer for the next flight?

You guys do have a fridge in your hangar I’m sure, where else would you put your beer?

I suspect blue ice etc is the same, it lasts longer because there is an insulating layer of plastic between it and the frozen substance, so it last longer by cooling less, but I bet water ice has a lot more latent heat, if I’m using latent heat correctly

‘Water is a magic substance pretty much no other substance has it ability to absorb heat as much as it does, for example antifreeze in your car reduces pure waters cooling ability, but water freezes of course and causes corrosion, so you give up a little cooling for higher boiling, lower freeze and corrosion protection, but pure water would cool better.

[M20F]

I have an arctic air and put a 3’x3’ chest freezer in the hanger for it.  Works pretty good but my plane has so many leaks the cold air just blows out the back.  The chest freezer thought did prove useful for Klondike bars. 

[Pinecone]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:27 AM, MBDiagMan said:

I’m 74 and grew up in Texas.  Didn’t grow up in an air conditioned house or was never in a an air conditioned classroom until I was in college.   I dealt with it then, but it just kills me now. 

It is called heat acclimation.  If you are in hot temps all the time, your body adjusts.  But now, our houses are air-conditioned. As are out cars, offices, shopping places.

A number of years ago, when my then wife and I had a consulting company, we had a lot of outdoors work.  Spending all day outdoors in the MD heat and humidity, we did not use the house AC in the evenings.  We were fine without it.

 

[EricJ]

58 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

It is called heat acclimation.  If you are in hot temps all the time, your body adjusts.  But now, our houses are air-conditioned. As are out cars, offices, shopping places.

A number of years ago, when my then wife and I had a consulting company, we had a lot of outdoors work.  Spending all day outdoors in the MD heat and humidity, we did not use the house AC in the evenings.  We were fine without it.

 

That's quite a bit different than TX or AZ heat.   In SD, MN, and the various northern climes you're likely to die if you're stuck outside on the cold days in the winter.   In TX, AZ, et al, you're likely to die if you're stuck outside on the hot days in the summer.   I'm hearing the death tolls are already climbing in TX right now.   It's a regular thing here in AZ in the summer, unfortunately.

 

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

That's quite a bit different than TX or AZ heat.   In SD, MN, and the various northern climes you're likely to die if you're stuck outside on the cold days in the winter.   In TX, AZ, et al, you're likely to die if you're stuck outside on the hot days in the summer.   I'm hearing the death tolls are already climbing in TX right now.   It's a regular thing here in AZ in the summer, unfortunately.

Hmm, so the pioneers all died?

How many of those who are dying now have spent most of their time over the last 2 weeks or longer NOT in air conditioning?

Heat acclimation  takes around 10 days to 2 weeks for most people.  And as I stated, current times, people spend minutes in the heat, not most of the day and night.

People are dying with 100 degree heat, but in some industries, workers work in over 120 degree environments.

And then, let's talk about some 3rd world countries where people don't have AC.  Hottest I have experienced is 50C.  Yeap, that was the outside air temperature in July 2019 in Djibouti.   I did not spend much time outside, but the locals did and were not dropping.

And then, to add to that, how many of those dying have ANY clue as to proper hydration?  How many are having a cold beer (alcohol is NOT good for you in the heat)?  How many are drinking about 1 cup of water every 15 minutes?  A Big Gulp every few hours does not cut it.

[EricJ]

Just now, Pinecone said:

Hmm, so the pioneers all died?

Evidently not.   The ones that travelled in harsh conditions often did, though.

Just now, Pinecone said:

How many of those who are dying now have spent most of their time over the last 2 weeks or longer NOT in air conditioning?

Very often the homeless, who don't have access to a/c, perish in the heat.   

Just now, Pinecone said:

Heat acclimation  takes around 10 days to 2 weeks for most people.  And as I stated, current times, people spend minutes in the heat, not most of the day and night.

People are dying with 100 degree heat, but in some industries, workers work in over 120 degree environments.

And then, let's talk about some 3rd world countries where people don't have AC.  Hottest I have experienced is 50C.  Yeap, that was the outside air temperature in July 2019 in Djibouti.   I did not spend much time outside, but the locals did and were not dropping.

