Help! Avionics $***show - how to proceed

[glbtrottr]

What an absolute crap show!

In my opinion the shop hired the manager, the manager acted as their agent, and while the manager embezzled, you are as much of a victim as much as the owner. Since the theft of the item and embezzlement is over $1k, in Georgia it’s a felony charge.

It’s unfortunate that the shop and carrier went down the path of treating the Garmin as stolen property rather than write it off since they understood the situation…the publicity alone makes people go eek and go elsewhere etc. Garmin being a part of this by denying warranty or denying data purchases only compounds the circus.

I’m glad Garmin is involved in trying to help, since they control both price, margin and access…

We would all love to see a resolution happen here …it would go a long way to not avoiding Coke or DLK by any mooney owners hoping to avoid a similar experience or drama…


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[GeeBee]

Georgia has a "theft by deception" law and that is what this is, theft by deception. Money was paid for unit without legal title. You can press charges, but unlikely to get restitution as this miscreant would not be doing theft, if he had money. Maybe he has something you can squeeze out of him, but doubtful and by the time you pay an attorney, the juice is not worth the squeeze. You can try the agency state issue, but the shop and its carrier will claim victim status. 

[1980Mooney]

12 hours ago, goalstop said:

Correct - Georgia

@goalstop - let me first say I hope this awful event doesn't put an end to your passion in flying.  I sense that you are a young aviator and this is your first plane.  You have a really fine plane, are upgrading it and are trying to control your expenses.  You may have another family member involved that technically owns half the plane.

Unfortunately, Georgia is not a state that is interested in protecting consumer rights.  I thought @GeeBee, being from Georgia, was going to highlight a different law - a unique law, unlike most states, that gives businesses the upper hand in situations like this.  

It is called "Theft by Receiving Stolen Property".  The law puts more burden on the "true victim" to prove that they are not accomplices. The law says that someone who buys goods that are stolen can be considered an accomplice and guilty of theft if "they should have known" the goods were stolen.

• "A person commits the offense of theft by receiving stolen property when he receives, disposes of, or retains stolen property which he knows or should know was stolen unless the property is received, disposed of, or retained with intent to restore it to the owner. "

As you point out the Avionics Mgr was stealing from his employer.  He, personally (unbeknownst to you), was selling Garmin boxes that were owned by his employer, the MSC.  He apparently told you this box was direct from Garmin to you (the bill of sale would say Garmin is the seller and you are the buyer).  But in fact the sale transaction was from the Avionics Mgr. to you.  From the MSC perspective it is simple:

• The Garmin GTN650xi, was bought wholesale by the MSC from Garmin,  is on the MSC inventory and is an asset in the MSC name,
• That same GTN650xi is sitting in your plane.
• The MSC never sold it to you (there is no bill of sale, check, Venmo, Zelle, etc between you and the MSC for the box)
• As @GeeBee and @MikeOH point out above it will be "very uncomfortable because you will have to admit the deal was just a little bit out of the ordinary"

This is complicated by the fact that the MSC installed the GTN650xi in your plane.  If you look at the Work Order for the installation (the contract you signed between the MSC and you) I bet it says "Owner Supplied" GTN650xi.  

You point out that this Avionics Mgr. used this scheme to steal $100k from his employer.  The MSC wants its money back.   And this guy is facing Felony criminal charges. 

Yes you were deceived, and you are the victim. But the Georgia law gives the MSC (and their insurance company) more power to claim that they were the "victim" and to make you prove that you were not an accomplice in the scheme. (i.e. the Avionics Mgr "stole" the "wholesale value" of the GTN650xi and you, the alleged "accomplice", "stole" the "retail markup" on the GTN650xi.)

For there to be any criminal consequences against you, the MSC, their Insurance Co and lawyers would have to prove to a jury that you "should know this 'too good to be true' deal was to buy stolen property".  But the problem for you is they don't need to prove it - they can just threaten to.   The lawyers for the Insurance Co, which is already involved, are on the Insurance company payroll - a sunk fixed cost - i.e. it costs the Insurance co nothing incremental to make your life hell with legal expense.  

The Georgia law has a simple solution for the "true victim" buyer (a "don't go to Jail" clause) - you committed no crime if the intent is to restore it to the owner. (see above).  That is why the insurance co wants you to return it to the MSC.  If you play hardball (like some suggest) then the MSC and Insurance Co can threaten legal action - not just civil but criminal.

