Ovation panel advice

[Tommooney]

Hi everyone:

My artificial horizon is getting slow to spool up so thinking about options and would appreciate any advice. I love my original factory panel i bought new and have flown for 20 years this year.  It is such a dream compared to the1963 Mooney N6740U I learned IFR in the 70's and flew that one all over N America, Canada, Mexica, Bahamas IFR . A whole glass panel just doesn't work for me. I'm in my 60's.

Do I just OH the AH and keep it going? If so, any suggestions on where to OH? I love the kfc225 autopilot coupled to the G530W. It has been flawless and can fly DME arcs, altitudes, the whole flight can be programmed, etc. Its all still working perfectly.

Or, would it be easy to replace the AH with a G5 or Garmin 275 ( or other brand ? ) that would easily interface with the other existing systems  ( KFC225 ) and I maybe delete two vacuum pumps?

Thanks for your advice. keep it under $15K please

[carusoam]

Have you seen the cost to OH the old AI?

Many people have gone with the latest G options to replace just the AI or HSI…

You might be able to pick up a spare AI that has been taken out for a recent upgrade…

Find @Alan Fox for that…

Best regards,

-a-

[Bolter]

The GI275 in place of the AI will "feel" like your analog AI, and support your existing AP.  And you may be able to remove your vacuum system at the same time since your AI may be the last sucker on the panel. 

When I priced things a few years ago, it was around $8k.  Not sure the current market cost now but should be well under $15k.

-dan

[MIm20c]

You’ll need the 275 with third party AP adapter which should cost $5k plus install. I’m pretty sure it can be installed without displaying the speed tapes if you want. You will be able to remove both the primary and backup vacuum system.  In your shoes I’d probably replace the HSI as well with another 275 to gain additional useful load, redundancy, and reliability to your plane.

[LANCECASPER]

What everyone else is saying - get two GI275s. https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-package

You'll need the one with the third party autopilot interface and two back-up batteries ($9184.00).

I would spend the extra $500 to get the Synthetic Vision unlock. https://sarasotaavionics.com/svt-unlock-for-garmin-gi-275

 

[carusoam]

Let’s invite Chris… @Fly_M20R

He has made a few nice videos regarding his O, and the GI-275s…

Best regards,

-a-

[Fly Boomer]

12 hours ago, Tommooney said:

Thanks for your advice. keep it under $15K please

Quite a collection of tablets!  

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

Quite a collection of tablets!  

You are allowed to have 3 devices on a Foreflight subscription, you are not required to have 3 devices . . .lol

[StevenL757]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:54 AM, LANCECASPER said:

What everyone else is saying - get two GI275s. https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gi-275-package

I would spend the extra $500to get the Synthetic Vision unlock. https://sarasotaavionics.com/svt-unlock-for-garmin-gi-275

@Tommooney,

This.

[Schllc]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:16 PM, Tommooney said:

Hi everyone:

My artificial horizon is getting slow to spool up so thinking about options and would appreciate any advice. I love my original factory panel i bought new and have flown for 20 years this year.  It is such a dream compared to the1963 Mooney N6740U I learned IFR in the 70's and flew that one all over N America, Canada, Mexica, Bahamas IFR . A whole glass panel just doesn't work for me. I'm in my 60's.

Do I just OH the AH and keep it going? If so, any suggestions on where to OH? I love the kfc225 autopilot coupled to the G530W. It has been flawless and can fly DME arcs, altitudes, the whole flight can be programmed, etc. Its all still working perfectly.

Or, would it be easy to replace the AH with a G5 or Garmin 275 ( or other brand ? ) that would easily interface with the other existing systems  ( KFC225 ) and I maybe delete two vacuum pumps?

Thanks for your advice. keep it under $15K please

That pic looks like you are enjoying a glass panel!  
 

[Fly_M20R]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:16 PM, Tommooney said:

Hi everyone:

My artificial horizon is getting slow to spool up so thinking about options and would appreciate any advice. I love my original factory panel i bought new and have flown for 20 years this year.  It is such a dream compared to the1963 Mooney N6740U I learned IFR in the 70's and flew that one all over N America, Canada, Mexica, Bahamas IFR . A whole glass panel just doesn't work for me. I'm in my 60's.

Do I just OH the AH and keep it going? If so, any suggestions on where to OH? I love the kfc225 autopilot coupled to the G530W. It has been flawless and can fly DME arcs, altitudes, the whole flight can be programmed, etc. Its all still working perfectly.

Or, would it be easy to replace the AH with a G5 or Garmin 275 ( or other brand ? ) that would easily interface with the other existing systems  ( KFC225 ) and I maybe delete two vacuum pumps?

Thanks for your advice. keep it under $15K please

I would replace your six-pack with dual GI-275’s. The top one being an ADI+AP unit that would also interface and drive your autopilot and the bottom one being either an HSI/Standby ADI or an MFD/Standby ADI. They would work perfectly with your 530 and 430 as well as the autopilot. Not sure if you currently have altitude preselect and if you do how it would interface with the GI 275’s. That would be a question for Garmin. 

