Dogfighting an EA-18G

[PT20J]

I was out fooling around when I got a TRAFFIC! call from the G3X and looked out to see a Navy EA-18 Growler about 5 miles out at my 1 o'clock and crossing my flight path. It was going pretty slow and appeared heading back to base at Whidbey NAS. So, I turned with it to keep my nose on it and as it passed it banked hard right, so I banked right to keep it on my nose and then it banked hard left and so I banked left and then it banked right again and I lost sight of it as it flew out of range. Was the pilot just fooling around or did he know I was there and was messing with me? I don't know. But I had him in my "sights" and if I'd had missiles...

[carusoam]

He looks heavy… and a bit draggy…

I think you could have caught up if you tried…    
 

Yet has two empty hard mounts available for more…
 

Looks like he has three generator props spinning…?

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

31 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I was out fooling around when I got a TRAFFIC! call from the G3X and looked out to see a Navy EA-18 Growler about 5 miles out at my 1 o'clock and crossing my flight path. It was going pretty slow and appeared heading back to base at Whidbey NAS. So, I turned with it to keep my nose on it and as it passed it banked hard right, so I banked right to keep it on my nose and then it banked hard left and so I banked left and then it banked right again and I lost sight of it as it flew out of range. Was the pilot just fooling around or did he know I was there and was messing with me? I don't know. But I had him in my "sights" and if I'd had missiles...

Ha! That’s awesome! Well he was either messing around with you or ATC was frantically giving him traffic calls?  I have to say, a Mooney nose on at 5 miles is pretty tough to see!

Were you on the same ATC frequency as him?  A quick “Fox 2!” Call from a few miles (Aim-9 missile shot) or “Tracking!” From closer (guns) would be appropriate and appreciated…

[PT20J]

5 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha! That’s awesome! Well he was either messing around with you or ATC was frantically giving him traffic calls?  I have to say, a Mooney nose on at 5 miles is pretty tough to see!

Were you on the same ATC frequency as him?  A quick “Fox 2!” Call from a few miles (Aim-9 missile shot) or “Tracking!” From closer (guns) would be appropriate and appreciated…

I was outside Whidbey's airspace so I wasn't on frequency and the jets are always on UHF so I only hear the ground side of their communications. It's more fun to pretend to be Maverick when they aren't shooting back at you!

[A64Pilot]

The three generator props are self powered jammer pods, some of the Jammers pull enormous amounts of power. Their capabilities are if believed not much short of magic.

The EF-111 I was around years ago instead of a Master Armament switch, had a Master Radiate switch, the lead underwear joke was on partially a joke

[N201MKTurbo]

Back in 79 I worked for the county maintaining its microwave system. I was always out in the boonies. One day I was coming back from the top of the White Tank mountains and looked up and saw a crop duster having a dog fight with an F15 from Luke AFB. I pulled over and watched the show. It went on for about 5 minutes. The duster was at full speed and the F15 was near stall. If the crop duster had guns the F15 would be toast.

[PT20J]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Back in 79 I worked for the county maintaining its microwave system. I was always out in the boonies. One day I was coming back from the top of the White Tank mountains and looked up and saw a crop duster having a dog fight with an F15 from Luke AFB. I pulled over and watched the show. It went on for about 5 minutes. The duster was at full speed and the F15 was near stall. If the crop duster had guns the F15 would be toast.

I would have bought tickets for that!

[Ragsf15e]

35 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Back in 79 I worked for the county maintaining its microwave system. I was always out in the boonies. One day I was coming back from the top of the White Tank mountains and looked up and saw a crop duster having a dog fight with an F15 from Luke AFB. I pulled over and watched the show. It went on for about 5 minutes. The duster was at full speed and the F15 was near stall. If the crop duster had guns the F15 would be toast.

The F-15 turns very slowly and has a very big turn circle below 200kts.  At 100kts, it’s all you can do to keep it from falling out of the sky.  Fighting a crop duster would be aweful.  Fighting an A-10 was bad enough.  I did it a few times and the plan was usually to merge around 450 knots unloading whatever weapons you could get locked (heat or radar), then pull up “into the vertical” and run for your life.  The only place they couldn’t point that damn gun was straight up.  If you lived, you had to sneak away and make another fast pass.   Trying to turn with one usually ended quickly and was embarrassing.  I over g’d on the pullup on my first A-10 merge.  Also embarrassing.

We did practice fighting each other very slow though.  Actually that can happen in a normal dogfight kind of like in the original Top Gun - “Hit the brakes and he’ll fly right by!”  Anyway, you can end up parked right next to the other guy, 90kts each, full afterburner, about 40 degrees aoa, burning fuel like nobody’s business. Slight rudder weave to make a longer flight path, hold the nose up and hope the other guy doesn’t fly perfect.  Often those were a draw.  In combat, it could end when a wingman shows up, one gets an advantage, someone tries to leave (and dies), or one runs out of gas.