So the fine state of Georgia leaves the burden in your hands to get your money back - you can press charges against the Avionics Mgr.  Let's think about that:

• He will be using the $100k that he deceived you and others out of to pay for his lawyers in order to try to avoid jail
• Any money he has left most likely will go to the Insurance co and MSC to compensate them for what will now be yellow tagged "used" Garmin equipment that have no warranties.
• If you sue or bring charges against the Avionics Mgr, he will say "get in the back of the line" - "I am broke and have bigger problems than your claim."

What might Garmin do?:

• Void the warranty on these "stolen" boxes
• List the boxes as stolen
• Their transaction and quarrel is with the MSC - poor management, lack of attention to inventory and accounting, incompetence.  
• Garmin may terminate the MSC as an authorized dealer because they have big order book, have plenty of authorized dealers and can easily terminate one.
• But Garmin has no relationship with you because you never bought the GTN650xi from them.

What might Mooney Corp do?

• Nothing - they are struggling to survive and probably have no time or interest to discipline an MSC.

What might you do now?

• You could threaten to expose the MSC which may drive business away (maybe - shops are overloaded with work and plane owners will compromise a lot in order to expedite work)
  • This unfortunately also exposes you which may have repercussions on your own business/career dealings.
• Once the MSC gets their boxes back and insurance proceeds to cover their "used loss in value" then they have no incentive to do anything.
• Perhaps you could follow @GeeBee final suggestion that you offer the "used value" to the insurance co in order to leave it in hour panel.  The problem is that you are now spending additional $$$K and still out the original $12k you paid the criminal Avionics Mgr. for the GTN650xi the first time.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Best case resolution IMHO is to pay the insurance company what they paid the shop and get Garmin to take your SN off the stolen equipment list so you can get updates and service.

I don’t know the (discounted) cost of the Garmin box, but its current value is either zero or 100% depending on whether Garmin will support the box.  The answer to that question will likely inform decisions regarding how to proceed.

[carusoam]

Summary…

1) Possible theft by deception…

2) unfortunately involving an MSC…

 

Let’s send an invite to @Jonny in the event he hasn’t been brought up to speed on this one…

And a big thanks to Kyle for offering to help on the behalf of Big G! 

 

Hang in there GoalStop!  Thanks for sharing your situation!

Best regards,

-a-

[goalstop]

Thank you all for your encouragement.  A quick update - I learned today (according to the shop owner) that the head of maintenance "Intentionally sabotaged my ignition" and "was likely not putting in orders and blocking my calls" to delay the install.  I feel really violated and believe that a lot of the issues I experienced (and paid to fix) over the past year were intentional

I also paid the shop owner for the GPS because I had no other option.  But I'm now out $15k+ for a combination of repairs I didn't expect to have to make and paying for a GPS a second time.  Feels really terrible.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, goalstop said:

Thank you all for your encouragement.  A quick update - I learned today (according to the shop owner) that the head of maintenance "Intentionally sabotaged my ignition" and "was likely not putting in orders and blocking my calls" to delay the install.  I feel really violated and believe that a lot of the issues I experienced (and paid to fix) over the past year were intentional

I also paid the shop owner for the GPS because I had no other option.  But I'm now out $15k+ for a combination of repairs I didn't expect to have to make and paying for a GPS a second time.  Feels really terrible.

Once you are finished with this shop please tell us the former Manager's name - he will no doubt show up to work at another avionics shop and it would be nice to avoid him.

Also it would be nice to know which shop to avoid. To let you absorb all of this isn't right. If the owner is admitting that his shop sabotaged a customer's airplane, I believe that's a federal offense. I wouldn't want that shop to touch my airplane. At the very least his head of maintenance should lose his IA license.

[glbtrottr]

Since the shop owner employed the shop manager and this you sustained loss as a result of his employee, I think you may have a cause of action….but I don’t know


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[ArtVandelay]

Once you are finished with this shop please tell us the former Manager's name - he will no doubt show up to work at another avionics shop and it would be nice to avoid him.
Also it would be nice to know which shop to avoid. To let you absorb all of this isn't right. If the owner is admitting that his shop sabotaged a customer's airplane, I believe that's a federal offense. I wouldn't want that shop to touch my airplane. At the very least his head of maintenance should lose his IA license.

+1, we know it’s in Georgia, for now I’ll avoid the entire state.

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

+1, we know it’s in Georgia, for now I’ll avoid the entire state.

