Airvents - pireps requested

[FlyingDude]

Hello,

Anyone ever used these ACS airvents?  Any pireps?  There are too few reviews and they vary from great to sucks, so I wanted to ask here.  Thanks everyone.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/05-00787.php

 

[Marc_B]

6 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

They are too few reviews and they are varying from great to sucks

Don’t you mean “from great to blows”?? 

[1964-M20E]

Haven't actually used the one you asked about but I do have one.  I like these better but they are more $$.

 

[FlyingDude]

10 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Haven't actually used the one you asked about but I do have one.  I like these better but they are more $$.

It shows that a 337 field approval is needed...  Too much work for just an air vent

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

It shows that a 337 field approval is needed...  Too much work for just an air vent

Wack.   I don't see how that's anything but a minor mod.   

[Hank]

44 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Wack.   I don't see how that's anything but a minor mod.   

You and me both. The FARs describe the requirements to be a Major Mod, which requires a 337, then says everything else is a Minor Mod to be approved and installed by your A&P. But some A&Ps still insist that anything without an STC requires a 337 . . . .

[FlyingDude]

7 hours ago, EricJ said:

Wack.   I don't see how that's anything but a minor mod.   

That's what it says on the aircraft spruce page... 

[EricJ]

55 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

That's what it says on the aircraft spruce page... 

I know but I don't see any basis for that statement.   Maybe the competitor of the manufacturer talked them into to putting that on there.

 

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

That's what it says on the aircraft spruce page... 

Aircraft Spruce is not the final word on whether or not something needs a 337 or any other kind of approval- they say that to cover their butts from the FAA accusing them of selling uncertified parts.

The final authority is the A&P who agrees that it is a minor modification, that the parts do not affect airworthiness, and that the installation is satisfactory and airworthy.

[FlyingDude]

So how do you determine if something is airworthy? That it can be used in a certified aircraft?

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

So how do you determine if something is airworthy? That it can be used in a certified aircraft?

That's not gonna get fully sorted out in an internet thread, and leads to lots of disagreement, argument, ruined relationships, bad weather, etc.  If you own a certified aircraft, your IA's opinion is the one that really matters.

[jaylw314]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's not gonna get fully sorted out in an internet thread, and leads to lots of disagreement, argument, ruined relationships, bad weather, etc.  If you own a certified aircraft, your IA's opinion is the one that really matters.

Well, I suppose it's actually the whim of the local FSDO that matters, but luckily it would rarely come to that  

[PT20J]

16 hours ago, EricJ said:

I know but I don't see any basis for that statement.   Maybe the competitor of the manufacturer talked them into to putting that on there.

 

I looked and it actually says Not FAA Approved. 337 field approval required for certified installation. So, my guess is that the manufacturer doesn't have a PMA.

[EricJ]

18 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I looked and it actually says Not FAA Approved. 337 field approval required for certified installation. So, my guess is that the manufacturer doesn't have a PMA.

Presence or lack of a PMA doesn't determine whether it's a major mod or not, which is the criterion for whether a 337 is required.   I think it may just be a poorly-supervised comment made by whoever put that particular page together.   

[FlyingDude]

"whatever IA / FSDO says" is not truly an answer. I don't expect big matters to be resolved here or on Facebook for that matter. 

Major alteration is anything that changes flight characteristics or performance. Like surefly, autopilot, lasar speed mods, etc. 

Minor alterations are stuff that don't change how the plane behaves. Removing ashtrays, removing loudspeaker, replacing air vents, etc. No need for 337 but you need "documents". What are those documents?

Unless you're piercing the skin, you don't need a 337 for an air vent. But can I install a BMW air vent on my Mooney? What's the decision thought process when it comes to deciding what goes in and what doesn't? How do IAs and FSDOs think?

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Presence or lack of a PMA doesn't determine whether it's a major mod or not, which is the criterion for whether a 337 is required.   I think it may just be a poorly-supervised comment made by whoever put that particular page together.   

I wasn't thinking major or minor, but that a field approval might be required to install an unapproved part. Spruce sells a lot of unapproved parts to homebuilders. I agree, however, that this is overkill. For something like this where you are replacing a factory part with another equivalent part it doesn't even seem to be a modification. Like when I replaced my fuel tank drains which I logged as preventive maintenance.

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

"whatever IA / FSDO says" is not truly an answer. I don't expect big matters to be resolved here or on Facebook for that matter. 

Major alteration is anything that changes flight characteristics or performance. Like surefly, autopilot, lasar speed mods, etc. 

Minor alterations are stuff that don't change how the plane behaves. Removing ashtrays, removing loudspeaker, replacing air vents, etc. No need for 337 but you need "documents". What are those documents?

In this case a logbook entry in the airframe logbook.  imho, anyway.

6 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Unless you're piercing the skin, you don't need a 337 for an air vent. But can I install a BMW air vent on my Mooney? What's the decision thought process when it comes to deciding what goes in and what doesn't? How do IAs and FSDOs think?

Lots of people have put automotive or home-made or generically-sourced gaspers and vents and diffusers in their Mooneys.   There are a number of threads here with descriptions and photos.   Those are generally done with a logbook entry.

On the other hand there are those who insist everything that touches a certified airplane has to be PMA and any deviation from the original parts list is a major alteration (I'm exaggerating, but not a lot for some).   There are sun visors for Mooneys that have an STC and there are some very popular and well-made sun visors that are essentially hand-made by a member here.   

What answer you get on what is "the right way to do it" will depend highly on who you ask.   You may get very different answers depending on what FSDO office you ask.    For you, the guy that signs your annual off every year is the guy that matters, as he's the one who's gonna sign off your airplane as airworthy and conformant to the Type Certificate.   Opinions can vary widely among them as well, so the guy that signs your logbooks is the important one.

[1980Mooney]

There has been a lot of discussion about whether this is a minor mod, need a 337, field approval, just a log entry or "the right way to do it".  But no one has answered the OP's original question.

Is there even a remote chance that these ACS eyeball vents could take the place of the Mooney Wemac vents?   

1. The Wemac (pic below from Ebay ad that said it came from a M20E like the OP lists in profile) consists of a eyeball vent in a raised housing that is canted towards the pilot or copilot. It mounts flush against the cabin intake channel.  It doesn't protrude out. The interior panel goes over the raised housing it followed by a trim ring. 
2. The ACS protrudes out the back of the eyeball by about 1.2 inches.  It is not canted - it will be limited in its range to direct airflow on the pilot.  It looks like a larger hole will need to be cut in the cabin air intake channel to allow the ACS eyeball housing to mount.  Once mounted it will stick out into the air channel - it may block airflow..