I replaced my six-pack with dual 275’s when my King AI got sluggish and eventually tumbled. I also had a GNS530W and KFC150 which worked amazingly well with the 275’s. No regrets whatsoever. After 1-1/2 years I further upgraded to a GTN750 Xi and GFC500. Great functionality with those!

I have several YouTube videos on them including flying an ILS and an RNAV to actual minimums with the 530W, KFC150 and 275’s. Also have a series of three on my decision making process to select the 275’s vs other avionics. The name of my channel is Chris Koppel. Nothing fancy. Enjoy! 

This is the video of the ILS to minimums:

LIFR ILS BELOW MINIMUMS!! Mooney Ovation with GI275's, 530W and KFC150
https://youtu.be/b2FSypF7G2E

This is the one of the RNAV to minimums:

Dual GI-275's - LIFR RNAV 13 approach @ KFHB down to MINIMUMS!!
https://youtu.be/EiSMuxwWZUk

 

 

Chris

[Fly_M20R]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:57 AM, carusoam said:

Let’s invite Chris… @Fly_M20R

He has made a few nice videos regarding his O, and the GI-275s…

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you for the invite Anthony! Posted a reply above.

Chris

[LANCECASPER]

29 minutes ago, Fly_M20R said:

 Not sure if you currently have altitude preselect and if you do how it would interface with the GI 275’s. That would be a question for Garmin. 

 

He has a KFC225, all of which came with altitude pre-select, which is controlled on the KFC225 itself. He would not dial it in on the GI275. He wouldn't lose any functionality of his KFC225.

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/gi275_autopilot_compatibility_c.pdf

[Fly_M20R]

7 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

He has a KFC225, all of which came with altitude pre-select, which is controlled on the KFC225 itself. He would not dial it in on the GI275. He wouldn't lose any functionality of his KFC225.

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/gi275_autopilot_compatibility_c.pdf

Ideally if one enters an altitude for preselect on the KFC225 it would also change the altitude bug on the GI-275 ADI, and vice-versa. Not sure if that is what happens though. If not then he would have to enter the altitude on both units.

[LANCECASPER]

39 minutes ago, Fly_M20R said:

Ideally if one enters an altitude for preselect on the KFC225 it would also change the altitude bug on the GI-275 ADI, and vice-versa. 

That feature is only available on the GFC autopilots.

[hais]

If you want to kick the upgrade can down the road, DM me. We have one sitting on the shelf from our on-going panel upgrade. No idea how much life remains in that thing though. I'd say, the GI275 recommendations above are better.

[Ragsf15e]

Just to piggyback… if you do the AI as a Gi-275 (which is a great idea), also do the hsi.  They have built in redundancy for Attitude and eliminate the zillion moving parts and failure modes in the current hsi.  The 2 gi-275s should be below your $15,000… but probably close.  Do both, do it once, enjoy the airplane for a long time.

[Tommooney]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been in China a couple weeks, and trying to use my phone with vpi is too slow.

I really appreciate all the advice. Now to find an avionic shop. Any recommendations with experience at this with reliable turn around times within a couple hours of SoCal appreciated. I'm assuming i would have to make a few trips for adjustments.

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, Tommooney said:

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been in China a couple weeks, and trying to use my phone with vpi is too slow.

I really appreciate all the advice. Now to find an avionic shop. Any recommendations with experience at this with reliable turn around times within a couple hours of SoCal appreciated. I'm assuming i would have to make a few trips for adjustments.

I had good luck with chandler avionics in PHX.

[Flash]

I'm late to the thread, but you will absolutely love dual GI-275s with your KFC. Thanks to another thread on Mooneyspace, I knew to request a GPSS on-off switch. I highly recommend that.

I've got a KFC-150. The GPSS function is excellent, and being able to turn it on and off by flipping a switch on my panel is very convenient.

[Flash]

Now that I think of it, I remember watching a terrific video by @Fly_M20R showing off his dual GI-275 set-up and saying how much he wished that a GPSS on-off switch was available. Fly_M20R obviously has a lot of pull with Garmin, which thankfully took his advice. 

[rickseeman]

King is scum. When something happens to your AH or HSI their charges to fix those are so close to a G5 install that it will make you want to pull the trigger. Yes, getting rid of the vacuum pumps make you feel high tech. But here's the problem.

You and I are in our 60's. All this new fangled stuff can be overwhelming. It sounds easy. But it ain't. When you plan/do upgrades you never think of the downside. But there is a lot of maintenance/training, recurrent training/maintenance that you're not thinking about. My 96 O has GFC-500 and dual G5's. King was King but now they're scum. So I considered the GFC-500/G5's to be a nice modern upgrade. I have had my O in the avionics shop 5 or 6 times in the last 8 months for GFC-500 or G5 issues. G5 battery, GFC-500 updates, etc. There isn't an avionics shop on my home field so there is traveling. Luckily, my avionics guy is a good man and tries to get it all done while I wait.

So in closing I would say your panel is beautiful. You are comfortable with it. There's something to be said for comfort.