Everyone seems reluctant to get involved in naming and shaming.  Is there a real danger of legal entanglement?  Any examples?

[Scott Ashton]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:55 PM, goalstop said:

+ Purchased GTN650xi directly from the manager of avionics at this Garmin certified avionics shop (late 2021)

+ Manager of avionics said "I can get the unit directly for you from Garmin without going through the shop, so you can avoid the shop markup".  This was the major reason I decided to go with him (markup would have been ~20%)

THe shop probably feels that you conspired with the avionics manager to defraud the shop out of a rightful sale and their earned 20% commission, and sees you as complicit in the fraud against them.   You may not have realized it at the time, but you effectively bought stolen property from the manager in a back door transaction - a situation you created by agreeing to circumvent the avionics shop in the first place.  I’m actually surprised the shop haven’t held your logbooks or your plane until they got paid for the unit.  You will probably have to end up paying the avionics shop for the full price of the unit in order to get clean title to it, and move on.   Maybe you can initiate criminal action against the shop manager, but that will get messy because of your involvement in the transaction to begin with…

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, glbtrottr said:

Since the shop owner employed the shop manager and this you sustained loss as a result of his employee, I think you may have a cause of action….but I don’t know


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Agreed.  The shop owner should have discounted the GPS for the other work that was not required, as that was in his shop with his employee.

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, Scott Ashton said:

THe shop probably feels that you conspired with the avionics manager to defraud the shop out of a rightful sale and their earned 20% commission, and sees you as complicit in the fraud against them.   You may not have realized it at the time, but you effectively bought stolen property from the manager in a back door transaction - a situation you created by agreeing to circumvent the avionics shop in the first place.  I’m actually surprised the shop haven’t held your logbooks or your plane until they got paid for the unit.  You will probably have to end up paying the avionics shop for the full price of the unit in order to get clean title to it, and move on.   Maybe you can initiate criminal action against the shop manager, but that will get messy because of your involvement in the transaction to begin with…

Uuh, he did that.

[Scott Ashton]

59 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Uuh, he did that.

Yeah I see that now.  What a crappy situation all the way around for everyone involved....

[RoundTwo]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

+1, we know it’s in Georgia, for now I’ll avoid the entire state.

Based on what I’ve heard from the local rumor mill, this happened near me. It’s safe to say you only need to be concerned about shops under the ATL Bravo, NW of Hartsfield.

[1980Mooney]

15 hours ago, goalstop said:

Thank you all for your encouragement.  A quick update - I learned today (according to the shop owner) that the head of maintenance "Intentionally sabotaged my ignition" and "was likely not putting in orders and blocking my calls" to delay the install.  I feel really violated and believe that a lot of the issues I experienced (and paid to fix) over the past year were intentional

I also paid the shop owner for the GPS because I had no other option.  But I'm now out $15k+ for a combination of repairs I didn't expect to have to make and paying for a GPS a second time.  Feels really terrible.

In your first post you said you were dealing with "the manager of avionics at this Garmin certified avionics shop".  Here you say "the head of maintenance "Intentionally sabotaged my ignition" - that would Airframe and Engine maintenance.  Are you saying this is the same person? - some one that is over all maintenance both Avionics and A&E?  Or are these 2 different people at the same Mooney Service Center? 

[goalstop]

10 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

In your first post you said you were dealing with "the manager of avionics at this Garmin certified avionics shop".  Here you say "the head of maintenance "Intentionally sabotaged my ignition" - that would Airframe and Engine maintenance.  Are you saying this is the same person? - some one that is over all maintenance both Avionics and A&E?  Or are these 2 different people at the same Mooney Service Center? 

Same person. Sorry for lack of clarity

[1980Mooney]

8 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

THe shop probably feels that you conspired with the avionics manager to defraud the shop out of a rightful sale and their earned 20% commission, and sees you as complicit in the fraud against them.   You may not have realized it at the time, but you effectively bought stolen property from the manager in a back door transaction - a situation you created by agreeing to circumvent the avionics shop in the first place.  I’m actually surprised the shop haven’t held your logbooks or your plane until they got paid for the unit.  You will probably have to end up paying the avionics shop for the full price of the unit in order to get clean title to it, and move on.   Maybe you can initiate criminal action against the shop manager, but that will get messy because of your involvement in the transaction to begin with…

 

5 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

Yeah I see that now.  What a crappy situation all the way around for everyone involved....