And then, to add to that, how many of those dying have ANY clue as to proper hydration?  How many are having a cold beer (alcohol is NOT good for you in the heat)?  How many are drinking about 1 cup of water every 15 minutes?  A Big Gulp every few hours does not cut it.

Usually it is the case where it is not the fittest who perish, it is those who have other issues or ailments or impairments that get aggravated by heat.   This affects a fair chunk of the population, and it also happens in all the places you mentioned.   It is a normal thing for people and animals to die in excessive heat, but it is a solvable problem in a wealthy modern society, so some feel it should be a lot less than it is.   

[N201MKTurbo]

I think you are right, healthy normal people don't die from the heat around here. I think most of the deaths from heat are out of towners who don't know how to drink water. The homeless who die are probably too gorked out on drugs to drink enough water. My step dad was a carpenter. He worked outside all summer and he didn't die, or any of his co-workers. He did take a 5 gallon Igloo cooler of water every day and generally emptied it. In the summer they started work at 4:00 AM and got off at 1:00 PM. 

When I was an international competitive inline speed skater, we did up hill wind sprints after work every Tuesday and Thursday. It wasn't unusual for us to do them in 115 degree heat. Our practice road was 1/2 mile long and went up about 300 feet. (17th Ave in Ahwatukee). We would sprint up that hill as hard as we could go. We tried to get our heart rate so high that we got hypoxic and started to black out at the top of the hill. Our muscles would demand more oxygen then our hearts could supply. We would do it 9 times. We never died. Well Randy did have a heart attack one day, but I don't think the heat had anything to do with it. Randy is OK BTW, but he quit skating.

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, EricJ said:

Evidently not.   The ones that travelled in harsh conditions often did, though.

Very often the homeless, who don't have access to a/c, perish in the heat.   

Usually it is the case where it is not the fittest who perish, it is those who have other issues or ailments or impairments that get aggravated by heat.   This affects a fair chunk of the population, and it also happens in all the places you mentioned.   It is a normal thing for people and animals to die in excessive heat, but it is a solvable problem in a wealthy modern society, so some feel it should be a lot less than it is.   

And how are they hydrating?  And are they hydrating enough?  In hot times, it make take quite a bit of water to make up for losses.  As in gallons of water per day

But yes, those with other issues are at greater risk.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

And how are they hydrating?  And are they hydrating enough?  In hot times, it make take quite a bit of water to make up for losses.  As in gallons of water per day

I've lived in the Phoenix area for more than 35 years, and visited here regularly for about twenty before that.   We're pretty aware of how hydration works here.  We still get deaths in the summer from the heat.  I've had some close calls.   It's no joke.

[A64Pilot]

We lived on a Sailboat for three years, would travel in the Bahamas starting in Nov or so and come back to Fl in July.

We had AC but as it took the generator to run it, we didn’t use it. We were never hot, not until July on the Intercoastal in Fl, and in the Marina in Jax we ran both AC’s all the time.

It wasn’t heat that ran us out of the Bahamas, it was hurricane season, if not for those I think we could have stayed year round and been comfortable.

It wasn’t Tx or Az hot of course but you can acclimate and be more comfortable than you think.

Oh, and I’ve done Kuwait and Iraq in the Summer too, we never got comfortable especially in the uniforms and all the crap we had to wear, but very few died. It’s hotter there than Tx or Az trust me.

If you Google it you fill find that Kuwait City is the hottest city on Earth

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by A64Pilot

[McMooney]

Someting has changed, been working in the hangr @100+,  yesterday i noticed, that except for needing water, i really didn't fell "hot".  wasn't cool like ac or something ust that "feeling" of hot was missing

[EricJ]

5 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Someting has changed, been working in the hangr @100+,  yesterday i noticed, that except for needing water, i really didn't fell "hot".  wasn't cool like ac or something ust that "feeling" of hot was missing

If you're in shade, reasonably hydrated and healthy, the humidity is not bad, and there's even a little breeze through your workspace, it can be very managable.

It was 114F in my backyard yesterday.   Expecting the same or better today. 

[affricate]

Last Tuesday, had a meeting in Chandler, AZ. I live in Tucson, so instead of driving, I decided to fly the Bravo and take an Uber from the airport to the venue. Leaving Chandler, I had to use a towel to control the yolk because it was so hot. Living in AZ, we are used to it. I love to fly, even when it's super hot outside!!!