[carusoam]

The fun part of MS…

People sharing their work experiences!

Some jobs are truly exciting!

Thanks for sharing the details!

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha! That’s awesome! Well he was either messing around with you or ATC was frantically giving him traffic calls?  I have to say, a Mooney nose on at 5 miles is pretty tough to see!

Were you on the same ATC frequency as him?  A quick “Fox 2!” Call from a few miles (Aim-9 missile shot) or “Tracking!” From closer (guns) would be appropriate and appreciated…

LMAO 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

The F-15 turns very slowly and has a very big turn circle below 200kts.  At 100kts, it’s all you can do to keep it from falling out of the sky.  Fighting a crop duster would be aweful.  Fighting an A-10 was bad enough.  I did it a few times and the plan was usually to merge around 450 knots unloading whatever weapons you could get locked (heat or radar), then pull up “into the vertical” and run for your life.  The only place they couldn’t point that damn gun was straight up.  If you lived, you had to sneak away and make another fast pass.   Trying to turn with one usually ended quickly and was embarrassing.  I over g’d on the pullup on my first A-10 merge.  Also embarrassing.

We did practice fighting each other very slow though.  Actually that can happen in a normal dogfight kind of like in the original Top Gun - “Hit the brakes and he’ll fly right by!”  Anyway, you can end up parked right next to the other guy, 90kts each, full afterburner, about 40 degrees aoa, burning fuel like nobody’s business. Slight rudder weave to make a longer flight path, hold the nose up and hope the other guy doesn’t fly perfect.  Often those were a draw.  In combat, it could end when a wingman shows up, one gets an advantage, someone tries to leave (and dies), or one runs out of gas.

Yes, the F15 was struggling and the duster was having a ball.

[carusoam]

Nothing like seeing videos of fighter jets intercepting mis-guided GA planes that have entered TFRs…

Their AOA is huge while keeping station….

-a-

[Hank]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Nothing like seeing videos of fighter jets intercepting mis-guided GA planes that have entered TFRs…

Their AOA is huge while keeping station….

-a-

Reminds me of a Ron Machado tale, where one if his students was intercepted because the R-space altitude had a crease through it on his sectional. His 152 was intercepted by an F-4 in the Vietnam era.

In his confusion, the student remembered Rod's advice:  when you are confused, slow down and think it through. 

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

The F-15 turns very slowly and has a very big turn circle below 200kts.  At 100kts, it’s all you can do to keep it from falling out of the sky.  Fighting a crop duster would be aweful.  Fighting an A-10 was bad enough.  I did it a few times and the plan was usually to merge around 450 knots unloading whatever weapons you could get locked (heat or radar), then pull up “into the vertical” and run for your life.  The only place they couldn’t point that damn gun was straight up.  If you lived, you had to sneak away and make another fast pass.   Trying to turn with one usually ended quickly and was embarrassing.  I over g’d on the pullup on my first A-10 merge.  Also embarrassing.

We did practice fighting each other very slow though.  Actually that can happen in a normal dogfight kind of like in the original Top Gun - “Hit the brakes and he’ll fly right by!”  Anyway, you can end up parked right next to the other guy, 90kts each, full afterburner, about 40 degrees aoa, burning fuel like nobody’s business. Slight rudder weave to make a longer flight path, hold the nose up and hope the other guy doesn’t fly perfect.  Often those were a draw.  In combat, it could end when a wingman shows up, one gets an advantage, someone tries to leave (and dies), or one runs out of gas.

You are a smart man.  We "shot down" MANY F-15 guys that thought they could turn with us (A-10 guy).  But a corner velocity of 325 makes for tight and fast turning aircraft.

The way I found a fight got slow is if it went neutral and into a vertical scissors, as you each try to pull to the other guy's high-6.  One of my defensive rides at LIFT in the AT-38B, a merge did this, and then I saw the stab on the other aircraft flopping back and forth with no nose movement, I rotated out of the fight and took off 45 nose low, inverted and hit about 0.99 MACH.   From defensive, a clean separate is a WIN.

That was a fun ride.  We were make on initial with Min Fuel and logged a 0.7.  Nothing like burning a LOT of gas in a short period of time.

[Ibra]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

He looks heavy… and a bit draggy…

I think you could have caught up if you tried…    
 

Yet has two empty hard mounts available for more…
 

Looks like he has three generator props spinning…?

-a-

That looks about the drag index of Cessna Skylane  challenge accepted in Mooney with zero drag index, guns only ! 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ibra

[Pinecone]

You always honor a threat.

We were coming off the range near Atlantic City NJ in a two ship of A-10s.  And a light twin was cruising by.  He rolled in on us.  So we responded with hard turn into the threat, then rocked our wings.  This is the low altitude ROE for training threat response.  It shows you saw and responding but keeps planes from hitting the ground being more aggressive.

He responded by pulling off and rocking his wings.  I don't know about him, but I was grinning.

No idea who it was, but they obviously had some fighter experience.