You are right that this is a crappy situation all the way around for an enthusiastic new owner.  And you are exactly right in your assessment.  Although some here suggest that the employee is an agent of the shop and the shop legally at fault, Georgia laws make it harder for the victim to prove because

• He bought the GTN650xi from the Manager directly - no transaction with the Shop
• Georgia "In possession of stolen property" laws, which makes it a crime to buy stolen property, intentionally puts more burden on the victim to prove that they were an "unwitting" accomplice. 

Yes with enough time and money spent on lawyers the victim might win a "deceptive sale" case against the former Shop Manager (and not the shop).  But he will likely spend $15k+ to win a $15k settlement - which the former Shop Manager likely will not be able to pay.  Money spent on lawyers is usually money down the rat hole.

Unfortunately, like @LANCECASPER and @MikeOH highlight, this is a difficult "life lesson" which we could all have fallen victim to early as we first grappled with the cost of maintaining/upgrading our first plane.  Also as @ArtVandelay says a good reason to avoid doing business in Georgia, both for the crappy MSC and the crappy Georgia anti-consumer protection laws. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[GeeBee]

Ok, now that you are square with the shop and the insurer, their turn in the barrel.

1. File suit in small claims court for the damage and fraudulent repairs. The maximum is 10, 000 dollars. No lawyers required. Put the shop in the position of defending their larcenous manager. A good part of your case is..."If he was honest in the repairs on your airplane, why did the shop fire him and place insurance claims for his malfeasance?

2. File another claim against the shop in small claims that should they get any insurance proceeds or in any way recover from their manager's malfeasance with you on the Garmin unit, you get the money. You paid them and squared away the problem, you're now entitled to any recovery

3. File a similar claim against the insurance company. Since you paid off the unit, any recovery of funds is now rightfully yours.

Remember one thing. The mother stopped Solomon from splitting the baby, because she was very certain he would split the baby. Leave them no doubt either.

[Bolter]

14 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Ok, now that you are square with the shop and the insurer, their turn in the barrel.

1. File suit in small claims court for the damage and fraudulent repairs. The maximum is 10, 000 dollars. No lawyers required. Put the shop in the position of defending their larcenous manager. A good part of your case is..."If he was honest in the repairs on your airplane, why did the shop fire him and place insurance claims for his malfeasance?

2. File another claim against the shop in small claims that should they get any insurance proceeds or in any way recover from their manager's malfeasance with you on the Garmin unit, you get the money. You paid them and squared away the problem, you're now entitled to any recovery

3. File a similar claim against the insurance company. Since you paid off the unit, any recovery of funds is now rightfully yours.

Remember one thing. The mother stopped Solomon from splitting the baby, because she was very certain he would split the baby. Leave them no doubt either.

Before Step 1, be sure you have documentation from the shop owner stating that you are square.  I think a signed letter stating ALL items predating 1-March-2023 (or whatever date) are paid in full, would be useful.  Or add that statement to the last receipt.  They could start inventing open items in defense of any small claims or lawsuit.

Just my 2 cents... Not a lawyer...

[JayMatt]

It sounds like there are communications with the shop owner. If he's coming clean about an employee sabotaging your plane, I would assume ya'll could work something out between each other. It's really hard to be empathetic when you're getting screwed but sometimes a calm heart to heart conversation about how you two move forward will produce the best results. Keep in mind that the b-head in the whole situation screwed both of you. If the guy wants to stay in business he'd be smart to work out a deal with you. If he doesn't and he's a b-head also, I'd explore more appropriate actions over the sabotage of your airplane, tho that may be hard to prove. 

[1980Mooney]

57 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

.1. File suit in small claims court for the damage and fraudulent repairs….Put the shop in the position of defending their larcenous manager. A good part of your case is..."If he was honest in the repairs on your airplane, why did the shop fire him and place insurance claims for his malfeasance?

I think the insurance claim was for the GTN650xi that was on the asset ledger for the MSC - which the mgr stole and sold to the OP.  - Has nothing to do with service.

If you go to court I suspect the first thing the judge will ask the OP is "if you were honest why did you think you could buy that Garmin box for 20% less than the MSC was selling it for and 20% less than everyone else has to pay for the same thing at the MSC where you had it installed?"   As others have said this will be very uncomfortable for the OP.