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, affricate said:

Last Tuesday, had a meeting in Chandler, AZ. I live in Tucson, so instead of driving, I decided to fly the Bravo and take an Uber from the airport to the venue. Leaving Chandler, I had to use a towel to control the yolk because it was so hot. Living in AZ, we are used to it. I love to fly, even when it's super hot outside!!!

Going to lunch the car says 113 today.

We had to find a place with outdoor seating. They keep all the inside seating too cold

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, McMooney said:

Someting has changed, been working in the hangr @100+,  yesterday i noticed, that except for needing water, i really didn't fell "hot".  wasn't cool like ac or something ust that "feeling" of hot was missing

As I have said, you get acclimated.

One way to test your acclimation is to lick your lips as you sweat.  If your sweat tastes salty, you are not acclimated.  One of the changes your body makes is to reduce the salt going out in your sweat.  This also means you don't need to up your salt intake.

Also, avoid sport's drinks.  They are designed for playing sports, not normal work or play.  They are VERY high in electrolytes and also sugar.  I prefer a product called Sqwincher.  They have QuikSticks, where are single serving packets that you dump into a bottle of water.  A lot less sodium, but higher potassium and NO sugar.  One per about 4 hours in the heat are enough.

When I was actively car racing, we dropped 9 flaggers in one season due to heat related issues.  I did a session on heat stress for the flaggers and as of 10 years later, there had been ZERO heat related issues.

Interesting thing, 8 of the 9 that had issues, went down within 45 minutes of drinking a sports drink.  If you do want to drink sport's drinks, drink a cup or so, then drink 4 - 5 cups of water, then another cup of sport's drink.

[Pinecone]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:22 PM, EricJ said:

I've lived in the Phoenix area for more than 35 years, and visited here regularly for about twenty before that.   We're pretty aware of how hydration works here.  We still get deaths in the summer from the heat.  I've had some close calls.   It's no joke.

Really?   How many people do you know that drink a sport's drink (Gatorade, Power Aid, etc) for hydration?

If you or they do, they really don't know about hydration.

My profession for about 40 years has been occupational health and safety.  And heat stress is an area of personal concern.  Early in my career I was on projects where heat related illnesses were an issue, so I have made it an area of concern.

[natdm]

I did my PPL training all in winter mornings here in AZ. My instructor wanted to fly with me once in summer, mid-day, so I could see first hand what the differences were. Dramatically different, especially in AZ. I was thankful she did that so I didn't freak out, it really felt like the plane didn't want to fly, compared to the early morning takeoffs I was used to.

I don't fly in summer here unless it's to leave for the day, which I make as frequent as possible.

[dlthig]

Heat index in Charleston, SC yesterday was 113. 

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, dlthig said:

Heat index in Charleston, SC yesterday was 113. 

We don't need no heat index to get 113!

[Hank]

27 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

We don't need no heat index to get 113!

Your 113° with 5% humidity is much nicer than our 113° with 70%+ humidity. The sweat drips off of you  in literally a couple of minutes. 

[N201MKTurbo]

13 minutes ago, Hank said:

Your 113° with 5% humidity is much nicer than our 113° with 70%+ humidity. The sweat drips off of you  in literally a couple of minutes. 

You are right I'll take our 113 over your 113 any day of the week. 

I went riding with the bike club yesterday morning. we did 25 mi at about 20 MPH. it was about 103 when we were done and I was dry as a bone. No visible sweat, but those three water bottles went somewhere.

[N201MKTurbo]

Back in 02 I did a marathon skate race in Tahiti iti French Polynesia. It was 90 deg F and 90% humidity. I thought I was going to die of heat stroke. This racer Eddie Metzger did the race wearing nothing but a speedo and a straw hat. I was wearing a full  body racing suit. Eddie was much smarter than I was. It is amazing how much insulation 0.01" of spandex provides. Some of the locals would spray you with a garden hose. Now you were just hot and wet, no cooling whatsoever.

[EricJ]

31 minutes ago, Hank said:

Your 113° with 5% humidity is much nicer than our 113° with 70%+ humidity. The sweat drips off of you  in literally a couple of minutes. 

We get a so-called "monsoon" season in the summer when our humidity goes way up, but still not anything like Houston or Florida, etc.