And if the MSC recovers any loses from 3rd parties like the OP (the OP said he paid the shop directly and not to the insurance co.) then it is the Insurance company that has a right to claw back settlements they made with/paid to the shop - The OP has no claim or right with the insurance company settlement - as they say "follow the money" - the settlement is only between the MSC and their insurance company.

Edited March 14, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Ok, now that you are square with the shop and the insurer, their turn in the barrel.

1. File suit in small claims court for the damage and fraudulent repairs. The maximum is 10, 000 dollars. No lawyers required. Put the shop in the position of defending their larcenous manager. A good part of your case is..."If he was honest in the repairs on your airplane, why did the shop fire him and place insurance claims for his malfeasance?

2. File another claim against the shop in small claims that should they get any insurance proceeds or in any way recover from their manager's malfeasance with you on the Garmin unit, you get the money. You paid them and squared away the problem, you're now entitled to any recovery

3. File a similar claim against the insurance company. Since you paid off the unit, any recovery of funds is now rightfully yours.

Remember one thing. The mother stopped Solomon from splitting the baby, because she was very certain he would split the baby. Leave them no doubt either.

Small claims are not just magic buttons you can push for free money.  You have to convince a judge you have a valid claim, and judges are really not going to look favorably on you for either missing, or willingly going along with, an obvious scam. Judges will also not appreciate you filing multiple claims (especially if they see them as frivolous) about the same thing. The legal “advice” you’re getting here is worth what you paid for it, and even well-intentioned attempts to help (like GeeBee’s here) do not constitute sound legal advice. That advice might work for GeeBee if he was in your shoes but for you, it might not. Take the life lesson and think long and hard before taking any steps that could backfire and make this even worse for you. 

I really didn’t want to weigh in here but I would hate to see you compound your mistakes by pursuing litigation (!) without getting solid advice first. Not from me, not from some guys on the internet, but from a competent attorney licensed in your jurisdiction. 

[goalstop]

4 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Small claims are not just magic buttons you can push for free money.  You have to convince a judge you have a valid claim, and judges are really not going to look favorably on you for either missing, or willingly going along with, an obvious scam. Judges will also not appreciate you filing multiple claims (especially if they see them as frivolous) about the same thing. The legal “advice” you’re getting here is worth what you paid for it, and even well-intentioned attempts to help (like GeeBee’s here) do not constitute sound legal advice. That advice might work for GeeBee if he was in your shoes but for you, it might not. Take the life lesson and think long and hard before taking any steps that could backfire and make this even worse for you. 

I really didn’t want to weigh in here but I would hate to see you compound your mistakes by pursuing litigation (!) without getting solid advice first. 

I am leaning toward this answer.  There is a point at which cutting my losses and turning the other cheek is the right way to proceed.  As much as I'm frustrated by this all, I don't need any more headache and potential of things backfiring.  I'm planning to do whatever is needed to cooperate with the investigation against the mechanic himself, get any sort of support from Garmin that I can, and leave it at that.  I can also admit when I don't have a recourse with the shop (with the GPS money paid to the crook employee) and let it go... no point bashing my head against a wall.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, JayMatt said:

It sounds like there are communications with the shop owner. If he's coming clean about an employee sabotaging your plane, I would assume ya'll could work something out between each other. It's really hard to be empathetic when you're getting screwed but sometimes a calm heart to heart conversation about how you two move forward will produce the best results. Keep in mind that the b-head in the whole situation screwed both of you. If the guy wants to stay in business he'd be smart to work out a deal with you. If he doesn't and he's a b-head also, I'd explore more appropriate actions over the sabotage of your airplane, tho that may be hard to prove. 

 

20 minutes ago, goalstop said:

I am leaning toward this answer.  There is a point at which cutting my losses and turning the other cheek is the right way to proceed.  As much as I'm frustrated by this all, I don't need any more headache and potential of things backfiring.  I'm planning to do whatever is needed to cooperate with the investigation against the mechanic himself, get any sort of support from Garmin that I can, and leave it at that.  I can also admit when I don't have a recourse with the shop (with the GPS money paid to the crook employee) and let it go... no point bashing my head against a wall.

In addition to @ZuluZulu s suggestions there is also some merit in @JayMatts.  If the shop owner is talking to you then there is a chance he may work with you to square things in the future - maybe comp some work.  As said you and he are both victims of the ex-shop manager.  If you go to court then there will be bad blood between you and the shop forever.  And I don't see much that Garmin can do other than take your GTN650xi off of the "stolen list" and reinstate your warranty.   WIsh you better luck in the future